Ixthos

Why spren temporarily lose their minds when they travel to the physical realm

16 posts in this topic

I think the reason is - simply - that their cognitive bodies lose a lot of their mass when they cross over, and as their mass in the cognitive realm is their mind, their minds become their bodies, and so their minds are mostly gone. However, a portion of their minds remains behind, due to every distinct physical object that is seen as something distinct has a presence in the cognitive realm, and so they retain a small amount of themselves due to this part that is left behind, but still linked to them. As they grow again, their minds maturing with their Surgebinder providing a base to grow from, their cognitive components expand again, and so they regain the cognitive organs - like the capacity for memory, thought, complex emotions, etc. - along with a portion of the pattern for human minds added to them due to their spiritual foundation now including those parts as well, and so their ability to think in human ways grows. However, how do they regain their memories? Simple - either the memories also have a spiritual component which, as their minds mature and grow again, can be reconnected to, or their memories are now part of their physical bodies (or as close to physical as their new bodies can be) and they slowly transition back into their rebuild minds.

 

This also can explain why some spren retain their minds even when crossing over - if they have been given extra "mass" then when they cross over that extra mass is what does so, and so the rest of them can remain behind and continue to function as the cognitive organs for their new bodies.

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I agree that their Cognitive is reduced to create their physical presence. 

I think what happens with the bond, and why they grow and regain their memories is because the interweaving of the Spiritual aspects of the spren and their bondmate allows them to piggyback on the physical aspect of their Radiant. 

And I think this is precisely the problem with Deadeyes. The bond was unnaturally severed and left them in a state that they are supposed to have a fully Physical aspect in the blade, but they don't have the makeup to support that... So they become the blade, and their Cognitive is reduced to a basically catatonic state. 

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somewhat unrelated but why can void spren keep their consciousness when they are in the physical realm without a bond. 

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1 hour ago, Kalaksbreath said:

somewhat unrelated but why can void spren keep their consciousness when they are in the physical realm without a bond. 

Probably because they aren't Spren, but souls of parshmen, powered with Odium's investiture. They do suffer though, as some are going insane.

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6 hours ago, Calderis said:

And I think this is precisely the problem with Deadeyes. The bond was unnaturally severed and left them in a state that they are supposed to have a fully Physical aspect in the blade, but they don't have the makeup to support that... So they become the blade, and their Cognitive is reduced to a basically catatonic state

This description is interesting. It reminds me vaguely of what happens when a limb is struck with a shardblade, only the realms are reversed

Edited by Solant
Typo
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4 hours ago, Vindo said:

I think it will be that Skar and Drehy hadn't yet sworn the oaths at the end of Oathbringer but will during the 1 year time gap. 

Do you think the reason why they might not have sworn the oath yet is because they could not attract honor spren in alethkar because it has been taken over by voidbringers. Venli had timbre because she had already attracted her before coming to alethkar

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1 hour ago, Solant said:

@TheTraveler did that post to the wrong thread?

Wow how did that happen 

how did I quote someone from that thread and still posted it here???

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5 minutes ago, The traveller said:

how did I quote someone from that thread and still posted it here???

Haha, I'm not sure

I thought I hit the back button and went to the other one by mistake :lol:

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2 hours ago, Naurock said:

Probably because they aren't Spren, but souls of parshmen, powered with Odium's investiture. They do suffer though, as some are going insane.

i think that voidspren are spren of odium. Fused are the cognitive shadows of ancient singers that have been suffused with odium investiture so much that they do not pass on and at the time of highstorms earlier and now also during everstorms, they find their way back to physical realm as long as they can find a willing singer.

Voidspren are not same as fused at all. Ulim or yixli are not fused. They have been confused to be such sometimes in-world because we know more than people in-world.

i also think that voidspren probably retain their mental capacities better because they are connected to odium who is expanding/strengthning/connecting  their spiritual aspect enabling them better presence in physical realm.

However, it may be possible that not all the voidspren are as self-aware as ulim or yixli.

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Most aren't it seems, the ones that grant the Forms of Power are not sapient.

As for why spren like Yxli and Ullim are able to retain their minds in the Physical Realm on their own, I really don't have a guess beyond "Odium made them that way."

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2 hours ago, CrazyRioter said:

Most aren't it seems, the ones that grant the Forms of Power are not sapient.

As for why spren like Yxli and Ullim are able to retain their minds in the Physical Realm on their own, I really don't have a guess beyond "Odium made them that way."

most void spren that grant forms of power, like stormforms i believe are lesser spren like windspren etc equivalent version of voidspren

ulim and yixli are i believe the truespren like pattern,syl equivalent version of voidspren. They are not captured by singers to get forms at all.

i think they might bond with humans via a bond which would then grant humans voidbinding. These type of void-truespren are indeed more self aware than normal honorspren etc in the physical realm. and the reason for that i think is that odium is somehow providing them the necessary connection through spiritual realm so that they are not losing themselves in the PR.  

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@Calderis I think we agree fully on this :-) in a sense the bondmate is an anchor to the physical world, due to having a presence in all three realm while the spren normally are only or mainly in two, and so by attaching themselves to their Knight they can pull themselves into the one realm they aren't normally a part of.

 

@Kalaksbreath I think that that ties to the second paragraph, the extra mass they have been given - possible due to the Everstorm providing more of that investiture to them in the cognitive realm - allows them to cross over using that extra mass, so they don't have to sacrifice their cognitive presence to arrive in the physical realm.

 

@The traveller Agreed - I think the ecology of Braize is going to be very important in later stories and novels, as that is a world made entirely from spren, and not every spren need be of the same type as the others.

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17 minutes ago, The traveller said:

Braize is made entirely of spren? Is this confirmed in wobs 

It was mentioned in either the Rosharan essay or the Drominad system essay in Arcanum Unbounded. Basically for Drominad they have three inhabited planets, which only Roshar can match, and even then one planet only has splinters. I would need to find the exact quote, but if you have that book you can check those two essays.

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Ok yes yes got it

Quote

“Farthest out of the three is Braize, which despite being cold and inhospitable to men is home to an ecosystem of self-aware Splinters. (The local parlance would call them spren.) I believe it’s possible some of these are actually Cognitive Shadows, but research here is difficult and dangerous, so I will hold back on theorizing for the moment.”

Excerpt From
Arcanum Unbounded
Brandon Sanderson
This material may be protected by copyright.

 

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