OK, shards weapons can't be bows and arrows, buuut...

[TheWadehart Babsk]

OK like the title says, shards weapons can't split become bows and arrows, buuut...

What if Willshapers could could have a ShardCrossbow and using cohesion he makes SUPER dense bolts out of rock or even iron if he has it.  One shot. There goes your misappropriated shardplate/carapace you mean ol' voidbinder!  

[Gilphon Svrakiss]

I mean, I feel like this would be theoretically possible, but I'm not sure it would do the job much better than a mundane crossbow. 

[not an Evil Librarian Elantrian]

When it comes to archery, I think that a shard arrow would be much more effective. The only problem is that I can't think of a way for the fletchings to form out of metal.

[RShara Unmade]

3 hours ago, TheWadehart said:

OK like the title says, shards weapons can't split become bows and arrows, buuut...

What if Willshapers could could have a ShardCrossbow and using cohesion he makes SUPER dense bolts out of rock or even iron if he has it.  One shot. There goes your misappropriated shardplate/carapace you mean ol' voidbinder!  

The density of the bolts shouldn't really affect the effectiveness of the weapon, though? It's sharpness and size that really makes a difference.

[not an Evil Librarian Elantrian]

2 hours ago, RShara said:

The density of the bolts shouldn't really affect the effectiveness of the weapon, though? It's sharpness and size that really makes a difference.

The density will make the bolt heavier, thus giving it better penetration power. Of course, this will also limit the range, but with a shard crossbow, I can see it being effective. 

[Bigmikey357 Full Shardbearer]

A Shard crossbow would likely destroy a normal arrow, kinda like Detritus from the Discworld novels. Having ammunition on hand that can still fly straight while being subjected to forces near that of an explosive charge would be like having a personal ballista.

Of course for a weapon that would be even more effective would be a Shard slingshot in the hands of an Elsecaller/Lightweaver. Never runs out of ammo, a small bb wouldn't be tough to soulcast and it's relatively small size will catch many people on Roshar, used to massive Shardblades and crazy armor, completely off guard.

[TheWadehart Babsk]

3 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

A Shard crossbow would likely destroy a normal arrow, kinda like Detritus from the Discworld novels. Having ammunition on hand that can still fly straight while being subjected to forces near that of an explosive charge would be like having a personal ballista.

That's why bolts were invented.  To withstand the heavy recoil of the string. A shardxbow would need really sturdy ammunition. 

[Oltux72 Gerontarch]

12 hours ago, not an Evil Librarian said:

When it comes to archery, I think that a shard arrow would be much more effective. The only problem is that I can't think of a way for the fletchings to form out of metal.

Use a solid fin like on an aircraft. Although I wonder whether with a  spren which can change its shape you should not just go with a homing missile. Would you rather use a shard arrow or a shard javelin propelled with some kind of woomera?

[galendo Artifabrian]

22 hours ago, not an Evil Librarian said:

When it comes to archery, I think that a shard arrow would be much more effective. The only problem is that I can't think of a way for the fletchings to form out of metal.

I'll bite.  Why do you think that the fletchings couldn't be made out of metal?  I'll admit that Shardmetal as we've seen it doesn't seem very flexible, but I would expect that sufficiently thin strands would be somewhat hair-like.

Heck, from what we've seen about spren's ability to change their shape, I suspect the spren could grow, retract, or curve fletchings as needed, granting a minimal sort of guidance/course correction for the "arrow".

[supersmith Forescout]

Why not make a shard arrow and shoot it with a regular bow? Shard cuts at range and then you can just summon It back and shoot again. Unlimited insta kills 

[Oltux72 Gerontarch]

1 hour ago, supersmith said:

Why not make a shard arrow and shoot it with a regular bow? Shard cuts at range and then you can just summon It back and shoot again. Unlimited insta kills 

Mass issues. The arrow would be too light. You'd waste the increased strength stormlight gives you. An arrow has a fairly large surface area compared to a bullet. If you make it very fast, as you would, if you went to maximum draw weight, you will fire an extremely fast arrow. Friction goes up with the square of velocity. You'd end up with a missile that is extremely lethal at short range, which is useless because it pretty much cuts through everything anyway, but rather short range. Hence a javelin may be a better use of a live spren blade.

[Vindo Lighteyes]

Makes me think of what weapon forms spren would take in a modern world, would their be shard guns? 

[Invocation Tarachin Superstar]

2 hours ago, Vindo said:

Makes me think of what weapon forms spren would take in a modern world, would their be shard guns? 

They could maybe form a gun, but I don't think the bullet is an option because I don't think the spren would like to explode. Plus, bullets that are too light do funky things. It would be more direct, with less drop, but also less range. Honestly by that point the spren weapons are pretty redundant. Plate would be fairly redundant too, since a bullet could shatter bits of it much quicker than most current Rosharan weapons could.

Quote

Questioner

How many shots would it take for Wax using his gun to break a section of Shardplate?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on the gun... Okay, so Vindication. He could probably... depends on the bullet, cause he's got several styles. But let's just say two or three. There's an argument he could do it with one, with the right shot, the right bullet, in the right moment.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

Modern use for Plate would probably be electrical work, since Plate keeps you safe from electrical discharges per this WOB. But that's off topic.

[Guest Edonidd]

9 minutes ago, Invocation said:

They could maybe form a gun, but I don't think the bullet is an option because I don't think the spren would like to explode. Plus, bullets that are too light do funky things. It would be more direct, with less drop, but also less range. Honestly by that point the spren weapons are pretty redundant. Plate would be fairly redundant too, since a bullet could shatter bits of it much quicker than most current Rosharan weapons could.

Modern use for Plate would probably be electrical work, since Plate keeps you safe from electrical discharges per this WOB. But that's off topic.

I believe Brandon has stated in the past that a shardbow might be possible (which is why a hammer that you can only use in plate can be called a shardhammer, but a bow you can only use in plate is called a greatbow.)  But I believe he ended up changing his mind mid answer and gave it a RAFO.  During I believe that same answer I believe or possibly a different WoB he states that complicated mechanisms in a shard blade would be difficult and present different issues.   I got the feeling a shard gun probably isnt happening.

[Gilphon Svrakiss]

The other issue here is that I feel it would take a lot of work to get the Spren to take on a form that complex and precisely engineered. Which isn't to say that it's impossible, but what we've seen so far is them defaulting to pretty simple shapes, and then adjusting on the fly based on what their radiant says they want. So you'd probably need a radiant with a lot of gunsmithing knowledge, and then probably a lot of trial and error in order to get a gun made 100% out of Shardmetal to work properly. 

[Invocation Tarachin Superstar]

1 minute ago, Edonidd said:

I believe Brandon has stated in the past that a shardbow might be possible (which is why a hammer that you can only use in plate can be called a shardhammer, but a bow you can only use in plate is called a greatbow.)  But I believe he ended up changing his mind mid answer and gave it a RAFO.  During I believe that same answer I believe or possibly a different WoB he states that complicated mechanisms in a shard blade would be difficult and present different issues.   I got the feeling a shard gun probably isnt happening.

I would honestly have to agree. It would take enough finageling to where it's probably not ever gonna happen.

Hmmm, I wonder though. If someone bonded multiple spren like is theoretically possible, would that help or hurt the chances? Purely hypothetically, I don't think we'll see a multi-bond for a very long time, if ever.

[galendo Artifabrian]

A gun probably wouldn't work.  Too many small moving parts.  On the other hand, a Shard cannon seems quite possible and effective.  One of the issues with cannons historically was getting them strong enough to not blow up in their users' faces.  This wouldn't be a problem with a Shardcannon.  Another issue with cannons was portability -- they were quite heavy and difficult to transport.  That also wouldn't be a problem with a spren.  (The ammo itself is another issue, unless you get a second spren to form the cannonball.)

[Aon Tia Enefel]

I thought you can be a squire to more than one order but not a sworn radiant?

[TheWadehart Babsk]

Something that might be getting overlooked by people.   I had an impression both from Lift's Shardfork  LOL.  And when Shallan was trying to carve the cubby, that there seems to be a minimum size that the spren can become.

[Oltux72 Gerontarch]

8 hours ago, Invocation said:

They could maybe form a gun, but I don't think the bullet is an option because I don't think the spren would like to explode. Plus, bullets that are too light do funky things. It would be more direct, with less drop, but also less range. Honestly by that point the spren weapons are pretty redundant.

They woud still make a triific dart.

8 hours ago, Invocation said:

Plate would be fairly redundant too, since a bullet could shatter bits of it much quicker than most current Rosharan weapons could.

Modern use for Plate would probably be electrical work, since Plate keeps you safe from electrical discharges per this WOB. But that's off topic.

Plate still makes you strong and heavy. You could bear a 20mm hand cannon and wear a lot of ballistic armor over the plate.