steel sight

[Dancer]

My question here is can you see the blue lines that are behind you when you burn steel/iron. We know that you don't need to have working eyes to see the blue lines after all the blue lines still appear when your eyes are closed or even when you lose your eyes (Inquisitors). We know that with training you can see anything that have small trace elements of metal in them. We also know of one other metal that allows you to perceive things that are behind you Atium. The both work on similar principles by giving you a glimpse into the SR were all locations and time are one. So with all that do you think that it is possible (with enough training of coarse). If it turns out that this is possible then it means that steel/iron Mistings and Mistborn can have a 360 degree view of their surroundings at all times when burning. This might put a lot of strain on their minds  though having to process all that visual information.    

[RShara]

Yes, they can see the lines behind them. Vin and Wax both push on things behind them that they didn't "look" at prior to Pushing.

[Dancer]

In all of those I just assumed they saw those things as they were moving past remembered they were there then just pushed or pulled but I might just be miss remembering. 

[Karger]

Just now, Dancer said:

In all of those I just assumed they saw those things as they were moving past remembered they were there then just pushed or pulled but I might just be miss remembering. 

No.  They can see 360.

[RShara]

1 minute ago, Dancer said:

In all of those I just assumed they saw those things as they were moving past remembered they were there then just pushed or pulled but I might just be miss remembering. 

Nope, they actually "see" the lines.

[Dancer]

That is interesting! If they combine that with the seeing the world in trace metals no one would be able to sneak up on them or hide from them if they are near by unless the are wearing aluminium armor. 

[RShara]

5 minutes ago, Dancer said:

That is interesting! If they combine that with the seeing the world in trace metals no one would be able to sneak up on them or hide from them if they are near by unless the are wearing aluminium armor. 

Yep. That's how Kelsier "saw" Vin listening through the door a couple times.

[Dancer]

I feel like we should have seen the whole 360 degree trace element vision when we had the few inquisitor POV's in the final empire or any of Marshes POV's. It would have increased the threat of the Inquisitors. 

[Karger]

32 minutes ago, Dancer said:

I feel like we should have seen the whole 360 degree trace element vision when we had the few inquisitor POV's in the final empire or any of Marshes POV's. It would have increased the threat of the Inquisitors. 

We do get a bit of that in the inquisitor POV.  I also doubt that they needed help being intimidating. 

[TrailRunnin]

Yep, they can see them, although the best explanation I've heard is that steelsight doesn't work exactly with your field of vision, but is more like an extra sense. It's just described in the best way for a reader without that sense to understand it. Also, I don't remember any regular allomancers being able to see trace metals on their own, I believe it had to be an actual metal object.

[Kalaksbreath]

 

 

 

1

30 minutes ago, TrailRunnin said:

Also, I don't remember any regular allomancers being able to see trace metals on their own, I believe it had to be an actual metal object.

you need to be a savant or compounder to see trace metals (I believe) or just be superpowerful (lerasium mistborn).

[Dancer]

pg 620 The final empire

"He turned and smiled toward the group of Ministry priests, knowing full well the discomfort the gaze of an Inquisitor could cause. He couldn't see anymore, not as he once had, but he had been given something better. A command of Allomancy so subtle, so detailed, that he could make out the world around him with startling accuracy. Almost everything had metal in it - water, stone, glass... even human bodies.These metals were too diffuse to be affected by Allomancy - indeed, most Allomancers couldn't even sense them."

Edited October 8, 2019 by Dancer

[Halyo_Alex]

2 hours ago, Dancer said:

pg 620 The final empire

"He turned and smiled toward the group of Ministry priests, knowing full well the discomfort the gaze of an Inquisitor could cause. He couldn't see anymore, not as he once had, but he had been given something better. A command of Allomancy so subtle, so detailed, that he could make out the world around him with startling accuracy. Almost everything had metal in it - water, stone, glass... even human bodies.These metals were too diffuse to be affected by Allomancy - indeed, most Allomancers couldn't even sense them."

Also something interesting to note is the way that's worded, it sounds like even with the fine detail of that metalsight (iron can do it too, not just steel), he couldn't Push or Pull on any of the finer particles of metal. He could "see" it, though.

[Calderis]

21 hours ago, TrailRunnin said:

Yep, they can see them, although the best explanation I've heard is that steelsight doesn't work exactly with your field of vision, but is more like an extra sense. It's just described in the best way for a reader without that sense to understand it. Also, I don't remember any regular allomancers being able to see trace metals on their own, I believe it had to be an actual metal object.

Yeah, I think it's more along the lines that that's how the mind interprets it. 

Even a blind person could use metal sight, and I think it might manifest differently for someone who never had vision. 

[+robardin]

This aspect of steelsight or ironsight was hard for me to accept at first as well. After all, why describe them as specifically "blue" lines of varying intensity radiating out from one's center of gravity to the (center of gravity of) metal objects, if they aren't a kind of visual perception? And Inquisitors are described as turning their heads to look at people (Vin, Kelsier, etc.), which if they could see equally well without doing so, why would they?

More problematic is the "instinctive burning" of Allomantic metals after one has Snapped. Vin didn't know what she was doing, but was able to burn "trace metals" she got in Camon's lair, such as pewter from the plates or mugs they used. Her only consciously used ability, her Soothing or "Luck", required brass, which seems odd to have as a "trace metal" (especially to an Allomantically correct alloy percentage), unless she was being fed it in small amounts by Camon who suspected what she was.

But something like steel or iron should be VERY common as a trace metal available from everyday objects, far more so than pewter. If she could instinctively burn pewter and brass, why not steel or iron?

[+Invocation]

35 minutes ago, robardin said:

And Inquisitors are described as turning their heads to look at people (Vin, Kelsier, etc.), which if they could see equally well without doing so, why would they?

Human instinct. 

35 minutes ago, robardin said:

More problematic is the "instinctive burning" of Allomantic metals after one has Snapped. Vin didn't know what she was doing, but was able to burn "trace metals" she got in Camon's lair, such as pewter from the plates or mugs they used. Her only consciously used ability, her Soothing or "Luck", required brass, which seems odd to have as a "trace metal" (especially to an Allomantically correct alloy percentage), unless she was being fed it in small amounts by Camon who suspected what she was.

Remember that Luthadel was in an area with a lot of metal in the ground, leaking into the water supply. That's part of it. Another part is the potential for brass coating on plates and utensils, much the same way that she was getting pewter from that one set of Camon's. As to the correct alloy, that is unlikely, but you get small amounts of power from close-but-incorrect alloys anyway, which could partially be why she had so little.

38 minutes ago, robardin said:

But something like steel or iron should be VERY common as a trace metal available from everyday objects, far more so than pewter. If she could instinctively burn pewter and brass, why not steel or iron?

Steel and iron at the time were reserved for people not living beneath a street drain, as Camon's crew was. I would find it doubtful if they had anything that was steel down there, and iron is iffy, too, where a brass cookpot or tin/pewter utensils is much more likely.

[+robardin]

1 hour ago, Invocation said:

Steel and iron at the time were reserved for people not living beneath a street drain, as Camon's crew was. I would find it doubtful if they had anything that was steel down there, and iron is iffy, too, where a brass cookpot or tin/pewter utensils is much more likely.

Maybe that is something specific to the Final Empire, then. Even in Europe's Middle Ages, iron and steel (though not weapons-grade steel, as for swords or armor) would have been the most common metal for things like hairpins, board nails, or everyday knives used for cooking and eating (spoons were probably wooden). Cookpots for lower class folks like skaa would be would probably just be earthenware, brass vessels would be expensive. Even pewterware would be somewhat upscale.

But of course, The Final Empire is not Earth. Maybe pewterware was cheap and common. Still, I'd have thought "trace amounts" of iron would be far more likely than trace amounts of Allomantic brass - best explained by Camon intentionally supplying her with minimal amounts, enough to keep her unaware of her ability, but enough to make use of it (as he was evidently doing).

[Dancer]

A thought just occurred to me. Can you differentiate different metals using the "steel sight"? I would think that you would have to otherwise how did the Inquisitors prepare their metal vials. If you can tell different metals using this technique then it would be really handy. Brandon has said that "steel sight" when used like how the Inquisitors do it can give you like an X-ray vision. They can see the blood flowing in someones body as well as see through walls if they consecrated. This could be very useful for era 3 and 4. You could use this technique to determine the metallic make up of any object. 

 

[+robardin]

4 hours ago, Dancer said:

A thought just occurred to me. Can you differentiate different metals using the "steel sight"? I would think that you would have to otherwise how did the Inquisitors prepare their metal vials. If you can tell different metals using this technique then it would be really handy. Brandon has said that "steel sight" when used like how the Inquisitors do it can give you like an X-ray vision. They can see the blood flowing in someones body as well as see through walls if they consecrated. This could be very useful for era 3 and 4. You could use this technique to determine the metallic make up of any object. 

That point about the Inquisitors making metal vials with Steelsight is pretty interesting, but yes, we have not just WoB but an in-work, in-world description of Steelsight being used to identify metals - well, Ironsight, as it was about Ranette the gunsmith when Wax and Wayne go to see her for the first time in Alloy of Law, offering her an aluminum revolver taken from the Vanishers to examine: "Ranette stepped forward. She was a Lurcher, and could recognize most metals by simply burning iron."

[Dancer]

6 hours ago, robardin said:

That point about the Inquisitors making metal vials with Steelsight is pretty interesting, but yes, we have not just WoB but an in-work, in-world description of Steelsight being used to identify metals - well, Ironsight, as it was about Ranette the gunsmith when Wax and Wayne go to see her for the first time in Alloy of Law, offering her an aluminum revolver taken from the Vanishers to examine: "Ranette stepped forward. She was a Lurcher, and could recognize most metals by simply burning iron."

nice. That point always bothered me. Thank you for clearing that up. 

[StanLemon]

What's interesting is that Marsh could apparently see things from a decent distance as he saw the ash mount envelop a town

[Kingsdaughter613]

On 12/20/2019 at 4:16 AM, Dancer said:

A thought just occurred to me. Can you differentiate different metals using the "steel sight"? I would think that you would have to otherwise how did the Inquisitors prepare their metal vials. If you can tell different metals using this technique then it would be really handy. Brandon has said that "steel sight" when used like how the Inquisitors do it can give you like an X-ray vision. They can see the blood flowing in someones body as well as see through walls if they consecrated. This could be very useful for era 3 and 4. You could use this technique to determine the metallic make up of any object. 

 

Marsh was able to ‘see’ a picture by the trace metals in the paint. And could tell that the paint was of different colors. And the direction of the brush strokes. Please note that most pigments, especially medieval ones, did not necessarily contain metal specifically, though several utilized lead in some form. That’s pretty impressive.

http://www.webexhibits.org/pigments/intro/medieval.html

[Honorless]

Poor man's Byakugan