Kalaksbreath

Why can Shallan use patter after only the first ideal

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I have noticed that Shallan was able to use pattern as a blade after only having sworn the 1st ideal. This is odd to me all the other orders need to have sworn the 3rd ideal to use the spren as a blade but Shallan was able to use patter to kill her mother and I was wondering if anyone knew why?

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Shallan wasn't at First Oath levels during that whole escapade. She was somewhat far along her path there.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He said that at one point Shallan may have said all the oaths for her order (or may have been capable of saying all of the oaths by the end of the book) but has since regressed due to "memory loss/repression."

Words of Radiance Lexington signing (March 18, 2014)

 

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But that still doesn't explain how she used it to kill Tyn with only the second ideal. @Invocation 

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Most obvious answer is Shallan is the one repressing her progression. She is in the order steeped in lies and truths after all. Though it's worth noting that Kaladin fast forwarded back to where he was once he got past his regression, so the perceptions of the radiant may be the most relevant factor (kind of like how Kaladin still has the slave brands).

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1 hour ago, Kalaksbreath said:

But that still doesn't explain how she used it to kill Tyn with only the second ideal. @Invocation 

She used to be higher, but she regressed. That had some strange ramifications, thus the early Blade.

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Just now, Invocation said:

She used to be higher, but she regressed. That had some strange ramifications, thus the early Blade.

fair enough. but I have also heard that Shallan had some involvement with Sja-anat at a young age is it possible that her influence allowed Shallan to use pattern too soon 

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12 minutes ago, Kalaksbreath said:

fair enough. but I have also heard that Shallan had some involvement with Sja-anat at a young age is it possible that her influence allowed Shallan to use pattern too soon 

I don't believe there's evidence of that, currently. Her family was influenced by one of the Unmade during the last 5-10 years, but we have no idea which one.

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14 minutes ago, Kalaksbreath said:

fair enough. but I have also heard that Shallan had some involvement with Sja-anat at a young age is it possible that her influence allowed Shallan to use pattern too soon 

Yeah pretty much what RShara said. Unclear if it was Sja-anat or not, but it was an Unmade of some kind.

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so is it possible that is why she could use pattern or is it just that she had advanced then regressed?

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Shallan definitely has patter B)

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The slang and the use of slang by a certain person or group of persons. Can be used in a posutive or negative manner depending on the assessement of its quality in wit, humour, and mannerism. Scottish in origin.

 

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7 minutes ago, Kalaksbreath said:

so is it possible that is why she could use pattern or is it just that she had advanced then regressed?

Just the advancement thing, I think. It's unlikely that any of the Unmade except maybe Dai-gonarthis (because there's no data based on that one's powers) could have altered the bond to that degree. 

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8 minutes ago, Kalaksbreath said:

so is it possible that is why she could use pattern or is it just that she had advanced then regressed?

I'm with @Invocation I think it's just because she advanced and regressed. But keep in mind that by the time she actually summoned Pattern as a Shardblade, she was already on her second Truth/third Ideal, so there's not really a contradiction either way.

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@RShara what? I thought killing her father was her first truth and she used pattern to kill Tyn shortly after telling pattern that she killed her father her second truth was that she killed her mother.

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I thought she was on her third oath by the time of WoR. The first oath is the same for all. Her second oath was that she was afraid. Third being she killed her father. Fourth being she killed her mother.

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2 minutes ago, Kalaksbreath said:

@RShara what? I thought killing her father was her first truth and she used pattern to kill Tyn shortly after telling pattern that she killed her father her second truth was that she killed her mother.

Lightweavers say the first Ideal, then they just have Truths. She spoke 2 Truths in WoK, so add those to the First Ideal and she was at the 3rd level.

Journey Before Destination/I am Terrified/I Killed My Father = 3rd level.

Her Fourth Truth was "I Killed My Mother," spoken at the end of WoR.

Edited by RShara
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Just now, Kalaksbreath said:

@RShara When was I am Terrified 

When she first soulcast the goblet into blood.

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@RShara I thought her 2nd truth was that she killed her mother and her 1st truth was that she killed her father 

Edited by Kalaksbreath
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2 minutes ago, Kalaksbreath said:

@RShara I thought her 2nd truth was that she killed her mother and her 1st truth was that she killed her father 

Quote

tganchero (paraphrased)

How many oaths can a Radiant swear?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There is an upper-limit/threshold to the number of oaths a Radiant may make. By the end of WoR, Shallan was a step higher than Kaladin.

Words of Radiance Lexington signing (March 18, 2014)

 

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8 minutes ago, RShara said:

 

Then why doesn’t she have plate yet because the skybreakers tell szeth that after the 4th ideal you get plate 

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Just now, Kalaksbreath said:

Then why doesn’t she have plate yet because the skybreakers tell szeth that after the 4th ideal you get plate 

Because she's still majorly suppressing her abilities and memories from when she was a kid. Plus, it doesn't seem you automagically get Plate the instant you swear the 4th Ideal. You have to know how to make it work. Which she doesn't.

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Ok fair enough I need to re-read WoK for the 5th time

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As I recall, not all Orders need to be at oath three to summon their Blade.

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14 hours ago, Kalaksbreath said:

Then why doesn’t she have plate yet because the skybreakers tell szeth that after the 4th ideal you get plate

Do we know that Lightweavers are supposed to get armor at rank 4?

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33 minutes ago, Argel said:

Do we know that Lightweavers are supposed to get armor at rank 4?

It is widely believed and strongly supported, but not confirmed, that all radiant orders get their plate at the 4th ideal.  

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