Kalaksbreath

why is aluminum resistant to investiture?

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why is aluminum resistant to investiture? I'm probably gonna get a lot of people saying that this question got RAFOed but what are some of the theories floating out there.

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There's one theory that it was Adonalsium's godmetal (even though it's probably not). There's a lot of theories. 

I just wish we knew. 

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7 minutes ago, Invocation said:

There's one theory that it was Adonalsium's godmetal (even though it's probably not). There's a lot of theories. 

I just wish we knew. 

I heard that it was the metal used to kill Adonalsium.

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3 minutes ago, Kalaksbreath said:

I heard that it was the metal used to kill Adonalsium.

Yeah, that's another one. I think I heard one that it comes from outside the star cluster/dwarf galaxy (did we ever get a definitive answer as to which applies?) that makes up the cosmere.

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Why are particles with mass attracted to each other?

Or if you must.  Why is space limited and why does it curve when an object with mass rests in it?

Edited by Karger
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i think brandon picked aluminium because it's super rare with early technology, but super abundant later. he knew his magic systems would get overpowered with advanced use, and he wanted to put in a limitation that would only arrive later in the tech three.

 

as for in-universe reason, i don't think there's one given. it's probably just the way things are. like the exhistance of gravity

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On 11/10/2019 at 10:14 PM, Kalaksbreath said:

I heard that it was the metal used to kill Adonalsium.

I would think it was the metal used to kill Adonalsium because it's resistant to investiture, not that it is resistant to investiture because it was used to kill Adonalsium :)

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On 10/11/2019 at 2:14 PM, Kalaksbreath said:

I heard that it was the metal used to kill Adonalsium.

Do you happen to have the citation for that?

 

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4 hours ago, RShara said:

Do you happen to have the citation for that?

 

I saw it in a forum a couple of days ago I'll try to find the specific quote though. 

 

(edit) sorry I can't seem to find it.

Edited by Kalaksbreath
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Note don't quote me on this(figuratively not literally.) but I saw a you tube theory where he proposed that aluminum was evidence of a anti-adolisium that he said was confirmed by Brandon(if you have a WoB that would be great.) personally I like that I also think aluminum is a counter to Adolisium and also theorize that he(adolisium) could have been a metal the stem -ium is really clear.

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Brandon did at one point say that there was an "anti-adonalsium" but he's since clarified that people took that to literally and that that could apply to a group of people... Perhaps those who went about killing him. 

Quote

Eric

In Secret History we learn the 16 Shards that Shattered Adonalsium. Was that done [on behalf of the anti-Adonalsium force]?

Brandon Sanderson

You’re focusing too much on this idea of an anti-Adonalsium. It—the original question I believe that was asked me was “is there a force that is opposed to Adonalsium” and it left me a lot of wiggle room. In other words, the people who killed Adonalsium, you could say were a force, any person who opposed Adonalsium... What they were trying to get was a “devil” but to do that you must assume Adonalsium was a more Christian-style God, and I haven’t confirmed any of that.

Calamity Chicago signing (Feb. 22, 2016)

We don't know why aluminum does what it does but it is highly resistant to investiture. Not impossible to effect, just ridiculously resistant. 

Quote

ChickenBites

Can you Soulcast aluminum into other materials?

Brandon Sanderson

Aluminum would strongly resist any sort of Soulcasting.

Billy Todd

Would that resistance be overcome? Could be overcome?

Brandon Sanderson

This is the question. Everything can be, right? Aluminum, in the cosmere, was created. And can be created. So, people ask me this, "Can? Cannot?" Like, with a powerful enough magnet in our world, what can you do? Like, is water magnetic? ...But, could you make water respond to a magnet? Yes! You can make anything if you really try hard enough... It's, like, this idea, that when people are like, "Can you, yes or no?" Well... yes! Would it take the power of six Shards of Adonalsium working together? Maybe! Can you? Yes, you probably can. Like, we're talking about a fantasy universe where almost anything is possible, and the impossibilities are contradictions, it's "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" sort of questions when you get into "can you?"

Now, could you Soulcast aluminum using a reasonable amount of energy that an individual could conceivably have in a normal setting and situation? No. If that's what you're looking for.

JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018)

 

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I've always wondered that...

As for it being Adonalsium's god metal:

Spoiler

wasn't the Bridge Four storyline transplanted from Dragonsteel? They were waging war in the Yolish version of the Shattered Plains for the eponymous metal called 'Dragonsteel', weren't they?

I liked the theory that it was used to kill Adonalsium.

We've seen it reacting negatively to Investiture before with Nightblood's sheath being made of that metal, the Voidspren having trouble finding the Soulcaster hiding within walls of this metal, itself being resistant to Soulcasting and possibly Forgery (as Ralkalest).

Aluminium (which is what the rest of us call it) does have powers in the metallic art of Feruchemy (Allomancy and Hemalurgy seem to have it as reacting negatively to Investiture, metabolizing all ingested metals and removing all powers, respectively). Feruchemy, on the other hand, uses it to store Identity.

Wait a minute...

Spoiler

Huh, the theory of it being used to kill Adonalsium seems more likely now:

The Shards are pieces of his Identity, his personality, his Cognitive self acting as a filter between his physical creation/body (the Cosmere) and Spiritual Investiture

Or so goes my headcanon anyway

Edited by Honorless
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2 hours ago, Honorless said:

We've seen it reacting negatively to Investiture before with Nightblood's sheath being made of that metal, the Voidspren having trouble finding the Soulcaster hiding within walls of this metal, itself being resistant to Soulcasting and possibly Forgery (as Ralkalest).

  Reveal hidden contents

Huh, the theory of it being used to kill Adonalsium seems more likely now:

The Shards are pieces of his Identity, his personality, his Cognitive self acting as a filter between his physical creation/body (the Cosmere) and Spiritual Investiture

I am pretty sure the metal of which Nightblood's sheath is made of is of is still RAFO (tho the best quote have to offer is one where Brandon say it may not be silver https://wob.coppermind.net/events/139-general-signed-books-2017/#e5131)

Also we must remember that aluminium is NOT the only investiture-resistant metal, there are also silver (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/175-oathbringer-houston-signing/#e8423) and whatever the shardblades's sheath are made of (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/261-oathbringer-edinburgh-signing/#e8780) So it is very possible it used to be just a bit stronger than silver (enough that using it to shatter Adonalsium would seems like a feasible idea) and then got better because it was used to kill Adonalsium (but then we need an explanation as for why it was resistant in the first place)

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Just now, mathiau said:

I am pretty sure the metal of which Nightblood's sheath is made of is of is still RAFO (tho the best quote have to offer is one where Brandon say it may not be silver

It's been confirmed. 

Quote

Questioner

What metal is Nightblood's sheath made out of?

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood's sheath is aluminum.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

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Just now, Calderis said:

It's been confirmed. 

 

Well thank you for that information :)

(tho I've always felt like Szeth was using it sheathed and it cut through thing by magic, which is odd if it's an aluminium sheath)

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2 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Well thank you for that information :)

(tho I've always felt like Szeth was using it sheathed and it cut through thing by magic, which is odd if it's an aluminium sheath)

The two times he's cut through things magically, Nightblood was definitely unsheathed.

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Just now, RShara said:

The two times he's cut through things magically, Nightblood was definitely unsheathed.

Ah, my bad

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@mathiau, Extesian has a good theory on silver in his topic, "Silver in the Cosmere". Perhaps you would be interested?

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40 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Well thank you for that information :)

(tho I've always felt like Szeth was using it sheathed and it cut through thing by magic, which is odd if it's an aluminium sheath)

If I recall correctly, in Warbreaker it was only partially unsheathed and still managed to be shoved into a persons chest, and WOB has it that even partially drawn his whole form, including the Aluminum Sheath become a Weapon, and that the form doesnt matter much.  That being said, I believe that @RShara is correct that every time it's done the full black-smoke realmic attack that pops people it was fully drawn and shouting DESTROY!!.

 

 

Quote

 

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood

Nightblood's name, by the way, is supposed to sound kind of like the names of the Returned. I played with various different ways for his powers to manifest. I liked the idea of him driving those who hold him to kill anyone nearby. It seemed to work with the concepts that have come before—a kind of unholy, sentient mix of Stormbringer and the One Ring.

The strangest thing about him is the idea that his form isn't that important. The sheath is like a binding for him, keeping his power contained. So drawing him out isn't like drawing a regular weapon, but rather an unleashing of a creature who has been kept chained.

Once that creature is unleashed, he becomes a weapon—even if he's unleashed only a little bit. The sheath itself turns into a weapon, twisting those around it. You don't need to stab someone with Nightblood to kill them; smashing them on the back with the sheath works just as well. It will crunch bones, but beyond that, merely touching them with the sheath when the smoke is leaking can be deadly.

Warbreaker Annotations (Feb. 7, 2011)

 

 
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Just now, Quantus said:

If I recall correctly, in Warbreaker it was only partially unsheathed and still managed to be shoved into a persons chest, and WOB has it that even partially drawn his whole form, including the Aluminum Sheath become a Weapon, and that the form doesnt matter much.  That being said, I believe that @RShara is correct that every time it's done the full black-smoke realmic attack that pops people it was fully drawn and shouting DESTROY!!.

Yep, there are multiple times, when Vasher has it, where he throws it at people, they pick it up and draw it an inch or so, and end up killing a bunch of others, ending up with the sheath rammed through their own chest.

I was just answering the specific question about Szeth--the only time he has sliced people with Nightblood, he's drawn it fully. I doubt Szeth knows about the throw-him-at-people-to-see-if-they-think-they're-evil trick.

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1 minute ago, RShara said:

Yep, there are multiple times, when Vasher has it, where he throws it at people, they pick it up and draw it an inch or so, and end up killing a bunch of others, ending up with the sheath rammed through their own chest.

I was just answering the specific question about Szeth--the only time he has sliced people with Nightblood, he's drawn it fully. I doubt Szeth knows about the throw-him-at-people-to-see-if-they-think-they're-evil trick.

I know, I didnt mean to imply you were incorrect or anything. I mostly just wanted to add that WOB, I find it particularly interesting that even being made of Aluminum, Nightblood can exert himself through the sheath once released.   Dear lord, I want to see the inevitable Vasher/Nightblood reunion. 

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Just now, Quantus said:

I know, I didnt mean to imply you were incorrect or anything. I mostly just wanted to add that WOB, I find it particularly interesting that even being made of Aluminum, Nightblood can exert himself through the sheath once released.   Dear lord, I want to see the inevitable Vasher/Nightblood reunion. 

Yeah NIghtblood is freaky!

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2 minutes ago, RShara said:

Yep, there are multiple times, when Vasher has it, where he throws it at people, they pick it up and draw it an inch or so, and end up killing a bunch of others, ending up with the sheath rammed through their own chest.

I was just answering the specific question about Szeth--the only time he has sliced people with Nightblood, he's drawn it fully. I doubt Szeth knows about the throw-him-at-people-to-see-if-they-think-they're-evil trick.

Actually what I meant by "magically" was that killing people with a sheathed sword supposed to be very hard (you must kill by blunt force with a 1kg object not meant for that) so I expected that "killing with the sheath on" was one of Nightblood powers

Also thank @Honorless for the Sliver topic :)

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