dream team vs lord ruler

[Stefano]

end of book 4, some weird force finds a way to travel to the past to kill preservation and take lord ruler's body, then free ruin once the well is ready. harmony, before the misterious force goes to the past, sacrifices himself to send wax, wayne and marasi to the final empire era.

the mission is to make lord ruler die.

they arrive just after the skaa army has been slain.

vax team can meet kelsier's krew, and has some time to prepare the attack. he has vindication, some vials containing metals known at the end of allow of law, and of course the historic knowledge he has at the end of the book, spook's book included.

vax, wayne, marasi, kelsier, vin, ham, breeze, spook and sazed  have to attack Kredik Shaw and kill lord ruler.

preservation have been slain by the misterious force, mist is ineffective.

could they make it? how?

 

[+robardin]

If Ruin had been freed from the Well and Preservation were truly killed (splintered) with no way for Vin to take up the Shard, nor a ghost Kelsier to hold it temporarily... Then it'd have been Game Over for Scadrial, my friend.

They could still keep Ruin from getting the atium stash in the Trustwarren, the vast bulk of what had condensed at the Pits over at least a thousand years, but Ruin would simply destroy everything as he basically had succeeded in doing with the ashmounts, tsunamis, and earthquakes, then do whatever slow process he could do with Inquisitor pawns to sift through the remains looking for it.

It'd annoy and frustrate Ruin, but not defeat him.

[Stefano]

6 hours ago, robardin said:

If Ruin had been freed from the Well and Preservation were truly killed (splintered) with no way for Vin to take up the Shard, nor a ghost Kelsier to hold it temporarily... Then it'd have been Game Over for Scadrial, my friend.

They could still keep Ruin from getting the atium stash in the Trustwarren, the vast bulk of what had condensed at the Pits over at least a thousand years, but Ruin would simply destroy everything as he basically had succeeded in doing with the ashmounts, tsunamis, and earthquakes, then do whatever slow process he could do with Inquisitor pawns to sift through the remains looking for it.

It'd annoy and frustrate Ruin, but not defeat him.

ruin is still trapped, the focus was to create a fully prepared w&w+kelsier's crew vs lord ruler gang without mist intervention

[+robardin]

5 hours ago, Stefano said:

ruin is still trapped, the focus was to create a fully prepared w&w+kelsier's crew vs lord ruler gang without mist intervention

Hmm but Preservation is completely dead before the Well is useable? Not sure how that happens as Ruin is what killed him in Hero of Ages.

But you're also saying some agent of Autonomy has gone back in time to subvert TLR into planning to free Ruin by releasing the power at the Well?

Does this Subverted Rashek know he's being pursued Terminator-style by Era 2 agents, and similarly educated about what happened in the original timeline? Because nothing would defeat a Prepared and Forewarned Lord Ruler from personally defending Kredik Shaw and its hidden portal to the Well. Vin certainly wouldn't have, he was only defeated because he didn't expect Vin to be able to draw on the mists.

[Dancer]

I'm with @robardin here. If TLR know's that there is an attack coming especially if it involves the well of ascension then he would personally wipe the floor with everyone he believes is against him. He could do it by himself he is that powerful. That's not to mention if he takes this super seriously and calls for his Inquisitors and seer Obligaters to help. This will be a one sided stomp, no contest. 

[Stefano]

mmmhhh, let's put it this way:

- ruin and preservation are out, no intervention possible for both of them, no mist involved

- lord rules isn't aware of the peril, the misterious force hasn't gotten his body yet

The crew has some time to plan the attack, so it will likely be crew+2nd era heroes vs lord ruler and inquisitors in Kredik Shaw. 

I don't think lord ruler would easly wipe the floor with them: silver bullets, unknown materials, they know about lord ruler's metalminds, 3 expert strategists, 2 mistborn with chromium...

my bet is on the crew

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Stefano

[+robardin]

1 hour ago, Stefano said:

mmmhhh, let's put it this way:

- ruin and preservation are out, no intervention possible for both of them, no mist involved

- lord rules isn't aware of the peril, the misterious force hasn't gotten his body yet

The crew has some time to plan the attack, so it will likely be crew+2nd era heroes vs lord ruler and inquisitors in Kredik Shaw. 

You have to define what the Dream Team's goal is in going back Terminator-style, in pursuit of a saboteur from a shared future they come from.

It isn't going to be "we must kill The Lord Ruler and then renew the Well's power", as that would just leave Scadrial in the World of Ash but without a Lord Ruler, and only serve to buy another 1,024 years before Ruin plays his next gambit to manipulate towards his eventual release. The goal would need to be to ensure Harmony's Ascension, by killing the saboteur. They should avoid confronting TLR entirely, or interacting with Kell and his crew.

But I get it: you're not doing this as a real what-if exercise (if that phrase even makes any sense), but as a framework for considering an assassination attempt on an unwitting Lord Ruler before he killed Kelsier, if Wax, Wayne, and Marasi were able to cross over from another parallel dimension to aid Kell and his crew (including a trained Vin) towards that goal, armed with info, future technology, weapons, and metals. And without using Vin's mist-fueled power level. And ignoring whatever else would happen next to this Scadrial-Beta timeline, they're here on safari!

So let's focus on that.

The only way to remove Rashek's bracers was for Vin to draw in the mists, and you've ruled that out as something anybody would be able to do, then TLR has nigh-infinite metalminds in every FE era Feruchemical attribute, plus enough Allomantic strength to Push or Pull on the metals in people's stomachs. The Dream Team won't be able to kill him in a head-to-head confrontation, like a pit fight.

My TLDR take would be: The Dream Team still won't be able to kill him in an open, head-to-head confrontation. But Kelsier, Wax, and Wayne could likely plan a clever trap, along the lines of the ideas in the several threads discussing "How To Kill The Lord Ruler", using foreknowledge, the element of surprise, and taking advantage of his initial overconfidence.

Aluminum was known and available to TLR, and the special property of not being affected by Allomantic steel or iron would be known to him as well. And the Dream Team would not be able to make or procure more aluminum once in the FE. How many aluminum bullets would they be able to bring back, and how many guns?

Those would be useful in bringing down Inquisitors, especially the ones without spikes for F-gold, but even ones with them could be taken down with enough shots, as their goldminds would be limited to what health they stored by "resting" every night. They'd run out. But would they have enough bullets to take down 16-20 Inquisitors? Urk.

And I think the idea of going after Inquisitors is a bad one. Even as "practice". If you give TLR any kind of heads up that some crew armed with new technology is coming after him, starting with his most powerful servants, they'd be inviting him to sniff them out and then come to crush them in person with the full weight of his powers.

Time bubbles won't mean as much against TLR as you may think, even if he'd be very surprised: Leras had swapped out the temporal metals, cadmium and bendalloy, for atium/malatium. But he could just tap a steelmind at a higher multiplier than Wayne's bendalloy could do.

Chromium, now, is another story. Leeching was unknown in the Final Empire. But, it was in fact on the Allomantic Wheel of the time, unlike the temporal metals, and so would likely be known as A Thing to Rashek (alone), just not a metal available with the technology he was willing to allow in his Empire. I wonder what Leeching a Feruchemist tapping a metalmind would do? We haven't seen that, have we? My guess is they'd be interrupted in their tapping, but then could resume tapping after some short period of time?

The minus of chromium is that one needs to get close enough to TLR to Leech him in the first place, and that's a dangerous thing to attempt.

So, back to the trap idea. Surprise him somehow in a way that lets Kelsier and Vin get close enough to Leech him repeatedly, and hope that makes him temporarily unable to tap his metalminds for more attributes. Then plug him with aluminum bullets from an aluminum gun?

[Stefano]

11 minutes ago, robardin said:

You have to define what the Dream Team's goal is in going back Terminator-style, in pursuit of a saboteur from a shared future they come from.

It isn't going to be "we must kill The Lord Ruler and then renew the Well's power", as that would just leave Scadrial in the World of Ash but without a Lord Ruler, and only serve to buy another 1,024 years before Ruin plays his next gambit to manipulate towards his eventual release. The goal would need to be to ensure Harmony's Ascension, by killing the saboteur. They should avoid confronting TLR entirely, or interacting with Kell and his crew.

But I get it: you're not doing this as a real what-if exercise (if that phrase even makes any sense), but as a framework for considering an assassination attempt on an unwitting Lord Ruler before he killed Kelsier, if Wax, Wayne, and Marasi were able to cross over from another parallel dimension to aid Kell and his crew (including a trained Vin) towards that goal, armed with info, future technology, weapons, and metals. And without using Vin's mist-fueled power level. And ignoring whatever else would happen next to this Scadrial-Beta timeline, they're here on safari!

So let's focus on that.

The only way to remove Rashek's bracers was for Vin to draw in the mists, and you've ruled that out as something anybody would be able to do, then TLR has nigh-infinite metalminds in every FE era Feruchemical attribute, plus enough Allomantic strength to Push or Pull on the metals in people's stomachs. The Dream Team won't be able to kill him in a head-to-head confrontation, like a pit fight.

My TLDR take would be: The Dream Team still won't be able to kill him in an open, head-to-head confrontation. But Kelsier, Wax, and Wayne could likely plan a clever trap, along the lines of the ideas in the several threads discussing "How To Kill The Lord Ruler", using foreknowledge, the element of surprise, and taking advantage of his initial overconfidence.

Aluminum was known and available to TLR, and the special property of not being affected by Allomantic steel or iron would be known to him as well. And the Dream Team would not be able to make or procure more aluminum once in the FE. How many aluminum bullets would they be able to bring back, and how many guns?

Those would be useful in bringing down Inquisitors, especially the ones without spikes for F-gold, but even ones with them could be taken down with enough shots, as their goldminds would be limited to what health they stored by "resting" every night. They'd run out. But would they have enough bullets to take down 16-20 Inquisitors? Urk.

And I think the idea of going after Inquisitors is a bad one. Even as "practice". If you give TLR any kind of heads up that some crew armed with new technology is coming after him, starting with his most powerful servants, they'd be inviting him to sniff them out and then come to crush them in person with the full weight of his powers.

Time bubbles won't mean as much against TLR as you may think, even if he'd be very surprised: Leras had swapped out the temporal metals, cadmium and bendalloy, for atium/malatium. But he could just tap a steelmind at a higher multiplier than Wayne's bendalloy could do.

Chromium, now, is another story. Leeching was unknown in the Final Empire. But, it was in fact on the Allomantic Wheel of the time, unlike the temporal metals, and so would likely be known as A Thing to Rashek (alone), just not a metal available with the technology he was willing to allow in his Empire. I wonder what Leeching a Feruchemist tapping a metalmind would do? We haven't seen that, have we? My guess is they'd be interrupted in their tapping, but then could resume tapping after some short period of time?

The minus of chromium is that one needs to get close enough to TLR to Leech him in the first place, and that's a dangerous thing to attempt.

So, back to the trap idea. Surprise him somehow in a way that lets Kelsier and Vin get close enough to Leech him repeatedly, and hope that makes him temporarily unable to tap his metalminds for more attributes. Then plug him with aluminum bullets from an aluminum gun?

The goal is to kill the lord ruler, then make sazed take the power of the well and restore all as it was (and will be, wax and wayne will be sent to their unaltered timeline)

Leeching a feruchemist tapping his metalmind should be useless, but for sure you block his ability to flare metalminds. Without allomantically charging them the metalminds run out normally.

Wax has some time to prepare before going back, so he has vindication, silver guns and bullets, all known metals of the future to provide kel and vin.

Kelsier and vin can use duraluminium and chromium, and know how to slain inquisitors thanks to spook's book.

A well prepared sazed can easly grab and hold the lord ruler with steel and pewter charged metalminds, then the mistborns can reach him and use chromium.

They can also rip off his bracers with duralumin enhanced pewter flare, or maybe even with a double duralumin enhanced double iron flare.

Not mentioning vindication and the silver bullets, who can easly distract lord ruler while he fights the 2 best mistborns ever known.

I'm not even sure tht lord ruler has cadmium, in that case that's another crew advantage

 

PS: sorry for my english, I'm not a native speaker

 

 

[+robardin]

18 minutes ago, Stefano said:

The goal is to kill the lord ruler, then make sazed take the power of the well and restore all as it was (and will be, wax and wayne will be sent to their unaltered timeline)

Leeching a feruchemist tapping his metalmind should be useless, but for sure you block his ability to flare metalminds. Without allomantically charging them the metalminds run out normally.

Wax has some time to prepare before going back, so he has vindication, silver guns and bullets, all known metals of the future to provide kel and vin.

Kelsier and vin can use duraluminium and chromium, and know how to slain inquisitors thanks to spook's book.

A well prepared sazed can easly grab and hold the lord ruler with steel and pewter charged metalminds, then the mistborns can reach him and use chromium.

They can also rip off his bracers with duralumin enhanced pewter flare, or maybe even with a double duralumin enhanced double iron flare.

Not mentioning vindication and the silver bullets, who can easly distract lord ruler while he fights the 2 best mistborns ever known.

I'm not even sure tht lord ruler has cadmium, in that case that's another crew advantage

No worries about your English, mate, you're doing fine

Killing TLR and having Sazed take the power of the Well won't make him Harmony; he needs to take up the full Shard, not just the temporary Ascension granted by the Well, plus destroy Ati as the vessel of Ruin (which only Vin was equipped to do, as a self-sacrifice) and then take that Shard up at the same time (given how they reacted, it's possible he could only combine them with a simultaneous Ascension, as he did). And it was implied at the end of Hero of Ages that Sazed would not have been able to take up Ruin without being, well, ruined by his experience of loss with Tindwyl.

Anyway, it's fun enough to discuss a "Wax, Wayne, and Marasi plan to go on an alt-history timeline hopping hunting trip, to bag a Lord Ruler" scenario.

I do not think Sazed can catch TLR just with his own steelminds, he won't have enough stored in them versus the amount Rashek would have in his. Maybe with the element of surprise, but the window would be pretty small to operate in, before TLR responded with floor wiping power.

Don't forget the awesome Soothing power of the Lord Ruler, too. He all but Soothed Vin into a catatonic state in the throne room when getting her to point out Tevidian as her father. He obviously let up on that afterward, so she could appreciate his monologue. Now imagine him Rioting his opponents' fear of him at the same time. The Era 2 heroes would be particularly unprepared for it, since emotional Allomancy is so regulated in their time, much less dealing with the strength of Rashek's Allomancy.

Whatever they come up with to handle him would have to be quick. I think Leeching is the best option, if we only knew how long it would disrupt him tapping his metalminds.

Edited October 1, 2019 by robardin

[Stefano]

It's just a random plot to make the fight happen.

If lord ruler sees it coming of course hw wipes the floor with them, but i don't think he expects sazed to tap steel and pewter and seize him (2 seconds should be enough for kelsier to reach him and leech)

Once metal reserves are wiped, lord ruler becomes a "regular" feruchemist, with no compounding advantage.

A feruchemist with tons of attributes stored, vs 2 mistborns, a full feruchemist ready to fight, an equipped bounty hunter from the future ad some nice badass guys.

I guess wayne, masari and hams can take the inquisitors alone, since they how to kill them and have silver shotguns/speed bubble combinations

I'd love to see the fight happening  

Another nice one would be hoid vs lord ruler

[+robardin]

I would love to "see" the expression on Rashek's face when he gets Leeched. An Allomantic power he doesn't know about. Inconceivable!

He would probably be able to use his MegaMetalMinds to get away, with F-steel, F-pewter, F-iron, and F-zinc to plan it all out in an eyeblink. (Super speed, combined with extreme weight and lots of instant healing from any physical damage absorbed, is basically to be a Juggernaut). So there would have to be more to it than Leeching him to gain a few seconds' window to most likely unsuccessfully kill him.

And, I'm not entirely sure about Rashek having metals to Leech. I more than half suspect his "special, beyond lerasium" strength in Allomancy that stem from his Ascension means he is able to power his Allomancy directly from Preservation all the time, without needing to burn metals to create a conduit. And you wouldn't be able to Leech that.

That is purely speculation, though.

[Dancer]

Remember Chromium burns really fast, as fast and Duralumin. also any metal that is piercing his body will be leached (this includes his bracers) as well as any in his stomach. 

Quote

 

Kaymyth

I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings.

Brandon Sanderson

What it boils down to is this:

1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off.

2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds.

3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal.

 

 

Leaching and Nicrobursting are extremely under utilised in era 2 Mistborn. Just remember the shear amount of investiture that his metal minds will have will probably put up huge resistance to any leaching by the two mistborns. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Dancer

[+robardin]

4 hours ago, Dancer said:

Remember Chromium burns really fast, as fast and Duralumin. also any metal that is piercing his body will be leached (this includes his bracers) as well as any in his stomach. 

Leaching and Nicrobursting are extremely under utilised in era 2 Mistborn. Just remember the shear amount of investiture that his metal minds will have will probably put up huge resistance to any leaching by the two mistborns. 

So, per that WoB, "a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds."

A few... Seconds? That seems almost OP. Also, shouldn't that only work to Leech a metalmind as it was being tapped? Otherwise a Leecher should be able to just Leech a metalmind directly, rather than touching the Feruchemist (the Feruchemist is only a conduit for the Investiture in the metalmind when tapping, or possibly while filling it).

That said, "a few seconds of holding on" and a good supply of chromium should work, then, to drain Rashek's atiumminds of youth that he must constantly tap, with the same effect of killing him via Spiritual Boomerang as his body tries to finally snap back to its proper age.

Therein lies the trick: getting both Vin and Kelsier, the chromium burners, in a position to maintain constant physical contact with Rashek, who would certainly sense what was going on, and be highly incentivized to escape.

How about an "Allomantic grenade"? If they can bring that from Era 2 and Leech him from a distance the way Irich did to Wax on the train in The Bands of Mourning, that would be all you need, really. Because now that they've established links with Allik's people, they could probably bring a small bag of those things. And Rashek would never have conceived of ettmetal/harmonium or what it is capable of doing or becoming, he would be dumbfounded.

I'm still not entirely sure that Rashek needs to burn metal in his stomach to perform Allomancy, but evidently his metalminds would be Leeched in the ordinary fashion, it would just take longer because of how full they'd be.

One more thing: I assume the Leecher needs "a few seconds" to be able to clean out a Compounder's overstuffed metalmind, for a single metal (a la Miles), and Rashek has such metalminds for all the metals. Would it require a chromium savant to target the atiummind specifically?

Imagine if he senses the Leeching effect, realizes what must be going on, and taps another, more full metalmind (since his atiummind got drained partway), "shunting" the Leeching effect to that metalmind while he taps other ones to effect his escape and/or immediate retribution. Like a brassmind. For all the planning, he just gets annoyed at feeling chilly for a few seconds for the first time in centuries instead of dying of old age.

Edited October 2, 2019 by robardin

[Stefano]

19 hours ago, robardin said:

How about an "Allomantic grenade"? If they can bring that from Era 2 and Leech him from a distance the way Irich did to Wax on the train in The Bands of Mourning, that would be all you need, really. Because now that they've established links with Allik's people, they could probably bring a small bag of those things. And Rashek would never have conceived of ettmetal/harmonium or what it is capable of doing or becoming, he would be dumbfounded.

it would be too unbalanced, that's why i specified "at the ent of alloy of law"

by the way, i'd like to see wax genious instinct aganist lord ruler, with a bunch of overpower allies. it looks like he can manage anything, including beating an ancient immortal crazy hemalurgist kandra face to face ^^'

Edited October 3, 2019 by Stefano

[Dancer]

18 hours ago, robardin said:

 

A few... Seconds? That seems almost OP. Also, shouldn't that only work to Leech a metalmind as it was being tapped? Otherwise a Leecher should be able to just Leech a metalmind directly, rather than touching the Feruchemist (the Feruchemist is only a conduit for the Investiture in the metalmind when tapping, or possibly while filling it).

 

From the news paper articles in BOM a Chromium misting details how he was able to leech an invested gun with his abilities. We don't know how reliable this is though. However Brandon has implied that Chromium mistings can leech just about anything since the mechanics are similar to the larkins and Nightblood.   

Quote

 

Questioner

If you were a Leecher, could you destroy a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm going to RAFO that for now, let's just say that it would be incredibly difficult if it were possible, and I'm not going to even say if it is. But that kind of power... 

Questioner

Let's just say they were burning duralumin as well.

Brandon Sanderson

Let's just say that the Investiture in a Shardblade is much greater than your average Allomancer, but... This type of thing is not unheard of in the Cosmere. The larkin, the Leechers, and Nightblood all have a similar sort of thing going on. Destroying a Shardblade would be really hard. And Investiture resists other forms of Investiture, so.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Dancer

[+robardin]

4 hours ago, Dancer said:

From the news paper articles in BOM a Chromium misting details how he was able to leech an invested gun with his abilities. We don't know how reliable this is though. However Brandon has implied that Chromium mistings can leech just about anything since the mechanics are similar to the larkins and Nightblood.   

i don't remember either of those tidbits, thanks!

So if burning metals with Allomancy can feed Nightblood, what about a Leecher burning chromium drawing Nightblood?

Added: I just text-searched my Kindle versions of Alloy of Law, Shadows of Self, and The Bands of Mourning, for any use of "chromium" and "leech", and didn't find the broadsheet bit you mentioned. Instead, I discovered that AoL has a typo, the first time Marasi chats with Wayne about her "slow time" bubble being so much less useful than Wayne's "fast time" version, both refer to her burning "chromium" instead of "cadmium", though the Ars Arcana in the back correctly states that chromium is for Leechers and cadmium is for Pulsers, and Wayne also says in that same conversation that he had had no access to bendalloy in the Roughs without Wax as "bismuth and cadmium aren't the kinds of metals you find in your corner store", it being the Allomantic alloy of cadmium for the reverse time effect.

And as for the question, "What if a Leecher drew Nightblood", that has been answered in a WoB:

Quote

Questioner

What would happen if a Leecher touched Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

*nervous laughter* If a Leecher touched Nightblood the Leecher would be dead. That would not end well.

Questioner

For the Leecher.

Brandon Sanderson

For the Leecher.

Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016)

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by robardin

[Dancer]

The news paper article I refereed to is on pg 314 of my copy. 

[Pathfinder]

3 hours ago, robardin said:

i don't remember either of those tidbits, thanks!

So if burning metals with Allomancy can feed Nightblood, what about a Leecher burning chromium drawing Nightblood?

Added: I just text-searched my Kindle versions of Alloy of Law, Shadows of Self, and The Bands of Mourning, for any use of "chromium" and "leech", and didn't find the broadsheet bit you mentioned. Instead, I discovered that AoL has a typo, the first time Marasi chats with Wayne about her "slow time" bubble being so much less useful than Wayne's "fast time" version, both refer to her burning "chromium" instead of "cadmium", though the Ars Arcana in the back correctly states that chromium is for Leechers and cadmium is for Pulsers, and Wayne also says in that same conversation that he had had no access to bendalloy in the Roughs without Wax as "bismuth and cadmium aren't the kinds of metals you find in your corner store", it being the Allomantic alloy of cadmium for the reverse time effect.

And as for the question, "What if a Leecher drew Nightblood", that has been answered in a WoB:

 

Its the story of the "Ghastly Gondola". The main character is a leecher. She pursues a man that is believed to be Nazh (I feel it was confirmed to be Nazh, but not sure if I can recall where). Nazh uses a "spirit gun" to fire what appears to be a shade at her, which dissolves the metal it hits. She touches the gun while burning chromium, and the gun stops working for a bit. 

[+robardin]

5 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Its the story of the "Ghastly Gondola". The main character is a leecher. She pursues a man that is believed to be Nazh (I feel it was confirmed to be Nazh, but not sure if I can recall where). Nazh uses a "spirit gun" to fire what appears to be a shade at her, which dissolves the metal it hits. She touches the gun while burning chromium, and the gun stops working for a bit. 

Ah, I found the image of the broadsheet! Interesting that a text search of BoM didn't find it, even though other text from "broadsheet" entries do.

It's even in the Coppermind wikia!

Very interesting and entertaining. In addition to meeting Nazh and nearly getting hit by some kind of Shade, she also has a Close Encounter of the Hoid Kind. And that map of New Seran that led to some kind of hidden treasure of artifacts... Was her father involved in the Set's research into Captain Jordis' crashed airship?

Edited October 3, 2019 by robardin

[Pathfinder]

On 10/3/2019 at 4:15 PM, robardin said:

Was her father involved in the Set's research into Captain Jordis' crashed airship?

I do not know if we found that or not. I have not heard anything, so I think it is still a mystery at this point, but as this is going off of recollection, take my statement with a grain of salt. 

[Karger]

Ohh I had a discussion with a friend that gives me a quick fix for this problem easy.  According to Vendell(BoM chapter three) if you blank your identity you can produce a metalmind that anyone can use.  All you need is aluminum which the team can get or bring with them.  Saze blanks his identity and stores several attributes including his investiture(I don't know if era 1 could get any nicrosil but era two can bring so it does not matter).  Vin or Kelsier burns this metal turning themselves into a fullborn and then they repeat the prossess turning everyone on the team into a fullborn.  Then it is just team of fullborn against TLR and we can have an atium burning F speed run to grab his bracers turning him into an old man which Vin then stabs.  Problem solved.

[Pathfinder]

3 minutes ago, Karger said:

Ohh I had a discussion with a friend that gives me a quick fix for this problem easy.  According to Vendell(BoM chapter three) if you blank your identity you can produce a metalmind that anyone can use.  All you need is aluminum which the team can get or bring with them.  Saze blanks his identity and stores several attributes including his investiture(I don't know if era 1 could get any nicrosil but era two can bring so it does not matter).  Vin or Kelsier burns this metal turning themselves into a fullborn and then they repeat the prossess turning everyone on the team into a fullborn.  Then it is just team of fullborn against TLR and we can have an atium burning F speed run to grab his bracers turning him into an old man which Vin then stabs.  Problem solved.

That only allows anyone who is already a feruchemist with that ability to use it. Not anyone at all. They still have not figured out how to make medallions that allow anyone without abilities to use any medallions. And the southerners that make medallions still have not figured out how to make a medallion for all of the powers. 

 

edit: to avoid confusion

Persona A makes a gold metal mind while storing identity

Person B is a gold feruchemist and can use the gold metal mind

Person C is a gold feruchemist and can use the gold metal mind

Person D is a steel feruchemist, and cannot use the gold metal mind

 

That is where we currently are at this time. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Karger]

2 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

That is where we currently are at this time. 

But they don't have full alomancers of feruchmists.  Kelseir also built the Bands somehow.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Karger

[Pathfinder]

22 minutes ago, Karger said:

But they don't have full alomancers of feruchmists.  Kelseir also built the Bands somehow.

Exactly. I am not saying it is not possible. What I am saying is you were going off of what Vendel said. What Vendel proposed only allows someone with that specific power to use it. So it won't matter whether it is your metal mind or mine, but only those that have that power can use it. It was not revealed how the Southerners were able to make medallions that anyone can use yet. We know it is possible, but we do not know the process. And even the southerners do not know how to make the bands. They only get up to two or three powers. Again not saying it is possible. I am just saying we do not know how to yet. 

[Karger]

22 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Exactly. I am not saying it is not possible. What I am saying is you were going off of what Vendel said. What Vendel proposed only allows someone with that specific power to use it

No.  You are thinking of southern tec again.  My idea is based on a theoretically sound principles.  The only reason a Mistborn can't get an effect from a metalmind is that metalminds are identity locked.  An unlocked metalmind should confer F abilities on the Mistborn burning it.  A fullborn should be able to make blank nicrosil metalmind that when tapped by a feruchemist grants alomancy by the same method.