TheWadehart Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 Amazing what you notice when you reread something. This scene takes place during one of Dalinar's flashbacks. Oathbringer p396. Spoiler "It’s like they’re sparring,” Dalinar said. “I can almost see the little blades in their hands.”... Dalinar narrowed his eyes at the flamespren. That one did have a sword. A miniature shardblade. At this point it Gavinar has started talking about the codes. So I think Stormfather has started sending him the visions. But Dalinar is still very much attracted to combat. So my question is this: Has Dalinar attracted a Dustbringer's ash spren? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, TheWadehart said: So my question is this: Has Dalinar attracted a Dustbringer's ash spren? I don't think so. I think what Dalinar was seeing was the same thing as the two ardents in that interlude about flamespren, where they're measuring the size of them and it keeps changing to what they expect. Dalinar perceives those spren a certain way, and the power of that perception is apparently enough for them to conform. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWadehart Posted October 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, Invocation said: I don't think so. I think what Dalinar was seeing was the same thing as the two ardents in that interlude about flamespren, where they're measuring the size of them and it keeps changing to what they expect. Dalinar perceives those spren a certain way, and the power of that perception is apparently enough for them to conform. Perception is certainly important and is a subjective experience. I had the impression, however, that what the ardents did were more objective. A scientific measurement of spren characteristics. Which doesn't change them, but rather locks them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 minute ago, TheWadehart said: Perception is certainly important and is a subjective experience. I had the impression, however, that what the ardents did were more objective. A scientific measurement of spren characteristics. Which doesn't change them, but rather locks them. The way they were measuring it was in a unit that isn't a constant, but rather Rosharan-unique. Thus, it is not all objectivity, and instead, partially subjective via being limited by the tools they had. This doesn't change that the perception had an effect, nor is it in any way, shape, or form implied that their method was the only method to lock a spren's characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 Ashspren don't look like flames. They look like constantly disintegrating and reviving ash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Invocation said: The way they were measuring it was in a unit that isn't a constant, but rather Rosharan-unique. Thus, it is not all objectivity, and instead, partially subjective via being limited by the tools they had. This doesn't change that the perception had an effect, nor is it in any way, shape, or form implied that their method was the only method to lock a spren's characteristics. interesting idea... does it mean that if we could measure them with modern instruments after the ardent has measured it, we would see it changing slightly, within the error limits of the ardent measure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilphon Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) Theoretically, but attempting to measure that would then lock it down beyond the ability of modern instruments to measure it. Which, to be clear, still wouldn't be a totally objective measure; all instruments have their limitations. Edited October 2, 2019 by Gilphon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted October 3, 2019 Report Share Posted October 3, 2019 34 minutes ago, king of nowhere said: interesting idea... does it mean that if we could measure them with modern instruments after the ardent has measured it, we would see it changing slightly, within the error limits of the ardent measure? Potentially, but just as Gilphon said, it would just serve to lock it down further and remain yet inconclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGirlWhoLookedUp Posted October 3, 2019 Report Share Posted October 3, 2019 Is it just me, or was anyone else reminded of the Rift. Flames and swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted October 3, 2019 Report Share Posted October 3, 2019 13 minutes ago, TheGirlWhoLookedUp said: Is it just me, or was anyone else reminded of the Rift. Flames and swords. I actually think that's part of it. Connection works fourth-dimensionally, and spren seem to be able to work off of a similar principal, given Syl's "I knew that one day you would call for me" thing about why she crossed to the Physical Realm. If the giant spren of Moelach can access the future, why couldn't a bunch of flamespren do the same based on someone with a massive Spiritual presence? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LopentheHerdazian Posted October 3, 2019 Report Share Posted October 3, 2019 Who has the massive spiritual presence Dalinar? Gavilar? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted October 4, 2019 Report Share Posted October 4, 2019 On 3/10/2019 at 1:40 AM, Gilphon said: Theoretically, but attempting to measure that would then lock it down beyond the ability of modern instruments to measure it. No. it would lock them only if you write down the measure. on the other hand, a modern instrument giving the value on a display and saving it in memory authomatically could be said to be writing it down. unless the instrument was programmed specifically to avoid it, maybe. does it mean that an analogic measure doesn't lock a spren and a digital one does? men, we need many more experiments now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted October 4, 2019 Report Share Posted October 4, 2019 16 hours ago, LopentheHerdazian said: Who has the massive spiritual presence Dalinar? Gavilar? Technically both (and also technically for the same reason), but in this case, I was referring to Dalinar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts