autonomy Lost Autonomy, please help

[Honorless]

So where is Autonomy exactly?

I was going through the White Sand comics and there were faces in the sky. Not very subtle, that.

But I remember reading WoBs and theories where Autonomy is the sun on the Dayside of the Taldain system. About how strange the entire Taldain planetary/stellar system was, why Taldain's Perpendicularity might be blocked (because it's in the Sun), how the lichen of the white sands recharge after being used for Sand Mastery, the Skycolors of Darkside (Shifting Colors in the comics), etc. Autonomy being the Sun made perfect sense, but there are also theories on her being Invested in the atmosphere, and some of those theories still work with that.

So is Autonomy hiding in the sun or in the atmosphere? Did Brandon change his mind?

Also, what's up with, what looks like an Avatar of her, appearing before Elorin? What's this about Scythe (Skathan in the comics, the Emperor of the Dynasty on Darkside) possibly being another Avatar of her? I've read the WoB on Patji about it being an Avatar of Autonomy formed of her Intent but not quite Splintered off her, and I understand that bit but why would Hoid leave the letter to him? Was access to Bavadin blocked at that point due to her closing off Taldain?

Edited November 18, 2019 by Honorless

[Calderis]

The blockade had not happened yet at that point in time. Probably not until the end of where ever the future GN will take us, because it's placement kept Khriss from returning home to Taldain, and in the comics she has yet to leave. This also means the perpendicularity has to be on world somewhere, or Khriss wouldn't have been able to leave. 

Spoilered for length and general cosmere. 

Spoiler

It appears that at the time of Stormlight, the blockade has been dropped. 

Quote

Questioner

Nightblood. He just showed up at the end of The Stormlight Archive--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

--the last one. So, is there a place that's a connection between all of the universes?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, there is.

Questioner

And it's been reached in The Stormlight Archive?

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, so I'm guessing you don't know about all of this but there are characters from Elantris that are in Mistborn--

Questioner

Yes. Like Hoid.

Brandon Sanderson

--and all of this stuff. I would say one of the things is that Roshar is a little bit easier to get to than some of the others, but it's not that it has been breached there so much as it's a little bit easier to get to.

Questioner

Yes, I'm assuming it has something to do with the Cognitive Realm but then objects going through the Cognitive Realm is kind of tripping me.

Brandon Sanderson

Hehe… *long pause* There are places in the Cognitive Realm that are somewhat nexus-like, like you're talking about. Yes there are places like that. ...So Roshar might actually be the easiest place to get to in the cosmere, like from planet to planet. Sel is probably the hardest, right now. For a long time Taldain was very hard, but not anymore.

Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015)

 

We don't know much about the Avatars, how or why she forms them, if the Sand Lord or Skathen are one... 

For how Taldain itself is invested, we don't know exactly, but the Taldain essay in AU implies it's more complicated than simply the sunlight. 

Quote

For years we assumed that our Shard, Autonomy, had Invested only Dayside, through the sunlight itself. We know now it is not as simple as this, though the mechanism is best explained under those assumptions. The Investiture beats down from the sky, and is absorbed by a microflora that grows like a lichen on the surface of the sand, giving it its brilliant white color (when fully Invested) or deep blackness (when that Investiture is depleted).

So generally, when it comes to Autonomy and Taldain, we just don't know enough. 

[Aon Tia]

Taldain perpendicularity is in the sun? That does not make any sense....

I agree @Calderis Taldain system on the whole is very confusing and we don’t know enough. 
hmmm.. is there any likelihood of a second prose version on white sand 2 in the future. 
 

[Honorless]

On 10/21/2019 at 11:49 AM, Calderis said:

The blockade had not happened yet at that point in time. Probably not until the end of where ever the future GN will take us, because it's placement kept Khriss from returning home to Taldain, and in the comics she has yet to leave. This also means the perpendicularity has to be on world somewhere, or Khriss wouldn't have been able to leave. 

Spoilered for length and general cosmere.

We don't know much about the Avatars, how or why she forms them, if the Sand Lord or Skathen are one... 

For how Taldain itself is invested, we don't know exactly, but the Taldain essay in AU implies it's more complicated than simply the sunlight. 

So generally, when it comes to Autonomy and Taldain, we just don't know enough. 

Hmm, that lends credence to the atmosphere theory, "sunlight" but not necessarily the sun...? 

The Cognitive idea of the sun perhaps, as envisioned by the Ancient Egyptians, its image as it passes from horizon to horizon in our world, though it's static on TaldaIn.

@The traveller, there was a theory about the moon dispersing sunlight, with its accompanying particles and Investiture, and reflecting it into Darkside. That was very whacky and fun; there are many cool theories about Autonomy in general but not much we know for a fact.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Honorless

[Aon Tia]

It would make sense for a shard like autonomy to want to manifest In the form of a sun, autonomous in the space, an entire Entity onto itself, inaccessible, instead of investing on a planet. 

However, his perpendicularity then has to be somewhere near the equatorial region on the planet on the day side. 

If sands glow on the dayside due to microfauna, which is able to synthesis of sun rays into active investiture, then the presence of fluorescence among the flora on the dark side could definitely have a similar relation to investiture. 

As less as we know about it, it certainly is very interesting 

[Karger]

Particularities are not the only source of investiture in any given planet.  It could easily be just about anywhere.

[Honorless]

13 hours ago, Karger said:

Particularities are not the only source of investiture in any given planet.  It could easily be just about anywhere.

Perpendicularities aren't the only source of Investiture on any planet that we've seen. We weren't making that claim. Perpendicularities form when massive amounts of Investiture naturally pools together in an area, usually due to the presence of a Shard, that perforates through the Three Realms. Yes, it could be just about anywhere, it being in one certain place isn't necessarily indicative of a Shard's location (though that in itself is a tricky term, since Shards inhabit the Spiritual Realm, where distance and time are meaningless). Lack of a Perpendicularity isn't indicative of lack of Investiture either.

Those were just different theories on Autonomy's Perpendicularity or how she restricted travel to Taldain, or why Taldain would have been difficult to get to before even that. I'm sorry if what we were saying weren't clear enough. Those were unrelated theories with the only commonality being that they discussed Autonomy; I mentioned them because if Autonomy was the sun, then her Perpendicularity might be on the sun, which was a theory that I thought was relevant to this topic, as it might shed some light on Autonomy' effects if that were to be the case. There is also the WoB on there being a Shard which has not settled on any planet, which Brandon later adds include Ambition but he also clarifies that it was not the Shard he was talking about. Well, a star could be an alternative astrophysical medium for a Shard to settle in.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Honorless

[Karger]

I personally am pretty sure that Taldain has a perpendicularity somewhere on Darkside.

[Aon Tia]

12 minutes ago, Karger said:

I personally am pretty sure that Taldain has a perpendicularity somewhere on Darkside.

ok but why though? 

 

[Karger]

3 minutes ago, The traveller said:

ok but why though? 

Because their knock off LR lives there, because Khriss spends most of her time there, because we know nothing about there and because all of the earliest worldhoppers seem to be Darksiders not Daysiders.  In fact to the best of my knowledge we have seen no Daysider worldhopers.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Karger

[Aon Tia]

Ok these all are fair points 

[Wandering Investor]

I searched a bit for the quote, but couldn't find it. But, I recall reading somewhere that Autonomy may be heavily invested in the clouds that permanently circle Taldain, at least on the dayside. So the sunlight passing through the clouds gets charged, but the sun isn't the source. Not 100% if this is accurate or not though.

[Honorless]

1 minute ago, Wandering Investor said:

I searched a bit for the quote, but couldn't find it. But, I recall reading somewhere that Autonomy may be heavily invested in the clouds that permanently circle Taldain, at least on the dayside. So the sunlight passing through the clouds gets charged, but the sun isn't the source. Not 100% if this is accurate or not though.

Thank you, @Wandering Investor. Hmm, quite possible... what, with the faces in the clouds

[Karger]

On 10/23/2019 at 1:34 PM, Wandering Investor said:

I searched a bit for the quote, but couldn't find it. But, I recall reading somewhere that Autonomy may be heavily invested in the clouds that permanently circle Taldain, at least on the dayside. So the sunlight passing through the clouds gets charged, but the sun isn't the source. Not 100% if this is accurate or not though.

A good thought but incorrect.

Quote

Miscellaneous 2016 (June 29, 2016)
#3 June 29, 2016 Share Copy

 

 

Brandon Sanderson

Every Newsletter, I like to sit down and write something for you that will be a little different. Something that gives a window into what I’ve been doing lately, or things I’ve been thinking about.

Today, because of the White Sand release, I’ve been thinking a lot about the differences between Brandon the writer from the late 90’s (when the book was written) and today. I was 19 when I wrote the first draft of White Sand, and 24 when I wrote the second version (the one that was turned into the graphic novel.) Looking through it again, there is a lot about me and my writing that has changed.

The magic system is one. White Sand has a very cool magic system, where people control sand with their mind. The magic is powered by the water inside the person’s body, which is a neat system. You need to drink a lot in order to have power over the sand--but it’s on a tidally locked planet, where the sun never sets on that side of the world. (In fact, the sun recharges the sand’s power.) So everything is connected in a cool way. Sunlight recharges the sand, a person gives water to the sand (it’s actually a microscopic lichen-like substance living on the sand, and giving it its white color, that creates the magic. The Sand Master gives water to the lichen, fueling its magical life cycle, which in turn releases power that allows the Sand Master to control the sand.) But the sunlight also makes you more likely to dehydrate, which in turn stops you from being able to power the magic.

There is a more explicit WoB too but I can't find it right now.

[Calderis]

2 hours ago, Karger said:

A good thought but incorrect.

There is a more explicit WoB too but I can't find it right now.

Eh considering the quote from Khriss in the AU essay, I still think it's not that simple. 

[Karger]

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

Eh considering the quote from Khriss in the AU essay, I still think it's not that simple. 

I am referring to the WoB where he says that you can recharge sand on any planet provided photons from Taldain's star are hitting it.

[Kasimir]

On 10/25/2019 at 8:24 PM, Karger said:

I am referring to the WoB where he says that you can recharge sand on any planet provided photons from Taldain's star are hitting it.

 

Quote

 

swieczq

Would someone with enough knowledge be able to use Autonomy’s Investiture if Taldain’s star was seen from his world?

Brandon Sanderson

So I’m on a world and I see Taldain’s star, what you're asking if someone could use the Investiture? Oh, OK I see. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. That’s good! You stumped me. I haven’t gotten that question before. I would say yes, if the light particles are reaching you. I mean technically you could use the light from one of those stars to power a solar sail so…

Kraków signing (March 21, 2017) [URL link here]

 

This the one you were looking for?

[Karger]

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

This the one you were looking for?

Yes.

[Honorless]

And the confusion arises anew...

[Karger]

3 hours ago, Honorless said:

And the confusion arises anew...

What confusion?

[Honorless]

Where is Autonomy? Has she saturated Taldain itself with her Avatars then? Her star distributes her Investiture and she solidly manifests (or at least, fragments of her power do) on its planet... Where is Bavadin herself sequestered then? On her star? Or on her planet? It seems that the answer is the star (or at least mostly the star)

Edited November 1, 2019 by Honorless

[Karger]

2 hours ago, Honorless said:

Where is Autonomy? Has she saturated Taldain itself with her Avatars then? Her star distributes her Investiture and she solidly manifests (or at least, fragments of her power do) on its planet... Where is Bavadin herself sequestered then?

She has avatars everywhere and exists in the spiritual realm.  She is also a shard and therefor omnipresent.  Her avatars make places where she is more focused on.

[Calderis]

On 11/1/2019 at 11:40 AM, Karger said:

She has avatars everywhere and exists in the spiritual realm.  She is also a shard and therefor omnipresent.  Her avatars make places where she is more focused on.

She should be as limited as every other shard we seen. Not omnipresent. Not existing in the Spiritual. 

Her power resides there, and she has apparently learned to reach out through the Spiritual to create her Avatars... But as to where she is, the best we know so far is Taldain, and being invested (whether in the planet or the one or both of the stars) she should be bound to the system in the same manner as others. 

 

[Karger]

12 hours ago, Calderis said:

She should be as limited as every other shard we seen. Not omnipresent. Not existing in the Spiritual. 

But the shards are omnipresent.  Stasis can't exist without Preservation for example.  Shards do exist in the spiritual otherwise how did the Dor end up in the CR?  Dominion and Devotion certainly did not come from the CR.

12 hours ago, Calderis said:

Her power resides there, and she has apparently learned to reach out through the Spiritual to create her Avatars... But as to where she is, the best we know so far is Taldain, and being invested (whether in the planet or the one or both of the stars) she should be bound to the system in the same manner as others. 

Again,  What do you mean by where.  In HoA we saw a shard's perspective and they described it as moving a nexus.  For a shard moving is more like deciding to focus on something.

[Calderis]

7 minutes ago, Karger said:

But the shards are omnipresent.  Stasis can't exist without Preservation for example.  Shards do exist in the spiritual otherwise how did the Dor end up in the CR?  Dominion and Devotion certainly did not come from the CR.

The power of the Shard is. The mind clearly isn't. 

8 minutes ago, Karger said:

Again,  What do you mean by where.  In HoA we saw a shard's perspective and they described it as moving a nexus.  For a shard moving is more like deciding to focus on something.

Yes. And that "nexus," the actual mind of the Vessel of the Shard could only be in one place at once, and that is what is bound to a world. 

Looking into the Spiritual is easier for a shard than a mortal, but it's not even easy for them. If it were, Odium would never have need to "search" for Ambition. They'd both have been in the same place in the Spiritual t no matter what.