what powers will the nightwatcher give?

[Kalaksbreath]

I just want to hear some theories as to what powers the nightwatcher will grant? A thought that I had is that she may be able to uncorrupt spren because of her connection to cultivation it seems to me that a lot of spren have a connection to cultivation. (I may be off base on this one and if there is already a forum on this sorry).

[Aon Tia]

surge of adhesion

surge of tension

[Honorless]

Probably in a different manner than how the Stormfather does, though.

I mean, for Windrunners, the Surge of Adhesion is the Surge of Pressure & Vacuum, because his powers come from Honorspren & Windspren, who are said to be cousins to the former; while for Bondsmiths Adhesion is the manipulation of the Spiritual aspects of Connection and Identity.

If each of the Orders manifest their Surges in a slightly different manner, also noting that the Bondsmiths bond with unique spren, then that should mean that how the Nightwatcher or the Sibling's Radiants' powers manifest might be subtly different from that of the Stormfather's Radiant. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Honorless

[Aon Tia]

The way surges work may not be that different for bondsmiths but I think it will be cool if it does

however she may also grant some new powers 

[Frustration]

This also doesn't take into account the power she actually could give Taravigains intellect and Lift's power set, the only thing I'm aware of that she can't do is help someone forgive themselves.

[Aon Tia]

Yes but how is this ability to give curses and bond going to lead to extra powers for her radiant? It must in someway but what? 

Besides how latest is this curse boon thing? Had she always been doing that or it’s a recent thing. 

Will he r bondsmith also grant boons and curses? Or is it that she will get better at understanding the wishes of people and become more efficient at granting them

[Calderis]

Why would the Nightwatcher abilities change what her Radiant is capable of? 

The Stormfather, the Nightwatcher, and the Sibling, are all Bondsmith spren. They will provide the same Surges to the three members of their order 

While I admit I find it odd that the three unique spren produce the same Surges, that is what sets them apart as an order. 

What I really really really will question is if the Oaths will be the same... The oaths of a Radiant arise directly from the nature of the spren... And those three spren do not have anything in the way of the same nature. 

While there may be some side effects that are particular to the each spren, like Dalinar's use of the Stormfather's sight when Connecting to Shallan to make the Illumination map of Roshar... That's not really a different power. 

What the Nightwatcher does for her boons and curses is her own thing, and I don't think it will change the nature of her Radiant. 

(side tangent, but I don't believe for a second Taravangian is a Nightwatcher project. That's all Cultivation.) 

[Solant]

I think the assumption that each of the bondsmith spren would give unique powers is probably linked to the idea that each one is some kind of godspren with each one associated with a separate shard, but since OB I'm not sure that is the case. I think Dalinars visions are unique to the storm father due to Tanavasts CS, and I wouldn't be surprised if the other two didn't grant an otherwise identical power set to the other bondsmiths.

[Aon Tia]

Has it been confirmed that tanavasts CS has merged into stormfather. 

I guess this is the one right? 

Questioner

Does the spren have to be present for a Surgebinder to have their abilities? Because with Dalinar, the Stormfather won’t be around all the time...

Brandon Sanderson

Good Question! Fortunately, the Stormfather is a little more omnipresent. Normally you’re gonna have to have your spren close, but the Stormfather absorbed... is basically Honor’s Cognitive Shadow, which means he’s got a connection to a lot of different things, so he’s not bound by a lot of the rules that others are.

 

#bondsmiths #cognitive shadows #connection #honor #stormfather

Sources: Theoryland google doc report

Edited October 15, 2019 by The traveller

[Aon Tia]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Why would the Nightwatcher abilities change what her Radiant is capable of? 

The Stormfather, the Nightwatcher, and the Sibling, are all Bondsmith spren. They will provide the same Surges to the three members of their order 

While I admit I find it odd that the three unique spren produce the same Surges, that is what sets them apart as an order. 

What I really really really will question is if the Oaths will be the same... The oaths of a Radiant arise directly from the nature of the spren... And those three spren do not have anything in the way of the same nature. 

While there may be some side effects that are particular to the each spren, like Dalinar's use of the Stormfather's sight when Connecting to Shallan to make the Illumination map of Roshar... That's not really a different power. 

What the Nightwatcher does for her boons and curses is her own thing, and I don't think it will change the nature of her Radiant. 

(side tangent, but I don't believe for a second Taravangian is a Nightwatcher project. That's all Cultivation.) 

I agree. My first reply was that they will be given surges of adhesion and tension. 

but is there going to anything extra? Something cultivation related may be? 

[Bigmikey357]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Why would the Nightwatcher abilities change what her Radiant is capable of? 

The Stormfather, the Nightwatcher, and the Sibling, are all Bondsmith spren. They will provide the same Surges to the three members of their order 

While I admit I find it odd that the three unique spren produce the same Surges, that is what sets them apart as an order. 

What I really really really will question is if the Oaths will be the same... The oaths of a Radiant arise directly from the nature of the spren... And those three spren do not have anything in the way of the same nature. 

While there may be some side effects that are particular to the each spren, like Dalinar's use of the Stormfather's sight when Connecting to Shallan to make the Illumination map of Roshar... That's not really a different power. 

What the Nightwatcher does for her boons and curses is her own thing, and I don't think it will change the nature of her Radiant. 

(side tangent, but I don't believe for a second Taravangian is a Nightwatcher project. That's all Cultivation.) 

A Cryptic is a Cryptic regardless. An Honorspren is an Honorspren regardless and ect...The only common thread with the big 3 is that they hold more Investiture than a normal Nahel Spren. They have their own side jobs when not being burdened by a bond. SF creates the planetary ecosystem, Sib runs a magic city, NW gives out strange boons and curses. We know from Brandon that interaction of powers create Resonances. Now we don't know what the common Resonance is for Bondsmiths besides the fact that they get one. But I think they get a separate Resonance unique to the interaction between Bondsmith and Godspren depending on which Bondsmith they're bonded to. Three powers aren't enough for interference to cancel Resonances. So I fully expect for whoever emerges as NW's Bondsmith to have some power unique to him or her. I don't think it's going to be boons and curses but it could be something related. 

[Solant]

1 hour ago, The traveller said:

Has it been confirmed that tanavasts CS has merged into stormfather. 

I guess this is the one right?

That's the one (there may be more, I'm not sure)

[Calderis]

18 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Three powers aren't enough for interference to cancel Resonances.

We don't actually know this because we don't k ow where the cutoff is. 

19 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

But I think they get a separate Resonance unique to the interaction between Bondsmith and Godspren depending on which Bondsmith they're bonded to.

Resonance is supposed to be something internal to the individual through use of their powers, regardless of the source (the Honorblades give the same resonance as spren for example), and the only powers we know bondsmiths get are Tension and Adhesion. 

I'll believe that there's a difference in Bondsmith powers when I see it. 

[Aon Tia]

30 minutes ago, Calderis said:

 

I'll believe that there's a difference in Bondsmith powers when I see it. 

Ok I agree but still it is confirmed that the way these surges work for bondsmiths is way way more than how they work for windrunners and stonewards. How exactly are they more, how much, it is fun to think about. 

Also how different orders sharing a common surge, use these surges differently so also I think for the three bondsmiths probably these three surges work differently. 

And the very reason there were so few bondsmiths is because I think they are too powerful. It is a means of maintaining balance. 

So also I will not be surprised if each bondsmith gets something unique too. I think it is plausible. These are godspren with vast powers. 

[Calderis]

Just now, The traveller said:

Also how different orders sharing a common surge, use these surges differently so also I think for the three bondsmiths probably these three surges work differently. 

Excluding Bondsmiths, I've yet to see how they work differently. Szeth uses gravitation in exactly the same was as Kaladin. Soulcasting is the same for Shallan and Jasnah. Progression is the same for Lift and Renarin. 

The only non-bondsmith who seems to have any issues in that regard is Renarin... And I believe that there are clearly other reason for that. 

4 minutes ago, The traveller said:

And the very reason there were so few bondsmiths is because I think they are too powerful. It is a means of maintaining balance. 

I mean... I agree to a point, but I think that's purely a result of a limited number of spren that were viable. 

5 minutes ago, The traveller said:

So also I will not be surprised if each bondsmith gets something unique too. I think it is plausible. These are godspren with vast powers.

I just... I don't see anything yet that Dalinar has done that seems unique to the Stormfather outside if the map, which required not only him and the Stormfather, but a Radiant with Illumination. And even that was in line with the powers we know he has be creating a Connection to the Stormfather. 

I'm not saying I don't think they will be unable to have some niche unique effects because of their spren... But I don't agree their going to get a whole new ability. 

[Isilel]

3 hours ago, Calderis said:

I just... I don't see anything yet that Dalinar has done that seems unique to the Stormfather outside if the map,

Filling gems with stormlight? While what happened at Thaylenah was unique, there is a WoB that the Bondsmiths of old had been able to do so as well, in a more limited way. I underlined the pertinent quotes:

 

 

Quote

 

Questioner

Dalinar Ascends, right? Like, right then, there.

Brandon Sanderson

I have RAFO'd that. Whether he is Ascending or not is a RAFO.

Questioner

Okay, because I know he kind of mentions from that, I don't know how to say his name but the older guy who has the Diagram--

Brandon Sanderson

Taravangian, yeah. Whether that deserves to be a capital "A" or not is a matter of argument. It can be disputed.

Questioner

I guess my main question would just be Dalinar's now able to pull Stormlight and give it to people now.

Brandon Sanderson

He definitely can. That is a Bondsmith power, so.

Questioner

That is a Bondsmith power, okay.

Brandon Sanderson

That is specifically a Bondsmith power.

Questioner

Because my roommate was saying well, the Stormfather was surprised he could do that or was the Stormfather surprised that he was able to bridge--

Brandon Sanderson

He was surprised by what was happening to Dalinar as a whole.

Questioner

Oh okay, that's what I thought because I was like, because I felt like the Stormlight, that power would be a Bondsmith power.

Brandon Sanderson

Let's say that the Stormfather and Odium were seeing something in Dalinar that, perhaps, the average person watching even who is knowledgeable about Surges would not completely understand... But he will be able to use that power and Bondsmiths in the past have used that same power.

Footnote: Brandon clarified that he might have been unintentionally misleading in his answers to this question during his Stormlight 4 Update 1.
Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

 

 

 

And it would make sense to me if only those bonded to the SF had this ability, given that Stormlight is pure Honor's investiture, so it would be inconsistent if the Nightwatcher or even the Sibling could channel it. I assume that they provide something else to their bondmates instead.

 

3 hours ago, Calderis said:

which required not only him and the Stormfather, but a Radiant with Illumination. And even that was in line with the powers we know he has be creating a Connection to the Stormfather. 

I imagine that all Godspren are plugged into Rosharan ecosystem in some way, so that the other 2 could have produced a similar effect, but seen from a different perspective.

there is also this concerning Bondsmith power interactions with other Orders:

 

Quote

 

LerasiumMistborn

You said Bondsmiths can boost other Radiants' powers. That moment when Dalinar helped Shallan a create a map. Can he do it with all Radiants? And this “boost” is always different with each Order?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, and yes.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 19, 2018)

 

 

 

 

[Calderis]

3 hours ago, Isilel said:

Filling gems with stormlight? While what happened at Thaylenah was unique, there is a WoB that the Bondsmiths of old had been able to do so as well, in a more limited way. I underlined the pertinent quotes:

 

3 hours ago, Isilel said:

And it would make sense to me if only those bonded to the SF had this ability, given that Stormlight is pure Honor's investiture, so it would be inconsistent if the Nightwatcher or even the Sibling could channel it. I assume that they provide something else to their bondmates instead.

I'm well aware of that WoB, and I think it's just a Bondsmith power in general. 

For one, I don't believe that a system stormlight is pure Honor (or the Stormfather). Secondly, Lift shows us that even if it is, Cultivation can access it. Lift has the ability to access stormlight via food. Whether that was through the Nightwatcher or Cultivation directly, they aren't barred from granting that access. 

3 hours ago, Isilel said:

I imagine that all Godspren are plugged into Rosharan ecosystem in some way, so that the other 2 could have produced a similar effect, but seen from a different perspective

I believe they are as well, but I don't think that's going to create an alternative power set. 

3 hours ago, Isilel said:

there is also this concerning Bondsmith power interactions with other Orders:

While not confirmed, I believe that is the Bondsmith resonance. 

Adhesion to forge a Connection. Tension to strengthen what's produced. 

[Bigmikey357]

@Calderis

Even though we disagree on pretty much everything it's fun debating Cosmere with you. For my part, it just makes sense for a SF Bondsmith to have something unique to them apart from the standard powers and Resonance common to all Bondsmiths. The same for NW or Sib. Resonance is caused by the interaction of two powers right? Well the Honorblade and the corresponding Spren blade convey those powers so of course the resonance will be the same. But a Spren bond is about a mortal merging souls with a piece of investiture. If my soul is getting mixed in with the NW, why would I not get a piece of her side job in the blending? Now NW and SF are distinctly different Spren, different abilities and all that. They seemed jammed into a system that they're too big for. So there's gonna be a lot of spillover. Now I don't know what form that spillover will take, whether it is a just a quirk or a full on ability that can react to the Bond as a resonance, but I am certain that the Bondsmiths get something extra depending on which Godspren they're bonded to. 

As far as the interference question, I think three powers is a safe bet as being under the threshold. Medallions have up to 3 powers, Soulcaster fabrials do too.

[Honorless]

*smugness* 

[Karger]

I can't explain this very well but Dalinar seems to have a put everything back in order type deal.  I wonder if the NW will grant some kind of mix and match.  IE given all the parts of a ship that are usually combined a certain way could create an entirely new type of ship with different rigging and hull design.

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, Karger said:

I can't explain this very well but Dalinar seems to have a put everything back in order type deal.  I wonder if the NW will grant some kind of mix and match.  IE given all the parts of a ship that are usually combined a certain way could create an entirely new type of ship with different rigging and hull design.

Re-Re-Re-(Shephir)mix!

I imagine that Bondsmith would be good at making new Fabrial designs, at least on the spren side of the devices rather than the concrete applications.

[Storyspren]

None, because Lift is actually the Nightwatcher. Cultivation is her mother, whose end she experienced via Fortune. Snip, snip, prune prune and she is human looking but keeps her warped Nightwatcher sense of humor and fairness. I will die on this head cannon.