Honorless Posted November 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 Ah, yes I would never have seen Elegy's response otherwise 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Honorless said: Ah, yes I would never have seen Elegy's response otherwise The yes was a "this is what I meant statement." Also really? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 Then include your reasoning with your statement Or in this case, make that statement in the first place May I point out that you wrote one word then quoted a response by someone else on the same thread I trust you've seen my response to the text you chose to quote and I wouldn't have to re-quote it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 The source of Sand Mastery's Investiture is the Dayside blue giant, so I think Bavadin or at least the most significant portion of Autonomy is on that sun. As the Sand Lord, he is said to allow "Coexistant Contradiction, both light and dark", so the theory of the moon reflecting Autonomy's Investiture to Darkside, though most likely correct, isn't necessary as it still allows for Autonomy to inhabit the white dwarf. Given the faces (plural, different looking) on the clouds in the GN and Sand Mastery's relationship as water forming a temporary bond, I think those too are Avatars of Autonomy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 53 minutes ago, Honorless said: The source of Sand Mastery's Investiture is the Dayside blue giant, so I think Bavadin or at least the most significant portion of Autonomy is on that sun. And I still think we have conflicting WoBs on this, and that it's not that clear cut. Quote Jasonioan What is the Shard on White Sand? Because we've both read White Sand. Brandon Sanderson The Shard-- So what the Shard is doing is, the Shard is the Sand God. But I didn't bring it out much, there's only one Shard on the planet. And the Shard actually kind of resides in the atmosphere and stuff like that but we decided to bring the Shard out a little bit more in the comic book so when you read that you'll be able to find a little more. Jasonioan Does it take effect in the Darkside? Brandon Sanderson Yes, it does. Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted November 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) "The Sun was the Sand Lord's eye", plus Sand Mastery works anywhere where the star's light can reach the sand. Bavadin is known to use Avatars. It is a theory, one which is plausible, considering the information available, till a better one can be made. Edit: This theory by @Gilphon for how Autonomy creates her Avatars is quite good! Quote So... theory. Bavadin is inhabiting Taldain's sun, right? And spreading her investiture through the sunlight? This implies that her Investiture is radiating throughout the Cosmere; landing everywhere that Star is visible. Not enough to be particularly noticeable, and not enough to do much of anything, but it's still gonna land everywhere. Nobody's gonna be using that Investiture, so over the course of thousands of years, it would just gradually build up more and more. And when you leave that kind of power alone, with nobody holding or using it for that long, it tends to gain its own kind of sentience, as we've seen elsewhere and has been referred to in a few WoBs. So eventually you'd get a sentient and powerful piece of Autonomous Investiture pretty much everywhere. So on Taldain, where Bavadin's Investiture is obviously a lot more plentiful, this process happens a lot faster, and the Sand Lord manifests pretty quickly. But Trell and Patji and whatever avatar is forming on Obradai take much longer to reach significant amounts of power, so nobody realizes what's going on until they're pretty well established. Edited December 31, 2019 by Honorless 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal Khol Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 On 11/12/2019 at 10:51 AM, Honorless said: "The Sun was the Sand Lord's eye", plus Sand Mastery works anywhere where the star's light can reach the sand. Bavadin is known to use Avatars. It is a theory, one which is plausible, considering the information available, till a better one can be made. Edit: This theory by @Gilphon for how Autonomy creates her Avatars is quite good! Brandon has said that everything happening on FoTS could happen with or without a shard present. And that the Investiture there was already there before the shattering 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) On 1/21/2020 at 5:20 AM, Eternal Khol said: Brandon has said that everything happening on FoTS could happen with or without a shard present. And that the Investiture there was already there before the shattering Yeah, I know. It's an old post, and I've changed my mind regarding what Avatars might be Basically, I think that Splinters are formed directly by a Shard whereas an Avatar is formed from the Investiture from Adonalsium that got assigned to a Shard post-Shattering Edited January 22, 2020 by Honorless 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 11 hours ago, Honorless said: Basically, I think that Splinters are formed directly by a Shard whereas an Avatar is formed from the Investiture from Adonalsium that got assigned to a Shard post-Shattering Then how do new avatars show up? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Karger said: Then how do new avatars show up? Investiture naturally tends to gain sentience https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=Investiture%2Bsentience plus one can become a Vessel for them Quote Pod The combination of a Shard and its Vessel leads to sapient mind with access to a virtually infinite pool of Investiture. Are avatars the product of a similar combination of a mind and a pool of Investiture, only on a smaller scale, with less power? Brandon Sanderson I would say that is an accurate representation of what an avatar is. It’s not the only way, but it is an accurate... some avatars are that. I would say that’s the standard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Honorless said: Investiture naturally tends to gain sentience Sure but by your theory Adonalsium would have to have already assigned that investiture yet we have evidence that new types of avatars show up regularly in the years since his death. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Karger said: Sure but by your theory Adonalsium would have to have already assigned that investiture yet we have evidence that new types of avatars show up regularly in the years since his death. Regularly? We don't know enough about Avatars yet to make statements like that Also, I didn't say Adonalsium assigned the Investiture's Intent, I said post-Shattering. As we understand so far, it seems Shardic Intent only came about after Adonalsium's death Edited January 21, 2020 by Honorless 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Honorless said: Also, I didn't say Adonalsium assigned the Investiture's Intent, I said post-Shattering. As we understand so far, it seems Shardic Intent only came about after Adonalsium's death So by my current understanding of your theory there is only the potential for a limited number of avatars. Is this correct? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Just now, Karger said: So by my current understanding of your theory there is only the potential for a limited number of avatars. Is this correct? Limited? Well, only in the sense that the amount of Investiture in the Cosmere itself is limited. And the amount that isn't directly being held by Shards is probably a significant percentage of that. Not that we have any measurements or even estimates at this point. I'm not sure I want the Cosmere to veer into number-crunching LitRPG style. Actually, now that I think about it, I'm absolutely sure that I most definitely don't want that to happen. I am still interested in having a basic unit of Investiture though, which we will get eventually, according to Brandon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 8 hours ago, Honorless said: Limited? Well, only in the sense that the amount of Investiture in the Cosmere itself is limited. And the amount that isn't directly being held by Shards is probably a significant percentage of that. Not that we have any measurements or even estimates at this point. I thought your theory indicated that only investiture that had been assigned to do something else by adonalsium could be used. Since there are a limited number of entities that fit that description a limited number of avatars could be made from them since no new ones are going to show up(the big a being dead). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal Khol Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 8 hours ago, Honorless said: Regularly? We don't know enough about Avatars yet to make statements like that Also, I didn't say Adonalsium assigned the Investiture's Intent, I said post-Shattering. As we understand so far, it seems Shardic Intent only came about after Adonalsium's death Intent was there before the shattering. But I don't know if it was called intent back then? Part of WoB: "I always imagine Investiture having certain states, certain magnetisms if you will, associated with certain aspects of Adonalsium. So it's all "assigned" to a Shard--because it's always been associated with that Shard. To Investiture, Adonalsium's Shattering meant everything and nothing at the same time." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted January 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 40 minutes ago, Karger said: I thought your theory indicated that only investiture that had been assigned to do something else by adonalsium could be used. Since there are a limited number of entities that fit that description a limited number of avatars could be made from them since no new ones are going to show up(the big a being dead). Oh, okay, yes 25 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said: Intent was there before the shattering. But I don't know if it was called intent back then? Part of WoB: "I always imagine Investiture having certain states, certain magnetisms if you will, associated with certain aspects of Adonalsium. So it's all "assigned" to a Shard--because it's always been associated with that Shard. To Investiture, Adonalsium's Shattering meant everything and nothing at the same time." The Investiture would have always been keyed towards a certain flavour, which would indicate which Shard it would get assigned to post-Shattering. Before that, it would all belong to Adonalsium, Intents being aspects of his personality. The WoB you posted isn't contrary to what I said at all. Quote Paladin Brewer Was it necessary that Adonalsium split into sixteen Shards, or was it happenstance? Brandon Sanderson I will RAFO that one. Paladin Brewer Would the number or intents have been different, if there were more or less people? Brandon Sanderson That's all wrapped up in that RAFO. Let's say it's conceivable that the split could have happened in different ways. Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017) Quote Eric If Adonalsium Shattered with intent, would he always Shatter with the same Shards? Brandon Sanderson It is plausible that it could've gone a different way. Eric So it could've been different Shards? Brandon Sanderson Yes, that's plausible. Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014) Quote askthepaperclip (paraphrased) If Adonalsium were to shatter in a parallel universe, would it divide into the same 16 intents? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Um...it...Adonalsium could have been shattered in other ways. askthepaperclip (paraphrased) Was there a force determining which way it shattered? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes! New York Signing (Nov. 16, 2013) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Tia Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Karger said: I thought your theory indicated that only investiture that had been assigned to do something else by adonalsium could be used. Since there are a limited number of entities that fit that description a limited number of avatars could be made from them since no new ones are going to show up(the big a being dead). I think what @Honorless says about how avatars are made by autonomy using residual investiture that got assigned to him post-shattering, makes total sense. And I also agree that that should mean that the no. Of avatars that autonomy can make should be limited in number as in not infinite. But although that number could still be quite big to matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 9 hours ago, Honorless said: Oh, okay, yes This could make an interesting Mistborn era 4 with Harmony not being able to exert himself directly but Autonomy only having a limited number of shots. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted August 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) Okay, so, the largest chunk of Autonomy's power is probably in the sun, as Brandon's said that her Investiture can be used anywhere that reaches her starlight (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/121/#e4770) and Khriss said that Autonomy's Investiture coming from the sun is the most simplified version of what's going on. Autonomy probably is also Invested in the atmosphere: there's all those faces in the sky in the graphic novels. Also Taldain is tidally locked, one side permanently heated by the sun & one in the (relative) dark: it should either have been facing massive hurricanes (hot air expanding from Dayside while cold air compresses on Darkside) or have all its atmosphere stripped from its surface, or the first situation slowly leading to the latter. Also Brandon has confirmed before that Autonomy is in the atmosphere of Taldain. I think those two WoBs don't contradict one another at all. Looking back at the Patji being a Shard of Adonalsium WoB, Brandon has tried to keep his cards close to his chest like this before, and it also provides an answer to what Autonomy might be doing. While a weather phenomenon could be managed by a Shard (like the Mists on Scadrial), something like this might need and/or create a sentient being (like the Highstorm on Roshar), but rather than Splinters, Autonomy might be using Avatars. It's possible that Taldain, like First of the Sun already had some of Autonomy's Investiture and that's why Bavadin settled there. I wonder if Autonomy has also Invested the smaller blue supergiant (I'm assuming that's what it is, rather than a white dwarf or a neutron star, seriously that would be too much). Edit: it was a white dwarf, I was wondering where I was remembering that from but it was mentioned in the AU I'm also liking the idea of the moon, Nizh Da, reflecting Investiture along with light. Also, can Autonomy increase the lifespan of her what looks like a blue supergiant which have a much lower lifespan than a yellow dwarf star like our sun (though it's a giant among yellow dwarf stars) or a red dwarf star. Edited August 21, 2020 by Honorless white dwarf > smaller blue supergiant > back to white dwarf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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