What would happen between books if there were an Elantris 2 set a few years later?

[+Oltux72]

New Elantris will have to be different from Classical Elantris. And the world has changed during the Reod. The leadership of Elantris is operating under certain constraints.

• Shu-Dereth is an overt enemy now
• There are no experienced Elantrians (But presumably Seons of such people)
• Elantris has a known vulnerability now
• some people will remember the massacre of the Elantrians

So some questions:

• Is Eventeo still a viable king?
• What is to be done about the Duladen Republic? Support the rebels?
• Trade - that is a tough one. Whom do you trade with, if not the Derethi lands?
• The failure quota during the battle of Teoras was unacceptable. Does Elantris need a militia with regular training?
• How does Elantris organize itself? Raoden does not fit the mold of an absolute monarch.
• Does Arelon need a secret police? Raoden may not think so, but some of his people will remember how the Elantrians were killed.

[Paalm Tree]

There's the short story about Elantris and in it Sarene is pregnant, so if it is after that, they would have kids.

Raoden probably would have abolished slavery, because it would no longer be need.

On 10/9/2019 at 11:22 AM, Oltux72 said:

There are no experienced Elantrians 

But didn't the one Hoed last for 10 years, was there not any other Hoed that didn't get burned to death from the initial attacks and burnings?

[Pathfinder]

37 minutes ago, Paalm Tree said:

There's the short story about Elantris and in it Sarene is pregnant, so if it is after that, they would have kids.

Raoden probably would have abolished slavery, because it would no longer be need.

But didn't the one Hoed last for 10 years, was there not any other Hoed that didn't get burned to death from the initial attacks and burnings?

There is also the idea that the elantrians sent through the pool potentially did not die (WoB RAFO this). We do not know what happened to them. Theoretically once Raoden learns enough to access the cognitive realm, they could potentially return. There is also the IRE. 

[RShara]

3 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

There is also the idea that the elantrians sent through the pool potentially did not die (WoB RAFO this). We do not know what happened to them. Theoretically once Raoden learns enough to access the cognitive realm, they could potentially return. There is also the IRE. 

We know that the Elantrians sent through the pool don't necessarily die. We know what happened to at least one of them, for sure.

[Karger]

On 10/9/2019 at 2:22 PM, Oltux72 said:

There are no experienced Elantrians (But presumably Seons of such people)

In a few years they will have considerable training in at least practical aspects.

On 10/9/2019 at 2:22 PM, Oltux72 said:

There are no experienced Elantrians (But presumably Seons of such people)

Possible.  This will make training inefficient as there are no or limited teachers.

On 10/9/2019 at 2:22 PM, Oltux72 said:

Elantris has a known vulnerability now

Good luck exploiting it.

On 10/9/2019 at 2:22 PM, Oltux72 said:

some people will remember the massacre of the Elantrians

I kind of think the humility and the increased awareness might be a good thing.

On 10/9/2019 at 2:22 PM, Oltux72 said:

Is Eventeo still a viable king?

He is still alive and his brother seems to be dissatisfied with the idea of monarchs.  His surrender was under duress.   He also has an heir Teorn.  So he can "abdicate" in his favor if necessary.

On 10/9/2019 at 2:22 PM, Oltux72 said:

What is to be done about the Duladen Republic? Support the rebels?

I think that is an excellent idea.

On 10/9/2019 at 2:22 PM, Oltux72 said:

Trade - that is a tough one. Whom do you trade with, if not the Derethi lands?

Elantris exists now so trade is less necessary.

On 10/9/2019 at 2:22 PM, Oltux72 said:

The failure quota during the battle of Teoras was unacceptable. Does Elantris need a militia with regular training?

They will probably form one or at least develop some aonic weapons.  "Squeals!"

On 10/9/2019 at 2:22 PM, Oltux72 said:

How does Elantris organize itself? Raoden does not fit the mold of an absolute monarch.

Sareene can do a lot of the daily governance.

On 10/9/2019 at 2:22 PM, Oltux72 said:

Does Arelon need a secret police? Raoden may not think so, but some of his people will remember how the Elantrians were killed.

Good luck killing a well trained Elantrain.

[Wander89]

Raoden and Sarene's baby would be born and named Hrathen. 

[+Oltux72]

16 hours ago, Karger said:

In a few years they will have considerable training in at least practical aspects.

But not the theory behind it.

16 hours ago, Karger said:

Good luck exploiting it.

I am sue Wyrn is waiting for the next earth quake. And the next time he won't wait ten years. There will be those in Elantris who will ask the hard question: Are we safe on this world while the Fjordell Empire exists? Being stacked like fire wood on your own pyre is not an experience you want to repeat.

16 hours ago, Karger said:

I kind of think the humility and the increased awareness might be a good thing.

But can you trust the common people now?

16 hours ago, Karger said:

I think that is an excellent idea.

What about Jin Do?

16 hours ago, Karger said:

Elantris exists now so trade is less necessary.

Well, no. Or repeating myself: for whom?

In Arelon, sure. Teod? They are a trading nation. What good is Elantris if you cannot export Elantrian stuff again?

16 hours ago, Karger said:

They will probably form one or at least develop some aonic weapons.  "Squeals!"

Hence the obvious question, how can the Fjordell Empire hurt them? Obvious answer, a trade embargo and pirates paid to prey on their shipping.

16 hours ago, Karger said:

Sareene can do a lot of the daily governance.

A foreigner, non Elantrian? She can run Arelon. In fact she may be better at this than Raoden, but Elantris itself? During the Reod you got life boat politics. They obeyed out of fear. That fear is gone. They will want a council or something.

16 hours ago, Karger said:

Good luck killing a well trained Elantrain.

Poison, arrow to the head in an ambush, arson, ...

Then there is hostages. Raoden has a muggle wife and child. The majority will have immediate family. The enemy has a monastery specialized on assassination. This is a problem.

[Karger]

12 hours ago, Wander89 said:

Raoden and Sarene's baby would be born and named Hrathen. 

Throws up a little.

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

But not the theory behind it.

You don't need much theory to do most work.

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

I am sue Wyrn is waiting for the next earth quake. And the next time he won't wait ten years. There will be those in Elantris who will ask the hard question: Are we safe on this world while the Fjordell Empire exists? Being stacked like fire wood on your own pyre is not an experience you want to repeat.

How often do you think earthquakes of that magnitude happen?  Also they now know exactly how to fix things if it does.

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

But can you trust the common people now?

Why not?

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

What about Jin Do?

What about it?

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Well, no. Or repeating myself: for whom?

In Arelon, sure. Teod? They are a trading nation. What good is Elantris if you cannot export Elantrian stuff again?

Teod has the best armada on earth.

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Hence the obvious question, how can the Fjordell Empire hurt them? Obvious answer, a trade embargo and pirates paid to prey on their shipping.

No one defeats the Teod armada.

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

A foreigner, non Elantrian? She can run Arelon. In fact she may be better at this than Raoden, but Elantris itself? During the Reod you got life boat politics. They obeyed out of fear. That fear is gone. They will want a council or something.

Have you met Sarene?  People do what she tells them to.

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Poison, arrow to the head in an ambush, arson, ...

This works for a small group of Elantrains unprepared.  A group of well prepared Elantrains will have aonic force fields or something.

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Then there is hostages. Raoden has a muggle wife and child. The majority will have immediate family. The enemy has a monastery specialized on assassination. This is a problem.

Again.  Not as much as you seem to think.  Aonic force fields.

[+Oltux72]

7 hours ago, Karger said:

You don't need much theory to do most work.

Replication of old work. Talking about knowing AonDor as such is not very sensible. It contains subtasks that are losely to not at all connected. Theoretically you need not even be an Elantrian to design a complex aonic array.

7 hours ago, Karger said:

How often do you think earthquakes of that magnitude happen?  Also they now know exactly how to fix things if it does.

Rarely but probably not independently. It is possible that Arelon has ebtered a period of frequent quakes. Yes, it can be fixed, but you need a surveying service, reporting changes in and then you need to build. If any Dakhor monk had been near the new chasm line, Elantris would have been doomed.

7 hours ago, Karger said:

Why not?

What happens once can much likelier happen again.

7 hours ago, Karger said:

What about it?

One more revolution to be supported in Fjordell?

7 hours ago, Karger said:

Teod has the best armada on earth.

Which costs money and only defends on you. Trade is a niece way to get rich. But it also adds an angle of attack enemies can use.

7 hours ago, Karger said:

No one defeats the Teod armada.

Hence you need to find a way to harm your enemy that works without defeating that Armada. The historical analog you would be looking at in this case is Napoleon's continental blockade. That didn't work, but Teod has no Selish equivalent of a New World to trade with.

7 hours ago, Karger said:

Have you met Sarene?  People do what she tells them to.

For a time. But there is always an opposition.

7 hours ago, Karger said:

This works for a small group of Elantrains unprepared.  A group of well prepared Elantrains will have aonic force fields or something.

Again.  Not as much as you seem to think.  Aonic force fields.

Against stuff in your food? Or a venomous animal in your bed chamber? Or one of the ladies in the establishment you are just visiting? You go for the weaknesses of your enemies. Elantrians are not soldiers.

[Karger]

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Replication of old work. Talking about knowing AonDor as such is not very sensible. It contains subtasks that are losely to not at all connected. Theoretically you need not even be an Elantrian to design a complex aonic array.

Just training someone to do things without going into the theory should be good.

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Rarely but probably not independently. It is possible that Arelon has ebtered a period of frequent quakes. Yes, it can be fixed, but you need a surveying service, reporting changes in and then you need to build. If any Dakhor monk had been near the new chasm line, Elantris would have been doomed.

Only if a casm opened.  I would like to remind you that this only happened once in thousands of years.

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

What happens once can much likelier happen again.

Untrue.  What happens once has the same probability of happening again.

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

One more revolution to be supported in Fjordell?

We will see.

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Which costs money and only defends on you. Trade is a niece way to get rich. But it also adds an angle of attack enemies can use.

And you can use part of your armada to convoy your merchant fleet if necessary.

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Hence you need to find a way to harm your enemy that works without defeating that Armada. The historical analog you would be looking at in this case is Napoleon's continental blockade. That didn't work, but Teod has no Selish equivalent of a New World to trade with.

Teod can trade with Elantris.  Napolean's continental blockade worked by banning British ships from European ports.

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

For a time. But there is always an opposition.

And Sarene finds a way to crush said opposition.

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Against stuff in your food? Or a venomous animal in your bed chamber? Or one of the ladies in the establishment you are just visiting? You go for the weaknesses of your enemies. Elantrians are not soldiers.

Design aonic poison removers.  Make it so that none Elantrains can't enter your homes uninvited with an aonic lock.  Don't fraternize with strangers or causally hook up with them.

[+Oltux72]

On 13/10/2019 at 4:23 PM, Karger said:

Just training someone to do things without going into the theory should be good.

Unless you meet a new problem.

On 13/10/2019 at 4:23 PM, Karger said:

Only if a casm opened.  I would like to remind you that this only happened once in thousands of years.

Untrue.  What happens once has the same probability of happening again.

If events are independent. Which they are usually not. Take crime. It is concentrated. The best predictor of future crime is past convictions.

On 13/10/2019 at 4:23 PM, Karger said:

And you can use part of your armada to convoy your merchant fleet if necessary.

That helps you against pirates and other threats at sea. That is good, but insufficient. On Opelon/Sycla, there are only two actors left basically. Teoden and Arelon can trade between each other, if the Derethi lands do not wish to trade. Does Teod produce a lot that Arelon will buy? Ships presumably. The basic consideration that drove the alliance between Teod and Arelon still exists.

On 13/10/2019 at 4:23 PM, Karger said:

Teod can trade with Elantris.  Napolean's continental blockade worked by banning British ships from European ports.

And Sarene finds a way to crush said opposition.

Very soon people will point out that Elantris was saved by serendipity and Sarene's policies would have doomed the people.

On 13/10/2019 at 4:23 PM, Karger said:

Design aonic poison removers.  Make it so that none Elantrains can't enter your homes uninvited with an aonic lock.  Don't fraternize with strangers or causally hook up with them.

Try selling that to teenagers and people who very living dead for months.

[Karger]

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Unless you meet a new problem.

Overcoming those can be kind of like on the job training.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

If events are independent. Which they are usually not. Take crime. It is concentrated. The best predictor of future crime is past convictions.

To the best of our knowledge the camse opened at "random" also crime being predictive is largely a function of criminal policies and poverty not always that certain people are naturally predisposed to crime. 

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Very soon people will point out that Elantris was saved by serendipity and Sarene's policies would have doomed the people.

Someone is making predictions that cannot be verified.  Good luck with that.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Try selling that to teenagers and people who very living dead for months.

That kind of behavior will where off.