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Stormlight - Chemistry, Physics, or Simply Magic?


Dawnbearer

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2 hours ago, Bookish Ocelot said:

Perhaps the heat from the compressed air is used to form the blade?

If blades formes from air, then they should be hot after forming, as when you compress air, it becomes hotter. Also, there should be a lot of wind generated, because of the sudden comperssion of air, the reverse of what happened in TWoK:

Spoiler

When Jasnah turned the big rock in Kharbranth into air.

 

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3 hours ago, Bookish Ocelot said:

Can you link the WoB? 

Quote

Alteroden

With Stormlight, the better the gem is cut, the less Stormlight it leaks, and the longer it holds its charge. If a gem was perfectly cut, on a molecular scale, would it leak Stormlight at all?

Brandon Sanderson

In a theoretical flawless gem, then no it would not.

Alteroden

Would it actually give off light?

Brandon Sanderson

[...] Theoretically no it would not, but it's not what you're thinking...

Alteroden

No no no, that’s not what I’m thinking, I figured that’s something totally different.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, actually, it probably would still give off light, because it's drawing out of the Spiritual Realm. So I’d say it still lights, but it doesn't leak. The leaking is not where the illumination is coming from. The illumination is coming from a direct... It's basically a light bulb screwed into the Spiritual Realm.

Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015)

 

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7 minutes ago, Karger said:

Khriss's essay if I remember correctly.

Quote

The showpiece of the system is, of course, the middle planet of Roshar itself. At 0.7 cosmere standard in gravitation and 0.9 in size—and possessing a high-oxygen environment—Roshar is home to a diverse and unique ecology containing dramatic megafauna and fascinating symbiotic relationships between creatures (both humanoid and not) and Splinters of Investiture.

That's the only bit that mentions its variance from Cosmere Standard.

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Just now, Karger said:

Hm.  So I suppose it is the same pressure just different distribution. 

I would guess that its pressure is a bit less, due to the lesser gravity. But probably not enough to be noticeable.

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Just now, RShara said:

I would guess that its pressure is a bit less, due to the lesser gravity. But probably not enough to be noticeable.

Maybe?  Gasses compress pretty easily.  If Adonalsium added a lot it would probably compress itself and it would take a while to evaporate. 

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3 minutes ago, Karger said:

Maybe?  Gasses compress pretty easily.  If Adonalsium added a lot it would probably compress itself and it would take a while to evaporate. 

Yeah, it's hard to say. Without outside interference, though, it should be a bit less.

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Just now, RShara said:

Yeah, it's hard to say. Without outside interference, though, it should be a bit less.

Unfortunately the whole planet is artificial so we have no way to know for sure. 

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1 hour ago, RShara said:

I'm curious about where Roshar's atmosphere is denser than Earth's comes from?

It probably came from the Rosharan oxygen/megafauna Arcanum Unbounded info and WoBs

https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=atmospheric%2BRoshar&date_from=1998-04-10&date_to=2020-05-01&speaker=&ordering=rank

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23 minutes ago, R J said:

It probably came from the Rosharan oxygen/megafauna Arcanum Unbounded info and WoBs

https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=atmospheric%2BRoshar&date_from=1998-04-10&date_to=2020-05-01&speaker=&ordering=rank

Those all talk about higher oxygen content, which does not actually mean a denser atmosphere :)

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4 hours ago, BobyVass said:

If blades formes from air, then they should be hot after forming, as when you compress air, it becomes hotter. Also, there should be a lot of wind generated, because of the sudden comperssion of air, the reverse of what happened in TWoK:

  Reveal hidden contents

When Jasnah turned the big rock in Kharbranth into air.

 

No, I meant that it uses the energy from the heat generated to form the blade somehow. 

 

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10 hours ago, Bookish Ocelot said:

Perhaps the heat from the compressed air is used to form the blade? If the blades automatically pull from the surrounding air's heat, they could (in theory) draw enough out to form frost. 

Questioner

Why does Stormlight make things cold?

Brandon Sanderson

It’s not the Stormlight, it’s condensation because something is going directly from a gas into a solid. The coldness is caused by that, it’s not necessarily that the Stormlight is making things cold, but that the Shardblade is condensing.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)
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1 hour ago, Eternal Khol said:

Questioner

Why does Stormlight make things cold?

Brandon Sanderson

It’s not the Stormlight, it’s condensation because something is going directly from a gas into a solid. The coldness is caused by that, it’s not necessarily that the Stormlight is making things cold, but that the Shardblade is condensing.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

Wait... condensation is exothermic. Something's not right here.

Edit: Also, going from a gas to a solid is actually deposition. It's exothermic too.

Edited by ChickenLiberty
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25 minutes ago, ChickenLiberty said:

Wait... condensation is exothermic. Something's not right here.

Edit: Also, going from a gas to a solid is actually deposition. It's exothermic too.

So, wait... Stormlight solidifies at... Higher... temperatures...?? I gueeeesss??

Or, wait... No that doesn't make sense... And not just for the obvious. ...I got nothin. :blink:

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17 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

Questioner

Why does Stormlight make things cold?

Brandon Sanderson

It’s not the Stormlight, it’s condensation because something is going directly from a gas into a solid. The coldness is caused by that, it’s not necessarily that the Stormlight is making things cold, but that the Shardblade is condensing.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

Interesting. That makes sense. Except that condensation is exothermic, so it should be hotter. 

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16 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said:

Wait... condensation is exothermic. Something's not right here.

Edit: Also, going from a gas to a solid is actually deposition. It's exothermic too.

Right, unless we are seeing the necessary cooling. So the cooling is not a result but a precondition.

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3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Right, unless we are seeing the necessary cooling. So the cooling is not a result but a precondition.

I mean we know that Investiture or at least an Invested Art can alter an object's temperature
[Mistborn]

Spoiler

Brass Feruchemy

so it's possible that a similar underlying principle is being used to condense it into solid form.

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3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Right, unless we are seeing the necessary cooling. So the cooling is not a result but a precondition.

In which case the question is: where does the heat go? Into the bearer? The Blade? The Spiritual Realm? Shadesmar? Converted to extra Investiture?

What's happening while summoning a Shardblade seems kind of complicated now. First, the spren gets pulled into the Physical Realm, manifesting as a gas, then something cools down the gas enough to depose. After that, it somehow remains a solid without being constantly cooled, even though its natural form seems to be as a gas. Finally, the spren goes back into Shadesmar, but it does not release heat when that happens. Strange.

This also makes me wonder if you could heat up a Shardblade enough for it to sublimate, but without it being ridiculously hot.

Edited by ChickenLiberty
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30 minutes ago, ChickenLiberty said:

In which case the question is: where does the heat go? Into the bearer? The Blade? The Spiritual Realm? Shadesmar? Converted to extra Investiture?

What's happening while summoning a Shardblade seems kind of complicated now. First, the spren gets pulled into the Physical Realm, manifesting as a gas, then something cools down the gas enough to depose. After that, it somehow remains a solid without being constantly cooled, even though its natural form seems to be as a gas. Finally, the spren goes back into Shadesmar, but it does not release heat when that happens. Strange.

This also makes me wonder if you could heat up a Shardblade enough for it to sublimate, but without it being ridiculously hot.

time to strap a Heatrial to a shardblade and see what happens :P

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21 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

Brandon Sanderson

It’s not the Stormlight, it’s condensation because something is going directly from a gas into a solid. The coldness is caused by that, it’s not necessarily that the Stormlight is making things cold, but that the Shardblade is condensing.

This still doesn't explain why, for example, Szeth's clothing frosts over when he uses Stormlight. Honestly this sort of looks like Sanderson might need to review his facts...

Let me think

Shardblades form water droplets because the apparent chill condenses water vapor. This chill (I think) could either come from investiture (innate investiture??) or from the spren. Either way it probably has something to do with the spren bond, which I honestly am yet to read much about. But the fact that both the blade and the droplets remain solid and liquid rather than returning to a gas indicates that something is maintaining the chill AND/OR something is buffing the pressure. My guess, again, is spren or investiture (since we decided investiture is a third essence like matter or energy, and I wouldn't be surprised if spren somehow had control over phases.)

But...Adhesion??? I've only read WoK, but I don't remember if frost forms when Kaladin uses Windrunner Surgebinding, so if not then maybe the frost has to do with the Honorblade being the source of Szeth's Windrunner abilities...

Okay, I was just looking at the Arcanum and this was all I got:

Questioner

When Szeth Surgebinds, frost forms on his clothing. Why?

Brandon Sanderson

Ehhh, I’ll get around to talking about that eventually.

Figment chat (Jan. 19, 2015)

And I found this in a forum here:

"Brandon has RAFO'd the question, saying he'll get around to it eventually. It's possible that it involves the unusual thermodynamic properties of Investiture, where there's a fourth law that Brandon doesn't want to talk about yet. We know for example that there are reactions in allomancy where energy that should be present goes 'somewhere' and it's going to play a role in future books. Something similar could be at work and it's seen around Windrunners because of the nature of their powers. I only remember seeing it around Kaladin (and later the Lopen) when he swears a new ideal and it's affecting Szeth during normal surgebinding for... some reason. I can't remember, does it not happen at all in WoR? Because if it does happen in both books, it's probably related somehow to the 'dangerous amounts of stormlight' thing and the relatively shallow bond the Honorblades have."

The part I highlighted in green reminds me of the inexplicable lack of heat that should have been emitted from the deposition, so either Brandon needs to refresh his knowledge of phase changing or he is being remarkably clever in implementing this disappearing of energy. Also Brandon not wanting to talk about Szeth's frost yet might have to do with the unknown fourth law of 'Investodynamics'.

Okay (I'm totally improvising this response, so it's all over the place), so now I'm thinking that this probably has to do with Investiture, considering that we don't fully understand it yet.

My house is too noisy to think up a solid conclusion...I'll come back later to see if anyone can help me straiten things out or point out if I missed anything.

 

P.S. I just found confirmation that investiture is a third essence in the universe

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