Guest Coda Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 So, the determinism vs free will argument is still going strong, so I came up with a question. <see title> IS THERE FREE WILL IN THE COSMERE? So everything has a soul, which is the free will argument, but does the existence of a soul dictate free will if even a rock has free will? Then again, the ability of the Stick to resist Soulcasting again implies free will. Next! Prophecy. Renarin's capability to foresee false events shows that there are false futures, so there are other futures. Of course, this could be him just being wrong about the one, singular future. As of yet, I have not actually determined whether or not there is free will in the Cosmere, so I would love to know what the brightest Cosmerian scholars have to say. Sharders, do your worst. Or best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Coda said: So, the determinism vs free will argument is still going strong, so I came up with a question. <see title> IS THERE FREE WILL IN THE COSMERE? There absolutely is. All futuresight, including atium, is best off of probability and can be changed. Gold allomancy shows that alternate pasts exist as well. 13 minutes ago, Coda said: So everything has a soul, which is the free will argument, but does the existence of a soul dictate free will if even a rock has free will? Then again, the ability of the Stick to resist Soulcasting again implies free will. Next! The Cognitive aspects of objects are are constructs built by the perception of living things. Soulcasting is a practiced art because any substrate can be learned to be manipulated. They don't truly have a "will" so much as a set function that can be manipulated. Stick, the ship, a rock. If you know how you can make all of them change easily. Shallan is just bad at Soulcasting. 16 minutes ago, Coda said: Prophecy. Renarin's capability to foresee false events shows that there are false futures, so there are other futures. Of course, this could be him just being wrong about the one, singular future. Again, see atium. We have watched the future actively changed by Vin. It is not deterministic. This is exactly what split atium shadows from conflicted users are. Fracturing lines of probability. On a meta level, of course its deterministic because it's traveling to and endpoint that Brandon's decided. But in world? Everything is malleable. Nothing is certain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 A free will debate goody. I certainly have free will not sure about the rest of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coda Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 Okay, I forgot about atium. But was there ever a probable future or was it just an alternate timeline? The multiverse theory doesn't disprove an unalterable timeline. Are those visions just reflections of other worlds that would have been? Think about free will as "Did you actually choose?" Peoples' personalities dictate their choices, and their personalities are dictated by their experiences, which are beyond their control. Vin "chose" to burn atium, but she did that because of her education by Kelsier who chose to do that because... What is the evidence for free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 @Coda when she didn't have atium, and used Zane's view of the future to change it. She reacted to his actions using atium and changed what would happen. In his vision, when she reacted, the shadow split. She altered the course that the "future" said she would take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coda Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 But was that her free will? Again, the deterministic argument is that the actions of the individual are caused entirely by external forces. Maybe the atium shadows are the probable actions of an individual in alternate, fixed timelines that are similar to the Cosmerian one. You are probably right though. Your points just destroy mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegy Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Coda said: But was that her free will? Again, the deterministic argument is that the actions of the individual are caused entirely by external forces. Maybe the atium shadows are the probable actions of an individual in alternate, fixed timelines that are similar to the Cosmerian one. That is actually a thing that the man himself disconfirmed: Quote Brandon Sanderson I wanted to avoid multi-verse theory type things in the Cosmere, in part because the Wheel of Time delved into these concepts, and even before working on the WoT was looking for ways to keep the Cosmere distinctive from it. Beyond that, multiverses (along with time travel) really play havoc with continuity. I felt the cosmere was stronger if I kept to the three Realms--that's complex enough. Assume that in the cosmere, while different possible futures/pasts do branch (and can be seen) things like Allomantic gold are NOT looking at other realities--and there is only one reality, once events actually occur. This does mean that time travel into the past is not going to be a factor in the cosmere. This separation does let me divide these concepts off and play with them in other realms (like the Reckoners) where they're 'quarantined' so to speak. Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 12, 2018) Edited October 17, 2019 by Elegy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elanmorin Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 On 10/15/2019 at 10:30 PM, Coda said: IS THERE FREE WILL IN THE COSMERE? No. All events and actions take place precisely as dictated by the creator, Brandon Sanderson. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Depending on what the extra thermodynamics rule is for the cosmere, hmm... Since we don't know what that rule is, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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