Steel stores distance

[Chiberty]

Feruchemy's pretty weird. It makes sense at first, but then you start considering things like @Spoolofwhool does in this thread, and you realize that something is not quite right with what we've all been told by the in-world charts and theories.

Steel is said to store speed, but the longer you store it for, the more/longer you can tap (as with most feruchemical abilities). This means that the attribute that is really being stored is speed (d/t) multiplied by time (t), simplifying to distance (d).

But wait. That can't be right. Storing distance? Distance from what? You don't go flying backwards to wherever you came from while you store.

What distance seems to refer to here is this: the distance you would go if you were expending a certain amount of energy with the Intent to move (potential distance). So, if you are trying to go 4 m/s for 10 seconds and you store half of your speed for the duration, you will have 2 m/s * 10 s = 20 meters of distance stored up. You can then add that distance to your potential distance for any period of time, with the only limiting factor in tapping being things like air resistance/friction. This is consistent with what we've seen done with f-steel, along with why storing when you aren't moving won't do anything (no potential distance).

With the time parameter considered, the feruchemy chart becomes:

• Iron - mass*time
• Steel - distance
• Tin - sensitivity*time
• Pewter - strength*time
• Zinc - thought
• Brass - warmth*time
• Copper - memories
• Bronze - wakefulness*time
• Cadmium - breath*time
• Bendalloy - energy*time
• Gold - healing
• Electrum - determination*time
• Chromium - Fortune*time
• Nicrosil - Investiture
• Aluminum - Identity
• Duralumin - Connection*time

Most are changed in a simple way, but there are a few notable ones.

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by ChickenLiberty

[Honorless]

That's an insightful theory, @ChickenLiberty!

Hmm, only problem is that storing Steel seems to sap speed of movement of the whole body of the Feruchemist, not just while they are trying to move from a certain distance. 

[Chiberty]

I considered that, and the movement of the other parts of your body, like your arms, is you trying to move. It's just a smaller piece, but it should still work the same.

[Calderis]

Steel Feruchemy... Is... Just... 

Twitches. Cries. Devolves into incoherent rants and screaming. 

[Spoolofwhool]

I'm pretty sure you don't need to be moving to store physical speed.

Either way, I disagree with this analysis. Steel feruchemy is storing physical speed and a natural consequence of storing or tapping this is a change in possible distance moved for the same given time period. This is just the relation between these physical measurements. Saying it's storing physical speed would be like saying that pedaling faster on a bike is increasing its potential distance. It's not an inaccurate statement but that's just a consequences of the fact that pedaling faster is increasing its speed.

[Chiberty]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

I'm pretty sure you don't need to be moving to store physical speed.

Wouldn't that be like... storing breath while you're drowning?

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Steel feruchemy is storing physical speed and a natural consequence of storing or tapping this is a change in possible distance moved for the same given time period. This is just the relation between these physical measurements. Saying it's storing physical speed would be like saying that pedaling faster on a bike is increasing its potential distance. It's not an inaccurate statement but that's just a consequences of the fact that pedaling faster is increasing its speed.

I agree with point, and I wasn't try to suggest otherwise. I was just trying to point this relationship out.

[GoWibble]

This could deal with teleportation in that you would have to store the same amount of Intended distance as you would want to go and if you used up a huge storing of it quickly, you could basically teleport. Assuming the theory is correct

@ChickenLiberty explain why Gold isn't health*time

[Calderis]

2 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said:

Wouldn't that be like... storing breath while you're drowning?

Saved stored speed while locked in a cage for Kandra, bent in half unable to do anything more than breath. 

It's stores potential. No actual movement needed. You're also not going to get more out of it by moving faster. 

[Chiberty]

 

2 hours ago, GoWibble said:

This could deal with teleportation in that you would have to store the same amount of Intended distance as you would want to go and if you used up a huge storing of it quickly, you could basically teleport. Assuming the theory is correct

Sadly, air resistance limits how fast you can go, and even if you could eliminate that, the speed of light would still stop you.

2 hours ago, GoWibble said:

@ChickenLiberty explain why Gold isn't health*time

Quote

If Wayne spent some time being sickly and weak--his body healing itself much more slowly than normal--he could store up the health and healing ability in a metalmind. Then, when he tapped it, he healed at a greatly increased rate.

While storing over a period of time, Wayne has a lower rate of healing. health / time * time = health. Actually, I'll change it and call it "healing" instead so that's clearer.

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Saved stored speed while locked in a cage for Kandra, bent in half unable to do anything more than breath. 

It's stores potential. No actual movement needed. You're also not going to get more out of it by moving faster. 

Quote

Thoughtful Spurts

If there's really no upper limit to Feruchemy for practical reasons* , why didn't Sazed just fill steel at ridiculous levels for a few minutes in [Well of Ascension], and then go back to running instead of leaving his steelminds there? Say, being some 100,000 times slower than he would normally be for about a minute. Meaning that a Feruchemist should be able to fill a given metalmind in very short periods of time if you fill at a high enough rate.

*(yes, you have the limit of how much you can store in a given metalmind and for how many metalminds you can carry on your person, but those are probably too high to really be taken into account in more "normal" circumstances)

Brandon Sanderson

The low end is bounded. You can pull out tons--but in filling, you can only go so far. I didn't ever explicitly talk about this in the series, but the implications are there. Not all have the same bounds, but in your example, the body just can't slow beyond a certain point. Think of it this way--you can only fill a weight metalmind with as much weight as you have to give. So you can become very, very light--but you only add to a time for doubling your weight. You can't make yourself 100,000 times slower and gain 100,000 times multiplication. You can give up all of your normal speed, and so when you tap that speed out you are at 200% for an equal period. (And that's a theoretical maximum; realistically, you can only go to down around 75% slower or the like.)

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)

So, if you can only store 75% of your speed, then when your speed is zero, you won't be getting anything. Luckily for Sazed, it is speed*time, not velocity*time, so every time he shifted, the metalmind would fill more. Only being able to store 75% also means that you definitely benefit from going faster while storing.

Edited October 26, 2019 by ChickenLiberty

[Calderis]

16 minutes ago, ChickenLiberty said:

So, if you can only store 75% of your speed, then when your speed is zero, you won't be getting anything. Luckily for Sazed, it is speed*time, not velocity*time, so every time he shifted, the metalmind would fill more. Only being able to store 75% also means that you definitely benefit from going faster while storing.

Which is not at all what were shown. 

In both cases that we saw Sazed store speed, his ability to move was decreased. Breathing, moving, all of it felt like moving through a thick liquid. 

I don't think it's any more variable a factor than heat, or mental speed, or Fortune. To be frank, I don't really feel like most of them are as variable as they seem. I think that iron is going to increase your weight by the same percentage, regardless of if you store on Roshar with reduced gravity and weighing 100 lbs, or on Sel at 200.

[Chiberty]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

In both cases that we saw Sazed store speed, his ability to move was decreased. Breathing, moving, all of it felt like moving through a thick liquid. 

This doesn't contradict the WoB. If he is trying to store 75% of his speed, then each movement should feel like it's in slow motion. When you're not moving, you won't feel like you're trying to move through a thick liquid... because you're not trying to move. It should feel about four times as difficult to move any distance.

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

I think that iron is going to increase your weight by the same percentage, regardless of if you store on Roshar with reduced gravity and weighing 100 lbs, or on Sel at 200.

Definitely. Weight is directly proportional to mass (which is what is being stored, based on how the conservation of momentum affects Wax's speed).

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

I don't think it's any more variable a factor than heat, or mental speed, or Fortune. To be frank, I don't really feel like most of them are as variable as they seem.

What does this mean? Sorry, the wording's just a little confusing. Or maybe I'm just not reading it right.

I'm a lot better at responding to questions/criticism than I am at explaining everything in the original post, so the more you have, the better.

Edited October 26, 2019 by ChickenLiberty

[Calderis]

38 minutes ago, ChickenLiberty said:

When you're not moving, you won't feel like you're trying to move through a thick liquid... because you're not trying to move.

That's just it though, and why I think it's a static trait. We never stop moving. Breathing. Heart rate. Blood flow. Ceasing motion is not something we do before death. 

The rate at which you are attempting to move is different than the rate at which you body functions. 

[Chiberty]

I've got one other possible explanation to what get stored: (speed multiplier)*time. If this were the case, you would be able to store when you're not moving. The only reason I'm hesitant to accept that explanation is that it doesn't even include speed as a factor. It would mean that the in-world scientists were really far off, instead of just missing the time parameter.

So, two explanations - stores distance or stores (speed multiplier)*time. I don't really hold one over the other. The big difference is that one lets you store while stationary.

[Calderis]

I'd definitely err towards it working for both storing and tapping both. We see bleeder tap while standing still, and time is still slowed for her. 

Which is why I've asked Brandon multiple questions about if steel is temporal in nature.

Because while he says it's not... It makes storming sense. 

[Chiberty]

So, since the speed multiplier option would seem like a temporal modifier, although it technically isn't, maybe that's what Brandon's trying to get at.

[StanLemon]

Remember, every power that exists has a Physical, Mental, and Spiritual aspect. The traits themselves seem to be more focused on the Cognitive recognition of what a trait is while the Physical aspects of the power seem to be focused on all the little minutia that make up that Cognitive trait.

One thought I have is that maybe it stores the kinetic energy involved with movement. Feruchemy seems to be able to distinguish the types of energy it is involved with and each "trait" in Feruchemy would have to actually involve multiple actual traits to be done. Like with Brass, it would have to distinguish the kinetic energy causing heat alone but would also have to manipulate the way chemical reactions in the human body work as well. With Steel, perhaps it is storing the energy of movement and when tapping part of it goes into increasing your mental speed enough to process the information too.