Vax

[GoWibble]

Has anyone past or future gotten anything out of Brandon Sanderson about Vax? It is mentioned breifly at the end of Elantris by Nazh, I think. 

What we know is:

Argent

Is Vax a planet?  It’s clearly suggested that it is.

Brandon Sanderson

What’s that?

Argent

It’s heavily suggested that it is.

Brandon Sanderson

It is heavily suggested that it is a place.

Argent

It's a place. Okay, I'll take that.

*talking to other attendees* Vax is a place.

Brandon Sanderson

No no, heavily suggested that it's a place, is what I said!

Calamity Chicago signing (Feb. 22, 2016)

I kind of want to know if Hoid has gone there

 

[Eternal Khol]

On 10/14/2019 at 7:13 AM, GoWibble said:

Has anyone past or future gotten anything out of Brandon Sanderson about Vax? It is mentioned breifly at the end of Elantris by Nazh, I think. 

What we know is:

Argent

Is Vax a planet?  It’s clearly suggested that it is.

Brandon Sanderson

What’s that?

Argent

It’s heavily suggested that it is.

Brandon Sanderson

It is heavily suggested that it is a place.

Argent

It's a place. Okay, I'll take that.

*talking to other attendees* Vax is a place.

Brandon Sanderson

No no, heavily suggested that it's a place, is what I said!

Calamity Chicago signing (Feb. 22, 2016)

I kind of want to know if Hoid has gone there

 

I've only seen what we we know already.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[+Oltux72]

15 hours ago, Karger said:

That does not exactly prove anything.

Right, but it is consistent. Ati may have assumed that he is dead. So we cannot just compare physical worlds. And we have to consider that Ati referred to a place that may be thousands of years in the past and changed since. I am afraid this line of reasoning is not very productive.
The only solid thing we have is Khris in the Ars Arcanum. It is also quite short.

[Honorless]

Why don't we lay down what we know:

1) A place (no matter how hard Brandon tries to obfuscate things)

2) Method of initiation into the magic system is different from Scadrial, Nalthis, Taldain or Sel (especially/specifically Elantris)

3) Preservation & Ruin have visited the world, most likely before creating Scadrial

4) Most likely a major Shardworld with how its magic is compared & contrasted, though might not be a 'world' in the conventional sense given Brandon's insistence

5) possibly has some similarities with Scadrial's subastral, eliciting a response from Ati

Edited January 28, 2020 by Honorless

[Config2]

1 minute ago, Honorless said:

Why don't we lay down what we know:

1) A place (no matter how hard Brandon tries to obfuscate things)

2) Method of initiation into the magic system is different from Scadrial, Nalthis, Taldain or Sel (especially/specifically Elantris)

3) Preservation & Ruin have visited the world, most likely before creating Scadrial

4) Most likely a major Shardworld with how its magic is compared & contrasted, though might not be a 'world' in the conventional sense given Brandon's insistence

5) possibly has some similarities with Scadrial's subastral, eliciting a response from Ati

I'm not sure we know that 3 is correct. We do know that at least Ati interacted with or knew of something called Vax at some point (probably before Scadrial).

I do agree with 4, except for the major part. It may be major however, we just don't know. Seems likely that it is an invested place at the very least.

On 5, it is worth noting the time differential. Ati was not sane until he was separated from the shard of Ruin. He is unclear on how much time has passed between his arrival on Scadrial and his death.

I think I've mentioned it already, but it would be weird if you woke up in an unknown place and just shouted "New York!" That makes me consider that Ati thinks he is addressing an individual. Given the time differential, we could be dealing with a place named after a person (who could be a shard/invested and still alive).  

Last thing, I think we have a WoB stating that Vax is not Hoid, but if it is a place only, that doesn't mean much.

[Eternal Khol]

On 1/28/2020 at 4:08 AM, Config2 said:

I'm not sure we know that 3 is correct. We do know that at least Ati interacted with or knew of something called Vax at some point (probably before Scadrial).

I do agree with 4, except for the major part. It may be major however, we just don't know. Seems likely that it is an invested place at the very least.

On 5, it is worth noting the time differential. Ati was not sane until he was separated from the shard of Ruin. He is unclear on how much time has passed between his arrival on Scadrial and his death.

I think I've mentioned it already, but it would be weird if you woke up in an unknown place and just shouted "New York!" That makes me consider that Ati thinks he is addressing an individual. Given the time differential, we could be dealing with a place named after a person (who could be a shard/invested and still alive).  

Last thing, I think we have a WoB stating that Vax is not Hoid, but if it is a place only, that doesn't mean much.

i think i saw a WoB or something that said that Leras would recognize Vax. that paired with the WoB that most shards have been to plenty of other worlds before settling.

i think its safe to say that Leras was there too

 

Diego98 (paraphrased)

Would Leras recognize Vax or is it just like some Ati backstory??

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yeah, he would recognize Vax.

Madrid signing (July 16, 2019) Edited January 29, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[+Oltux72]

On 28/01/2020 at 1:54 PM, Honorless said:

3) Preservation & Ruin have visited the world, most likely before creating Scadrial

But not necessarily together

On 28/01/2020 at 1:54 PM, Honorless said:

4) Most likely a major Shardworld with how its magic is compared & contrasted, though might not be a 'world' in the conventional sense given Brandon's insistence

5) possibly has some similarities with Scadrial's subastral, eliciting a response from Ati

Ati might have considered himself to be in the CR (for reason of death). So the similarity may be to Vax or the subastral of Vax.

For all we know it is a continent or country on Yolen.

[Config2]

21 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

i think i saw a WoB or something that said that Leras would recognize Vax. that paired with the WoB that most shards have been to plenty of other worlds before settling.

i think its safe to say that Leras was there too

 

Diego98 (paraphrased)

Would Leras recognize Vax or is it just like some Ati backstory??

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yeah, he would recognize Vax.

Madrid signing (July 16, 2019)

You're right, forgot about that one. Same issue applies that it may have been a person, not a place.

 

7 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Ati might have considered himself to be in the CR (for reason of death). So the similarity may be to Vax or the subastral of Vax.

I do think Ati probably realized that he was on a subastral. That doesn't imply that he was addressing Vax based on the fact that he was on a particular subastral. Again, it doesn't seem natural to me to just address a place when you appear there suddenly. Like I wouldn't say "White House?!" if I was transported there instantaneously. If Abraham Lincoln was right in front of me when I appeared, I would probably say, "Lincoln?!" 

It might be true that he believed that he could link the subastral to an individual; and that individual would possibly respond to a summons. That points me an ascended individual. Either that, or we are back to talking about a name applying to both a person and a place (with an implied link).

It's also very possible that this was just a poorly written piece of dialog which didn't take into account the natural reaction of a person to appearing suddenly in an unknown place. It is a relatively early Sanderson work. I tend to ere on the side of Sanderson knowing exactly what he is doing though, and his coy-ness about calling Vax a place makes me think that there is more to it.

 

Quote

For all we know it is a continent or country on Yolen.

If it is just a place, I'm guessing that a continent/place on Yolen is possible. There is a little bit of background here. Not to get off topic here, but Ati and Leras seemed super close friends (with a possible romantic angle, which is how I choose to read the situation). So while we can safely assume any gathering of 5+ shards implies Yolen; I think that just the two of them travelling around together and encountering a place or person called Vax before creating Scadrial is also possible. There is definitely a WoB which says that most of the shards wandered around before settling down.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Config2
This line is in Secret History, not in Hero of Ages, so its more recent work. Credit to Weltall for the catch!

[Config2]

15 minutes ago, Elegy said:

I'm reluctant to repeat what I wrote a page ago, but ... given that Vax is listed in a row with planets, planets and planets in the Elantris Ars Arcanum makes it highly unlikely that it's anything else than a planet as well - not to mention a place. Sure, it's certainly possible to twist around the words so that it might mean something else (like a person) under certain circumstances, but I don't see why Khriss would phrase it in such a counterintuitive way in those cases.

Just to be clear: I think it is safe to assume that Vax is currently (Ars Arcanum time of writing) at least a planet (or of planet-like significance, like the only habitable city on a planet, or a habitable sub-astral more significant than the Ire Keep in Secret History, or the largest continent on Yolen). 

However, circumstance is important. There is a Washington street in my city. If Benjamin Franklin is saying "Washington" there is a solid chance his is talking about George Washington. If I say "Washington" there is a solid chance I am talking about the street in my city, or the city in my country, or the state in my country. This example speaks to exactly how Vax could refer to a person at one time, and a place at another time. In fact, I could even be talking about George Washington if I was to say "Washington." This further muddles the certainty that Ati is referring to place-Vax vs. person-Vax.

I do definitely agree that Khriss at least was referring to a place when she wrote the Ars Arcanum. I don't agree that her writing proves Ati was talking about a place.

[Weltall]

5 hours ago, Config2 said:

It's also very possible that this was just a poorly written piece of dialog which didn't take into account the natural reaction of a person to appearing suddenly in an unknown place. It is a relatively early Sanderson work. I tend to ere on the side of Sanderson knowing exactly what he is doing though, and his coy-ness about calling Vax a place makes me think that there is more to it.

Secret History was written in 2016, making it one of Brandon's most recent works. The other place Vax is mentioned came out the year prior and was celebrating the tenth anniversary of his first published work. I'm pretty sure Brandon knew exactly what he was doing with that line of dialogue and I'm even more certain that he doesn't want to tell us what it is yet.

[Eternal Khol]

3 hours ago, Config2 said:

Just to be clear: I think it is safe to assume that Vax is currently (Ars Arcanum time of writing) at least a planet (or of planet-like significance, like the only habitable city on a planet, or a habitable sub-astral more significant than the Ire Keep in Secret History, or the largest continent on Yolen). 

However, circumstance is important. There is a Washington street in my city. If Benjamin Franklin is saying "Washington" there is a solid chance his is talking about George Washington. If I say "Washington" there is a solid chance I am talking about the street in my city, or the city in my country, or the state in my country. This example speaks to exactly how Vax could refer to a person at one time, and a place at another time. In fact, I could even be talking about George Washington if I was to say "Washington." This further muddles the certainty that Ati is referring to place-Vax vs. person-Vax.

I do definitely agree that Khriss at least was referring to a place when she wrote the Ars Arcanum. I don't agree that her writing proves Ati was talking about a place.

I just don’t see Vax being a person. Khriss mentions it/them in the “initiation” section of the Ars Arcanum. So unless This “vax” has their very own magic system and their own way to initiate it, then it’s not a person.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Config2]

Just now, Eternal Khol said:

I just don’t see Vax being a person. Khriss mentions it/them in the “initiation” section of the Ars Arcanum. So unless Vax has their very own magic system and their own way to initiate it, then it’s not a person.

The Vax that Ati is talking about could be different from the Vax that Khriss is talking about. That's the basis of my point.

I think we can agree, that if they are different things, then the naming is not coincidental.

Given the circumstances and the two speakers, it seems like the Vax that Ati mentions predates the Vax that Khriss mentions. 

We know that the Vax that Khriss mentions is a place. As Ati-Vax predates Khriss-Vax, we can't assume anything about Ati-Vax from her statement. I.e. A implies B, but B doesn't imply A.

That leaves only the situation in which Ati says "Vax?" which I've argued seems like a person's name.

[GoWibble]

Hello thread again! I'm rereading secret history as of now, so I'll see if I can Quote the entire passage here for clarification. 

[GoWibble]

Quote

Ruin stood nearby, blinking. Or... no, it wasn't Ruin any longer. It was just the Vessel, Ati. The man who held the power. Ati ran his hand through his red hair, then looked about. "Vax?" he said, sounding confused. 

"Excuse me, " Kelsier said to Vin, then released her and trotted over to the red haired man. 

Whereupon he decked the man across the face, laying him out completely. 

Then Ati went to the beyond. 

[Elegy]

I'm reluctant to repeat what I wrote a page ago, but ... given that Vax is listed in a row with planets, planets and planets in the Elantris Ars Arcanum makes it highly unlikely that it's anything else than a planet as well - not to mention a place. Sure, it's certainly possible to twist around the words so that it might mean something else (like a person) under certain circumstances, but I don't see why Khriss would phrase it in such a counterintuitive way in those cases.