Where did the Majority of the shards go

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

During WoK one of Dalinar’s Visions he see’s the Recreance. He estimates 200 shardbearers divesting themselves of there shards . He further gives an account of current shards . Alektkar has 20 , Jah keved has 20, and all remaining nations equal up to what the two major nations have collectively. So that is 80 shardblades . My question is where is the other 120 . Is there a hidden stockpile ? Maybe the parshendi have them hidden or is there just a big stockpile of shards somewhere on the shattered plains . Taln blade is not in the histories , not his honorblade but the blade that he showed up with in WoK was not in any scholars descriptions . So I’m trying to figure who is hiding all those shards . I really don’t think it’s the parshendi . My best guess is the heralds May have hidden them somewhere. Or some other Organization but that’s an aweful lot of shards to go unaccounted for 

[Chiberty]

There's way more than 120 missing shards. The knights in the vision were only of two orders: Windrunners and Stonewards. There are an extra 6 orders worth of missing shards.

Edited September 29, 2019 by ChickenLiberty

[Zapata]

20 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

During WoK one of Dalinar’s Visions he see’s the Recreance. He estimates 200 shardbearers divesting themselves of there shards . He further gives an account of current shards . Alektkar has 20 , Jah keved has 20, and all remaining nations equal up to what the two major nations have collectively. So that is 80 shardblades . My question is where is the other 120 . Is there a hidden stockpile ? Maybe the parshendi have them hidden or is there just a big stockpile of shards somewhere on the shattered plains . Taln blade is not in the histories , not his honorblade but the blade that he showed up with in WoK was not in any scholars descriptions . So I’m trying to figure who is hiding all those shards . I really don’t think it’s the parshendi . My best guess is the heralds May have hidden them somewhere. Or some other Organization but that’s an aweful lot of shards to go unaccounted for 

Well, the Skybreakers probably have a few, since they gave a dead blade and plate to Helaran. But they can't have collected every missing Shardblade. But also, Dalinar's Recreance vision was of just the Windrunners and Stonewards. And maybe not even all of them. But that leaves 6 other orders of Radiants (excluding the Skybreakers and the Bondsmiths) unaccounted for. So it's a much larger amount of missing Blades and Plate than just 120.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Bearer of Agonies

[SanderFan69]

I'm not sure if you've read all the books yet but ... Oathbringer Spoilers

Spoiler

One theory (and the one that I think makes the most sense) is that the Shin invasion referenced briefly in Oathbringer (at least I think it was Oathbringer) was the Shin attacking the rest of Roshar in order to get all of the shardblades. Foreigners are not allowed deep into Shin territory so it would be relatively easy for the to hide the stockpile from the rest of the world. 

There are also a couple other theories out there:

- They are in Shadesmere

- They are in Aimia and that is the "treasure" that the sleepless are protecting

- People just misplaced them over the years

But nobody knows for sure.

Also, since, in his vision, Dalinar only saw 2 of the 8 orders who gave up their blades(bondsmiths don't have any and the skybreakers never gave them up), there are likely closer to 800 total shardblades, putting the number of unaccounted blades at 720.

 

[Karger]

You have found one of the great SA mysteries.  Congratulations.  You can now join the rest of us in bashing our heads against the wall.

[Gilphon]

It's not hard for me to imagine that a good number got misplaced over the years. Naval battles are a great way for weapons to end up stranded at the bottom of the ocean, for example. 

But I'm not sure it makes sense for that to be the entire explanation- a blade or plate would've had to go missing every six months on average to get that kind of attrition over a mere thousand years, and that seems awfully high, considering how prized they are. But then you have to account for people like Liss; Shardbearers who keep that status hidden and thus aren't part of each country's total, so that could make things more believable. 

[Vissy]

Dalinar hid all of them in his toilet in Urithiru and then forgot about them. 

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

15 hours ago, SanderFan69 said:

I'm not sure if you've read all the books yet but ... Oathbringer Spoilers

  Hide contents

One theory (and the one that I think makes the most sense) is that the Shin invasion referenced briefly in Oathbringer (at least I think it was Oathbringer) was the Shin attacking the rest of Roshar in order to get all of the shardblades. Foreigners are not allowed deep into Shin territory so it would be relatively easy for the to hide the stockpile from the rest of the world. 

There are also a couple other theories out there:

- They are in Shadesmere

- They are in Aimia and that is the "treasure" that the sleepless are protecting

- People just misplaced them over the years

But nobody knows for sure.

Also, since, in his vision, Dalinar only saw 2 of the 8 orders who gave up their blades(bondsmiths don't have any and the skybreakers never gave them up), there are likely closer to 800 total shardblades, putting the number of unaccounted blades at 720.

 

Considering the enormous light you have shed on this , I’m convinced there is conspiracy involved . Only 80 active shards out of around 750 . I like your Aimian theory best . While I doubt they are in shadesmar with no physical counterpart in the physical Realm . Just think if Jasnah or someone capable of entering shadesmar without a perpindicularity could travel to Aimian island for example. He or she would see 700 spren with burned out eyes standing around silent looking rediculous ! That person could enter the physical at that point snatch up all the shards . And get them back to non Radiants who could use them. I imagine even with the new Radiant blades , every sword that could cut stone would be needed.

[Zapata]

1 minute ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Considering the enormous light you have shed on this , I’m convinced there is conspiracy involved . Only 80 active shards out of around 750.

It's been shown that at least one of the covert organizations has access to unknown blades. Helaran's Blade, which he got from the Skybreakers, was not in any official records, if I recall correctly. So the Skybreakers have at least a couple dead Shardblades lying around. I think that there could definitely be some in Aimia, as well, since they're all so secretive about that place.

[Toaster Retribution]

They are on Vax.

[Aon Tia]

shin have the honorbldes, they may have shardblades too. they did fight in their shin invasion with shards.

It is likely that after the massacre of Dalinar's vision, other radiants may have decided that they need to put there shards in some place safe. 

On 9/29/2019 at 7:33 AM, ChickenLiberty said:

There's way more than 120 missing shards. The knights in the vision were only of two orders: Windrunners and Stonewards. There are an extra 6 orders worth of missing shards.

I also dont think that these knights represented the entirety of their orders. I think these were just the knights of these order that were in the area.

[Vissy]

There was also no way that all of the knights agreed with the plan in the first place, which means that some Shards were never abandoned to begin with (Skybreakers come to mind).

I actually wonder why the Skybreakers never tried to seize the known Shards by force, as they probably had the greatest claim to them and would have felt justified in doing so. Nale might have thought that their rightful place was in Shin, but if so knowing him he would've done anything in his power to make sure that all of the Shards ended up there. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Vissy

[Aon Tia]

It is possible @Vissy especially since nale does have access to extra shards seeing as he gave one to Helaran

[DefyTheOdds]

On 9/28/2019 at 10:09 PM, SanderFan69 said:

I'm not sure if you've read all the books yet but ... Oathbringer Spoilers

  Hide contents

One theory (and the one that I think makes the most sense) is that the Shin invasion referenced briefly in Oathbringer (at least I think it was Oathbringer) was the Shin attacking the rest of Roshar in order to get all of the shardblades. Foreigners are not allowed deep into Shin territory so it would be relatively easy for the to hide the stockpile from the rest of the world. 

There are also a couple other theories out there:

- They are in Shadesmere

- They are in Aimia and that is the "treasure" that the sleepless are protecting

- People just misplaced them over the years

But nobody knows for sure.

Also, since, in his vision, Dalinar only saw 2 of the 8 orders who gave up their blades(bondsmiths don't have any and the skybreakers never gave them up), there are likely closer to 800 total shardblades, putting the number of unaccounted blades at 720.

 

I personally really like this

Spoiler

Shin

theory, it always really bothered me but I didn't put much thought into it. I think the fact that the we're going to have an upcoming book with a focus in that location points to some deep history finally being revealed. 

[Kalaksbreath]

I think the shin have them in a big stock with the rest of the honor blades like @SanderFan69 said. Or they have given them to their soldiers with oathstones and they have sworn to never summon them except for in some rare circumstances and never in front of foreigners. 

[Torchwood17]

It's probably a combination of all the aforementioned reasons shards are missing. Some were misplaced and covered with crem, some are in the hands of various secret organizations, some are in the hands of individuals who keep the fact they have them hidden, like the assassin Jasnah talks to in her prelude, and there likely is a secret stash, maybe even two out there with a lot of shards. 

@The Traveler this is not really related to this thread, but it's likely the Windrunners and Skybreakers meant for the massacre we see in Dalinars vision to take place because that was what forced their oaths to be broken. There was a great thread I read where it went really into depth on that, but I can't remember what it was named.

My two cents, I think the Shin likely have collected a bunch of them via their Stone Shamans. Szeth was convinced when he was killed, his Honorblade would be would be collected by the Stone Shamans which to me says they have more powers than normal. After all, whoever kills the Assassin in White surely would have been decently powerful, yet Szeth is just like, yeah, they'll get the Honorblade when I'm dead, no problem. That's where I think the majority of the shards are, but some are sprinkled throughout the rest of Roshar in all kinds of situations. Who knows, maybe some in Urithiru, that tower is huge and we likely haven't discovered all of it's secrets yet. Where better to hide shardblades than the abandoned home of the ancient Knight Radiants?

[Lord Mist]

could they be what the voidbringers are digging up in the palace? 

[Quantus]

On 9/29/2019 at 2:11 PM, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Considering the enormous light you have shed on this , I’m convinced there is conspiracy involved . Only 80 active shards out of around 750 . I like your Aimian theory best . While I doubt they are in shadesmar with no physical counterpart in the physical Realm . Just think if Jasnah or someone capable of entering shadesmar without a perpindicularity could travel to Aimian island for example. He or she would see 700 spren with burned out eyes standing around silent looking rediculous ! That person could enter the physical at that point snatch up all the shards . And get them back to non Radiants who could use them. I imagine even with the new Radiant blades , every sword that could cut stone would be needed.

I could be mistaken, but I dont think that's how it works.  From the other descriptions of things, a spren doesnt exist that way in the Cognitive Realm while they have been manifest in the Physcial Realm, rather they "Drop" the same way non-sapient spren like Mandra's do.  So there was no Deadeye of Maya running (floating?) around Shadesmar while Adolin had her deadete corpse-blade, it was only when he physcially returned that corpse that it manifested as the eyeless person we saw.  So it would follow that the rest of the Deadeye's arent living a dual existence either, and thus it would mean any deadeye we saw in shadesmar (Capt. Ico's father for example) are example of Shardbaldes that have been recovered by the spren and returned to Shadesmar.  Otherwise it would mean that during OB there was a deadeye wandering about shadesmar (Maya) that really  freaked out her caretakerzs when she randomly teleported to where ever it was that Adolin&Co arrive after the oathgate fiasco.

[Pathfinder]

47 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I could be mistaken, but I dont think that's how it works.  From the other descriptions of things, a spren doesnt exist that way in the Cognitive Realm while they have been manifest in the Physcial Realm, rather they "Drop" the same way non-sapient spren like Mandra's do.  So there was no Deadeye of Maya running (floating?) around Shadesmar while Adolin had her deadete corpse-blade, it was only when he physcially returned that corpse that it manifested as the eyeless person we saw.  So it would follow that the rest of the Deadeye's arent living a dual existence either, and thus it would mean any deadeye we saw in shadesmar (Capt. Ico's father for example) are example of Shardbaldes that have been recovered by the spren and returned to Shadesmar.  Otherwise it would mean that during OB there was a deadeye wandering about shadesmar (Maya) that really  freaked out her caretakerzs when she randomly teleported to where ever it was that Adolin&Co arrive after the oathgate fiasco.

WoB state the distance from the spren to the blade does matter for the number of heartbeats it takes to summon. However he said you would practically have to be on the other side of the planet, or on another planet to notice a slight difference (like one extra beat for instance). As a side note, this WoB, is why I also feel the summoning of the perpendicularity, bringing the three realms closer together, is what resulted in Maya summoning in less heartbeats, and responding. To me there is less distance. Many disagree. But felt the need to include that information. 

[Quantus]

18 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

WoB state the distance from the spren to the blade does matter for the number of heartbeats it takes to summon. However he said you would practically have to be on the other side of the planet, or on another planet to notice a slight difference (like one extra beat for instance). As a side note, this WoB, is why I also feel the summoning of the perpendicularity, bringing the three realms closer together, is what resulted in Maya summoning in less heartbeats, and responding. To me there is less distance. Many disagree. But felt the need to include that information. 

Interesting!  Im not sure if that helps or hurts my point, but it's something I didnt know.  One interpretation would be that a dismissed deadeye blade goes back to shadesmar as an eyeless, located wherever their families keep them, and they Drop like a Mandra when summoned. The other possibility is that they exist as both at the same time (a manifest spren in the Physical Realm and simultaneously as a deadeye somewhere in a non-correlating location in Shadesmar.  

 

PS.  Did you mean to add a link?

[Pathfinder]

24 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Interesting!  Im not sure if that helps or hurts my point, but it's something I didnt know.  One interpretation would be that a dismissed deadeye blade goes back to shadesmar as an eyeless, located wherever their families keep them, and they Drop like a Mandra when summoned. The other possibility is that they exist as both at the same time (a manifest spren in the Physical Realm and simultaneously as a deadeye somewhere in a non-correlating location in Shadesmar.  

 

PS.  Did you mean to add a link?

here is it:

 

Questioner

Is there any effect on a Shardblade if the deadeye is really far away from where the Blade is?

Brandon Sanderson

Define really.

Questioner

The one that's trapped on the ship. Let's say they're taking him to the far side of Shadesmar, but the dude that owns that Blade lives in...

Brandon Sanderson

We will deal with that in the books. There is an effect, but that's not enough of an effect.

Overlord Jebus

Considering no one says that their Shardblade is acting weird in two and a half thousand years.

Brandon Sanderson

That happens all the time in Shadesmar. If you were able to get it off the planet, it would have an effect.

Questioner

If you as the owner of the Shardblade were offworld and you tried to summon it, that would be the effect?

Brandon Sanderson

Either way. But you can't take spren off-world. I mean, you can, but you can't really. Really all that I have in the notes for it to do right now, is to add slightly more time. So you're like, "That's weird that felt like not ten heartbeats, it felt like twelve." But it's like, you're on another planet, then it's suddenly speed of light type stuff. So suddenly it's like, "This is taking three years instead. That's a pretty big deal!"

...So I've got a few weird speed of light things mixed into the cosmere, and that's one of them.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

[Quantus]

11 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

here is it:

 

Questioner

Is there any effect on a Shardblade if the deadeye is really far away from where the Blade is?

Brandon Sanderson

Define really.

Questioner

The one that's trapped on the ship. Let's say they're taking him to the far side of Shadesmar, but the dude that owns that Blade lives in...

Brandon Sanderson

We will deal with that in the books. There is an effect, but that's not enough of an effect.

Overlord Jebus

Considering no one says that their Shardblade is acting weird in two and a half thousand years.

Brandon Sanderson

That happens all the time in Shadesmar. If you were able to get it off the planet, it would have an effect.

Questioner

If you as the owner of the Shardblade were offworld and you tried to summon it, that would be the effect?

Brandon Sanderson

Either way. But you can't take spren off-world. I mean, you can, but you can't really. Really all that I have in the notes for it to do right now, is to add slightly more time. So you're like, "That's weird that felt like not ten heartbeats, it felt like twelve." But it's like, you're on another planet, then it's suddenly speed of light type stuff. So suddenly it's like, "This is taking three years instead. That's a pretty big deal!"

...So I've got a few weird speed of light things mixed into the cosmere, and that's one of them.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

Awesome, thanks! That sounds to me like they do Drop when the shardblade is summoned but they exist as a Deadeye somewhere in shadesmar when not manifested, do you read it the same way.  

 

 

To the OP:  I tend to think it's a combination of various groups hoarding them in secret, with a lesser contribution being buried under layers of crem on forgotten battlefields.  The Singers had some, which would not have been included in Dalinar's accounting.  The Shin almost certainly have some, as did the Sons of Honor and the Ghostbloods.  The Diagram probably does as well.  And there would undoubtedly be some that have spent their histories on the black market and/or in criminal hands rather than royal hands.  

[Pathfinder]

17 hours ago, Quantus said:

 

Awesome, thanks! That sounds to me like they do Drop when the shardblade is summoned but they exist as a Deadeye somewhere in shadesmar when not manifested, do you read it the same way.  

 

 

To the OP:  I tend to think it's a combination of various groups hoarding them in secret, with a lesser contribution being buried under layers of crem on forgotten battlefields.  The Singers had some, which would not have been included in Dalinar's accounting.  The Shin almost certainly have some, as did the Sons of Honor and the Ghostbloods.  The Diagram probably does as well.  And there would undoubtedly be some that have spent their histories on the black market and/or in criminal hands rather than royal hands.  

Yep. That if they are far away from their summoner, it takes longer for their "self" to travel to that location in the physical realm, from where-ever they currently are which is why there is a difference in heart beat number.