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Kaladin28

Lord Ruler using duralumin with atium

Question

We know burning duralumin with atium will allow Allomancers (specifically mistborn) to see the ultimate effects of their actions, as Eland did at the end of 'The Hero of Ages'. We know the Lord Ruler had plenty of access to both of these metals and knew their specific effects. And also ruled for a thousand years, which is plenty of time  to experiment with all sorts of allomancy (as well as Hemalurgy and Feruchemy) 

I cannot see any reason why he would not want to try out burning both, or at the very least making another mistborn try it out to see the effects? But I have not seen any mention in the texts of whether that he did try it out or not, or if there was any particular reason he did not want to try it out. 

If he did use both together though, the consequences for the plot would be weird; he would have known that he would eventually be killed by Vin and exactly what followed in the next two books. Did he follow it through knowing where it would lead maybe? It just seems like an interesting scenario and poses many questions regardless. Was wondering if there is information I've not read yet (has Brandon Sanderson mentioned anything) or general thoughts about it. 

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We've seen the effects of glimpsing the Spiritual directly as a being who is less than a Shard, and it is both overwhelming and not easily retained. 

Elend only really managed to use it to his effect because what was needed of him was immediate and had no time to fade away. 

As far as what I think happened... I think that the Lord Ruler did do that at one point and it did effect his actions for the future. He had with his powers, absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that anyone would be able to kill him... 

And yet we have the storage caches. So while he probably didn't see the particulars, he did see a probable outcome in which he would die and the people as a whole who he was attempting to preserve would need the information he'd surpressed and the food and materials he'd hoarded in those caches to start rebuilding. 

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What @Calderis said. this can be explained if you read SH

After seeing the spiritual real through Preservation's eyes Kelsier goes to seek out the IRE. Along the way Kelsier forgets the specifics of what he saw and only has a vague idea that Vin can beat Ruin. This is probably what would have happened to TLR. He would have had a vague idea that creating the caches would help in the defeat of Ruin for good.

 

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On 10/21/2019 at 0:39 AM, Calderis said:

We've seen the effects of glimpsing the Spiritual directly as a being who is less than a Shard, and it is both overwhelming and not easily retained. 

Elend only really managed to use it to his effect because what was needed of him was immediate and had no time to fade away. 

As far as what I think happened... I think that the Lord Ruler did do that at one point and it did effect his actions for the future. He had with his powers, absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that anyone would be able to kill him... 

And yet we have the storage caches. So while he probably didn't see the particulars, he did see a probable outcome in which he would die and the people as a whole who he was attempting to preserve would need the information he'd surpressed and the food and materials he'd hoarded in those caches to start rebuilding. 

My first thought is that if the LR burned duralumin and atium to see the ultimate consequences of his actions, he could've had a vision of the post-Catacendre world. His work with the Kandra, the storate caverns and everyone else, after all, guided the survival of the Originators and the Final Ascension. To him, however, this might have been interpreted as "oh, well, I guess I live long enough to use the Well of Ascension and fix everything I did to the world! Yay me!"

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So if Rashek truly wanted to keep Ruin from ever recovering his body, instead of stockpiling it over centuries in the Kandra Trust, in the care of hemalurgic creatures that Ruin could seize control of unless they were immediately able to pull off their Resolution with 100% success...

Shouldn't he just have burned it all himself, personally, as soon as it was produced at the Pits? Setting aside some of it for his atiummind compounding of youth, and maybe some small amount to keep the "trappings of a reserve system" as an economic lever in The Final Empire, as he did? Or even just to withhold atium from the Final Empire altogether, keeping it a complete secret, as he did other metals!

Maybe a glimpse of Preservation's Plan he saw while Ascended stayed with him as an echo, like with Kelsier in SH, an echo that told him he should stockpile the atium instead of burning it.

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1 hour ago, robardin said:

So if Rashek truly wanted to keep Ruin from ever recovering his body, instead of stockpiling it over centuries in the Kandra Trust, in the care of hemalurgic creatures that Ruin could seize control of unless they were immediately able to pull off their Resolution with 100% success...

Shouldn't he just have burned it all himself, personally, as soon as it was produced at the Pits? Setting aside some of it for his atiummind compounding of youth, and maybe some small amount to keep the "trappings of a reserve system" as an economic lever in The Final Empire, as he did? Or even just to withhold atium from the Final Empire altogether, keeping it a complete secret, as he did other metals!

Maybe a glimpse of Preservation's Plan he saw while Ascended stayed with him as an echo, like with Kelsier in SH, an echo that told him he should stockpile the atium instead of burning it.

From my understanding, burning it didn't make it go away. Matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed or transferred. What Ruin would have done with it had he found it and what happens to it after burning it, I do not know. But, based on what happened and how he reacted to Marsh finding it all used, it was temporarily inaccessible. There are probably some relevant WoBs on what happens to Investiture after it is used, my best guess is there's a limbo period after it has been used but hasn't returned to the relevant Shard's accumulation of Investiture.  

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On 1/21/2020 at 1:46 PM, robardin said:

So if Rashek truly wanted to keep Ruin from ever recovering his body, instead of stockpiling it over centuries in the Kandra Trust, in the care of hemalurgic creatures that Ruin could seize control of unless they were immediately able to pull off their Resolution with 100% success...

Shouldn't he just have burned it all himself, personally, as soon as it was produced at the Pits? Setting aside some of it for his atiummind compounding of youth, and maybe some small amount to keep the "trappings of a reserve system" as an economic lever in The Final Empire, as he did? Or even just to withhold atium from the Final Empire altogether, keeping it a complete secret, as he did other metals!

Maybe a glimpse of Preservation's Plan he saw while Ascended stayed with him as an echo, like with Kelsier in SH, an echo that told him he should stockpile the atium instead of burning it.

From my understanding, as soon as atium is burned, it starts forming somewhere else-usually the Pits of Hathsin. The formation process does take time, though? Somthere could only be a certain amount of atium on Scadrial at one time, but once it was burned, it reformed. If that’s true, then burning atium to keep it out of Ruin’s hands would be useless.

I agree with you that it doesn’t seem like the best plan, leaving it with the kandra. Although using humans to guard it would be much worst, in my estimation; there would have been many more generations of guards, which makes it much more likely for there to have been some sort of corruption, either of greed—atium is worth its weight in gold—or of simple miscommunication though generations. 

On second thought, the Kandra were probably Rashek’s best bet. Unfortunately for him

Edited by RealmaticTheorist
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