Config2

[OB] Assigning Death Rattles

32 posts in this topic

So we have some number of unassigned death rattles left. A bunch of them are pretty clearly linked to events that have happened while some either aren't linked or haven't happened. As we have seen, nothing glimpsed in future is definite, only possible, or likely. And it would make sense that Moalach is more likely to share visions of the future with dying people that proclaim Odium positive outcomes, so these all need to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me! While the sun is still hot, I die! 

I can't think of an event to match this one

 

A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears.

This sounds like Dalinar during the first vision in OB. He watches Kholinar fall to dust, and senses Odium (the waters) far beneath. And then he sees himself, a metaphorical child, at the moment he almost falls to Odium at Thalyen field (when he is crying). He also at that time is hearing the crying of children as he remember Rathalas.

 

I'm cold. Mother, I'm cold. Mother? Why can I still hear the rain? Will it stop?

This also may be a Dalinar reference, as he speaks to Cultivation in the valley. He wonders if the rain (the voices of his victims) will ever stop. Could also be about something totally different.

 

 

I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done?

Given that the speaker is a Veyden sailor, I am almost certain that this is a reference to the upcoming Veyden Civil War. I don't think this has anything to do with Tien, as Kaladin wouldn't wonder what we have done, rather what he has not done.

 

I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.

I cant think of an event to match this one. The Diagram pretty clearly views this a metaphor for those that need to die in order for the world to live. Might be part of Shallan's past, and her mother believes that killing her would forestall the desolation. But she isn't really suckling age at that point, and she doesn't seem to be hesitating in killing Shallan during the actual event.

 

The darkness becomes a palace. Let it rule! Let it rule! 

This might refer to the occupation of the Kholinar Palace by the Unmade.

 

Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above.

This is a Ketek. Seems to me to be about how Honor's death (the illuminating storm) leads to Odium (the silence, as a void) ruling over the planet.

 

The day was ours, but they took it. Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather!

I can't think of an event which this matches. 

 

So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life...

This might refer to a decision by honor, or an honorable person (which usually refers to Kaladin) to spare someone from death. Night reigning seems to imply that Odium wins.

 

 

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Hey @Config2! It seems you accidentally double posted!

Just delete this one by going to the top of the page, click Moderate > Hide > "accidentally double posted"

Edit: since people have already started to respond here, delete the other one instead.

Edited by Honorless
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2 hours ago, Config2 said:

You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me! While the sun is still hot, I die! 

This might not be a death rattle. It could be the person being killed by Taravangians doctors saying to them that you have killed me..

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Whoops, accidentally responded to the other one! 

3 hours ago, Config2 said:

So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life...

This might refer to a decision by honor, or an honorable person (which usually refers to Kaladin) to spare someone from death. Night reigning seems to imply that Odium wins.

This might be Kaladin deciding not to kill himself at the Honor Chasm.

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@Honorless Whoops! Thanks for the heads up.

1 hour ago, The traveller said:

This might not be a death rattle. It could be the person being killed by Taravangians doctors saying to them that you have killed me..

I suppose so, but that seems excessive for one of these chapter intros. Usually they have a little bit of a deeper meaning. 

54 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Whoops, accidentally responded to the other one! 

This might be Kaladin deciding not to kill himself at the Honor Chasm.

I honestly don't remember the details of that passage. Does he comment on how now he has to live with the night or something?

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28 minutes ago, Config2 said:

suppose so, but that seems excessive for one of these chapter intros. Usually they have a little bit of a deeper meaning. 

Usually but there is one more which is similar 

lemme try to find it

found two more, here

Quote

“I’m dying, aren’t I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky.”

and 

I wish to sleep. I know now why you do what you do, and I hate you for it. I will not speak of the truths I see. 

This one sounds like battle of thaylenah 

Quote

Ten people, with Shardblades alight, standing before a wall of black and white and red. 

 

Edited by The traveller
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47 minutes ago, Config2 said:

I honestly don't remember the details of that passage. Does he comment on how now he has to live with the night or something?

No, but nothing says the "night will reign" part happens at the same time. It could be foreshadowing within foreshadowing, like Kaladin being unable to make a choice he needs to make and it costs the Kholins the war against Odium or something. Or it could be as simple as the fact that it took place at night.

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I found an older thread that has a lot of good ideas in it.

I still am fond of my theory that

Quote

The death is my life, the strength becomes my weakness, the journey has ended.

— Observed on Betabanes 1173, 95 seconds pre-death, collected secondhand and later reported to the the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a scholar of some minor renown. Sample considered questionable.

is referring to when Elhokar died in the middle of swearing the first Ideal.

 

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6 hours ago, Config2 said:

The day was ours, but they took it. Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather!

I can't think of an event which this matches. 

This could be Narak.  They are winning the battle but it does not matter.  Because the everstorm is coming and the Highstorm oh Stormfather what have you done!  The lights fail seems like oathgate transport draining the fabrial light and they come rasping could be the fused.

Edited by Karger
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6 hours ago, Config2 said:

You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me! While the sun is still hot, I die! 

I mean, a lot of people die in Oathbringer. Could this be Jezrien? The sun could be Odium.

 

6 hours ago, Config2 said:

I'm cold. Mother, I'm cold. Mother? Why can I still hear the rain? Will it stop?

I think this is a reference to the Ever storm. It could also be Kaladin's depression during the Weeping, but that seems unlikely.

 

6 hours ago, Config2 said:

 

I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done?

This could be referring to when the Thrill made Sadeas's soldiers attack the Thaylen. 

 

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3 hours ago, The traveller said:

"I wish to sleep. I know now why you do what you do, and I hate you for it. I will not speak of the truths I see."

Am I the only one who doesn't think the speaker is talking to the Silent Gatherers in this death rattle? Ostensibly, they're killing people to collect death rattles for the greater good. It's easy to see why someone would find their methods despicable, but why would anybody hate the Diagram for the reasons behind their actions?

I've always thought the speaker was actually addressing Moelach, or rather Odium/the force driving it since Moelach is itself mindless. It's a pretty common theory that Moelach is actually an information gatherer for Odium, and uses the spark of death to gain glimpses into the future. So it makes since that the speaker might have gained insight into the machinations behind Moelach, and is refusing to share information which could aid the enemy.

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4 hours ago, ILuvHats said:

Am I the only one who doesn't think the speaker is talking to the Silent Gatherers in this death rattle? Ostensibly, they're killing people to collect death rattles for the greater good. It's easy to see why someone would find their methods despicable, but why would anybody hate the Diagram for the reasons behind their actions?

This is more like the person being blessed to death by taravangian’s doctors saying to them... I know what you are doing now, I see the truths you want to know but you do not deserve it, I am not going to give it to you 

check my earlier post I have mentioned two more that sound similar to me

Edited by The traveller
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2 hours ago, The traveller said:

This is more like the person being blessed to death by taravangian’s doctors saying to them... I know what you are doing now, I see the truths you want to know but you do not deserve it, I am not going to give it to you 

check my earlier post I have mentioned two more that sound similar to me

I saw your post, and I agree the other two are dubious death rattles. I don’t know though. The 3rd one just seems off to me, like it would feel weird if the person were talking to a member of the diagram. I get what your saying, and the simpler answer, that the persons talking to the silent gatherer, is probably correct. The exact phrasing just feels off to me, for the reasons I already mentioned.

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@ILuvHats possible i agree

Quote

The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me

this one could be Taln finally breaking

Quote

A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal.

this is clearly Ash

Quote

Re-Shephir, the Midnight Mother, giving birth to abominations with her essence so dark, so terrible, so consuming. She is here! She watches me die! 

Could this be someone being killed at Urithiru by copy-killers?

Quote

Above the final void I hang, friends behind, friends before. The feast I must drink clings to their faces, and the words I must speak spark in my mind. The old oaths will be spoken anew

This could be Kaladin in TWOK in the battle at the tower..

Quote

All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds

This could be foreshadowing for Moash showdown with Kaladin..

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I didn't post the ones that seem to have a common consensus about them (on coppermind). 

 

@ILuvHats I didn't consider the Moelach himself as a type of silent gatherer. I think the Shin sample is more of a direct to camera comment. Szeth makes a couple of comments that his people have watched for the return of the enemy. To me that says they are prepared to fight the singers, and believe they have a chance at victory. That would mean they strongly disagree with the fatalism behind the Diagram.

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2 hours ago, Config2 said:

I didn't consider the Moelach himself as a type of silent gatherer. I think the Shin sample is more of a direct to camera comment. Szeth makes a couple of comments that his people have watched for the return of the enemy. To me that says they are prepared to fight the singers, and believe they have a chance at victory. That would mean they strongly disagree with the fatalism behind the Diagram.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t saying Moelach was a silent gatherer, I was saying he, as a unmade, is serving Odium’s purposes, and that the speaker wasn’t even addressing the silent gatherers. 

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On 10/24/2019 at 7:35 AM, Config2 said:

I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.

On 10/24/2019 at 7:35 AM, Config2 said:

So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life...

I was actually thinking about these this morning. I think these 2 might be related to a choice a person associated with honor has to make. Kaladin is usually associated with honor. Kaladin has a baby brother. I think that Kaladin will have some sort of choice with killing or saving his baby brother. He lets it live, and the "night", or Odium will reign.

On 10/24/2019 at 7:35 AM, Config2 said:

I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done?

I think this one might mean that Kaladin is injured and bleeding after some fight. He is standing over his baby brother, knowing he has to kill him, so he is weeping and not thinking straight. He can't tell what's happening, in a daze. He is thinking how it has come to this, how he has to kill the brother.

Then, if my other predictions are correct, he doesn't do it, and Odium gains control.

On 10/24/2019 at 7:35 AM, Config2 said:

A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears.

I also think this might be linked. Kaladin doesn't kill his brother, and Alethkar (his homeland) falls because of it. Odium shows his terrible power and fulfills Dalinar's first vision- where the land fell away into dust. He regards himself as a child for his failure and is crying.

Of course, this is all just guesses and these death rattles might not even be linked.

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46 minutes ago, Mushroom Catalog said:

I was actually thinking about these this morning. I think these 2 might be related to a choice a person associated with honor has to make

The first one is generally attributed to be the silent gatherers themselves.  They do in fact kill children to save the world.

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On 10/25/2019 at 2:06 PM, Karger said:

They do in fact kill children to save the world

That is true, although the general population of the world doesn't know about them and is therefore unable to wish for them to kill children for death rattles.

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37 minutes ago, Mushroom Catalog said:

That is true, although the general population of the world doesn't know about them and is therefore unable to wish for them to kill children for death rattles.

But they believe and must believe that if they were to know they would want them to.

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I feel like the way it's phrased that it means they already do wish. And they didn't spill the blood, they drained it.

But, the entire thing is pretty much a matter of perspective. Nobody can really prove anything.

Basing it off of exact wording, it seems to imply that all who live want them to kill the child.

Based off of things we have seen, it seems that the silent gatherers are the probable choice.

Again, it comes down to perspective and how literally one takes the death rattle.

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On 10/24/2019 at 2:56 PM, The traveller said:

“I’m dying, aren’t I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky.”

Despite the fact that the Silent Gathers mark this as one of particular note, it seem questionable to me that this is really a Death Rattle. To me, it feels like this one is more just this guy getting a glimpse into the Cognitive Realm as he dies. Like, he's describing Shadesmar, and apparently there was a Cryptic hanging out in the room. 

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On 10/25/2019 at 0:26 AM, The traveller said:

I’m dying, aren’t I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky.”

and 

I wish to sleep. I know now why you do what you do, and I hate you for it. I will not speak of the truths I see. 

@Gilphon  in my earlier post that is the exact point I was trying to make, that these are not death rattles.. These are people describing what they are seeing before dying not visions from the unmade

May be this person was also a potential lightweaver who dies like Elhokar and Tien..

cryptics really have awful record when it comes to keeping their potential candidates alive !!

Edited by The traveller
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I suspect that's partly because the Cryptics are the only ones who've decided to return en mass- Syl and Ivory and Windle were able to grab the best candidates on the planet, but the Cryptics are all competing with each other and so not all of them ended up with top-notch people. And partly because the Lightweaver powerset isn't all that great at getting you out of dangerous situations unless you've progressed far enough that you can use it consciously. It's probably the worst one by that standard. But I digress. 

The 'I wish to sleep' one is... I mean, I think I'd technically consider it a Death Rattle, because I do think that guy said that because of something Moelach showed him, but it's an odd one in that he's refusing to play along. Interesting and worth noting that that's apparently possible; the other Death Rattles seem pretty involuntary. 

And then there's 'Bastards, you've killed me' one. The main thing that makes it sounds like a Death Rattles is 'while the Sun is still hot'. Which sounds to me like another reference to Shadesmar, where the sun is weird and cold.

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Yes I think they are seeing the death rattled. It not telling them to the silent gatherers.. 

which must show a unique level of self awareness and ability to assert said awareness even under the influence of the unmade.. 

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