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Extremes of A-compounding


Dancer

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We know what some of the extremes of F-compounding can do. Gold makes you nigh invulnerable, Atium makes you nigh immortal, bronze means you will never need to sleep. What do you think the extremes of A-compounding will be. We know of two, steel and iron. steel and iron A-compounding allows you to push and pull on objects with ridicules power, even overcoming the soul interference from metal that is inside someone's body. for me one of the most interesting ones would be pewter. We know that A-pewter increases ones physical abilities by reinforcing ones bones and muscles with investiture. My idea is that if you were able to A-compound then your body would be so ridiculously reinforced that you would become bullet proof.  

Copper is also an interesting one. From what we understand of it, it is able to hide both your kinetic and innate investiture. This is evidenced when Brandon said that copper would protect you from being detected by life sense. We also know that Hoid is able to hide from being detected from Shards so my theory is that A-compounded copper would allow you to hide your investiture (both kinetic and innate) from detection in both the SR and the CR. 

What are some of the others that you can think of. 

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Personally my favorite would have to be compounding A-Cadmium. Why?

Because I want to be able to sit around for a few seconds and then be something like 100 years in the future, having basically not aged. All of the cosmere would be written at that point and they'd be classics. :P

You could actually do something like this if you were a mistborn or had a nicroburst buddy. Flare duralumin/nicrosil, then flare cadmium, make a bubble that slows time down inside it a ton. Presumably the amount of time you jump forwards is based on the cadmium reserves inside the Pulser/Mistborn. Finding out the ratio of grams of Cadmium to years forwards would probably be wise to do in advance.

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I would only do this if I had no friends and family. After all if you had any they would wonder why you were staying in the same spot not moving for years and years. Also why are you not responding to them for birthday invitations, family dinners and the like. 

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19 minutes ago, Dancer said:

I would only do this if I had no friends and family. After all if you had any they would wonder why you were staying in the same spot not moving for years and years. Also why are you not responding to them for birthday invitations, family dinners and the like. 

That's fair. Or invite them along for the ride! Cadmium bubbles can be room sized after all.

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7 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

That's fair. Or invite them along for the ride! Cadmium bubbles can be room sized after all.

That will work. What would happen if you A-compounded Chromium. would you essentially be a human Nightblood (obviously not that powerful but something similar).  

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Just now, Dancer said:

That will work. What would happen if you A-compounded Chromium. would you essentially be a human Nightblood (obviously not that powerful but something similar).  

If you could sustain it somehow, yeah... Actually, maybe Chromium savantism could give you an aura that saps kinetic investiture very near to you. Compounding A-Chromium could possibly do something very similar at high enough power.

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Seriously there is so much potential for A-compounding it is a shame that we have only seen one person the LR do it. Even then we only saw him do this with steel, iron and brass. We need to see an A-compounder in either er3 or 4, if not it will be a huge wast of potential.  

PS: I guess you could count Vin channeling the mists as pseudo compounding due to the extreme power she was able to unleash.  

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1 minute ago, Dancer said:

Seriously there is so much potential for A-compounding it is a shame that we have only seen one person the LR do it. Even then we only saw him do this with steel, iron and brass. We need to see an A-compounder in either er3 or 4, if not it will be a huge wast of potential.  

PS: I guess you could count Vin channeling the mists as pseudo compounding due to the extreme power she was able to unleash.  

A-Compounding Electrum makes me wonder just what you'd see...

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9 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

A-Compounding Electrum makes me wonder just what you'd see...

 

Wigginns

What would a Hemalurgic spike granting atium do for an Allomancer already able to burn atium? Does it function similarly to bronze, granting enhanced atium-ing? Along this line of thought, would enhancing electrum burning via spike be of any advantage?

Brandon Sanderson

A spike of something you have would enhance your ability, giving your more strength. With atium, more strength makes for a minimal edge--the length you can push out the atium shadows. However, there's a certain breaking point where you kind of crack the whole system, peer straight into the [Spiritual Realm], and kind of have a "It's full of stars" moment.

Electrum could reach this same moment, potentially, though there's more interference to fight through. Extra strength in electrum isn't going to be terribly useful up to that point.

Alsadius

Is that what happened when atium was burned with duralumin?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

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Just now, Dancer said:

I an sure those two things are related I don't know how though. I would assume the same thing would happen with gold since

 

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when Kelsier flared malatium when he was dying he was able to see into the SR to find out that Rashek was the LR.

  

Spoiler

It's been said that effect might also be due to him transitioning between realms while dying, but idk if that's confirmed or not.

What would A-Compounding Duralumin do for a mistborn? Could you then also A-Compound the metals being burned by Duralumin? ._ .

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I think that Duralumin would be the least useful of the metals to compound after tin. It would let you use up your compounded stores probably without the wast associated with tapping at high rates and could probably control the rate of burn of any metal your burning at the time but that's probably it

 

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I'm rather confused by this entire discussion. What is "A-compounding"?

As I understood it, Compounding in the Metallic Arts refers to burning a Feruchemical metalmind with Allomancy for the same metal, resulting in the net-positive-gain mechanics of Allomancy combining with the attribute stored in the metalmind for a higher return (10x, I think it is) of the attribute than was stored.

In other words, Compounding only ever gets you the Feruchemical attribute, not the Allomantic effect of burning the metal, at least not with a multiplier effect. Yet you seem to be talking about "Compounding" a Steelpush or duralumin boost.

On 9/28/2019 at 5:49 AM, Dancer said:

What do you think the extremes of A-compounding will be. We know of two, steel and iron. steel and iron A-compounding allows you to push and pull on objects with ridicules power, even overcoming the soul interference from metal that is inside someone's body.

What is this referring to? The only times I can remember an Allomancer pushing/pulling "with ridiculous power" on metals inside another person's body are:

  1. Rashek vs. Vin/Marsh in the throne room, where he's simply the Most Powerful Allomancer Ever (beyond lerasium level) due to his Ascension and self-modification
  2. Vin, also in the throne room and then her Kredik Shaw Inquiistor Beatdown, when drawing on the mists (the power of Preservation itself)
  3. Marasi, wielding the Bands of Mourning to escape the Set (which contains as-yet-unexplained mist-generating-level strength of Allomancy)

Your later quote referencing a WoB about increasing one's Allomantic ability with hemalurgy for the same ability is NOT Compounding, but simply "stacking" - the way that Vin was able to pierce copperclouds when wearing the earring that was actually a spike for F-bronze her mother created by murdering her baby sister, who had been a Seeker. That's like a doubling effect at best, depending on the strength of the source Allomancer, minus some hemalurgic loss. It would not result in a recursively applicable "nigh infinite" Allomantic power.

Is that what you're referring to? In which case, spiking an Augur with an additional spike for A-gold to intensify the horrible experience does sound pretty funny.

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30 minutes ago, robardin said:

What is this referring to? The only times I can remember an Allomancer pushing/pulling "with ridiculous power" on metals inside another person's body are:

  1. Rashek vs. Vin/Marsh in the throne room, where he's simply the Most Powerful Allomancer Ever (beyond lerasium level) due to his Ascension and self-modification
  2. Vin, also in the throne room and then her Kredik Shaw Inquiistor Beatdown, when drawing on the mists (the power of Preservation itself)
  3. Marasi, wielding the Bands of Mourning to escape the Set (which contains as-yet-unexplained mist-generating-level strength of Allomancy)

Your later quote referencing a WoB about increasing one's Allomantic ability with hemalurgy for the same ability is NOT Compounding, but simply "stacking" - the way that Vin was able to pierce copperclouds when wearing the earring that was actually a spike for F-bronze her mother created by murdering her baby sister, who had been a Seeker. That's like a doubling effect at best, depending on the strength of the source Allomancer, minus some hemalurgic loss. It would not result in a recursively applicable "nigh infinite" Allomantic power.

Is that what you're referring to? In which case, spiking an Augur with an additional spike for A-gold to intensify the horrible experience does sound pretty funny.

I imagine A-compounding to be a hack of normal compounding of Nicrosil. It works on the commonly accepted theory that you can store Kinetic Investiture (as opposed to sDNA) in a Nicrosilmind. You store Allomantic charge in the Nicrosilmind, then Allomantically burn it.

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49 minutes ago, Bearer of Agonies said:

I imagine A-compounding to be a hack of normal compounding of Nicrosil. It works on the commonly accepted theory that you can store Kinetic Investiture (as opposed to sDNA) in a Nicrosilmind. You store Allomantic charge in the Nicrosilmind, then Allomantically burn it.

Maybe that would work. But we don't know, do we? That's what puzzled me about "we know of two" (examples of so-called "A-compounding") when by my count, we know of zero so far in canonically published works. If there was a recent WoB or something, I would like to know about it.

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here is a WoB implying that A-compounding is possible and that the Lord Ruler was doing this.

Quote

 

Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011)
#2 Share  Copy

 
 

Chaos (paraphrased)

I continued to ask about the Lord Ruler and his Allomantic strength.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There's an upper bound to the amount of power you can get from being a savant. Brandon said that, obviously, the Lord Ruler wasn't using duralumin and Elend could only get that powerful in Soothing using duralumin. He implied that there was a way to Compound to enhance Allomancy.

Here is a WOB that outright states that the Lord Ruler can and did A-compound 

Quote

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)
#11Sept. 26, 2012 Share  Copy

 
 

dyring

A Coinshot able to store weight can, as you showed us with Wax Push in a ridiculously powerful manner, as the weight/mass is the largest factor which controls the Push strength.

I'm wondering if the same can be done with soothing(or rioting). If you where to increase your identity, that may/should increase your emotional imprint(or whatever you might call it), would your soothings/riotings become vastly more powerful in a similar way as weight makes steelpushing more powerful?

And if it does, is this how the Lord Ruler improved his Soothing in such a spectacular fashion?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, the Lord Ruler--don't forget--could compound any Allomancy he wanted. That creates some crazy effects. As for what you discuss in your first question, I don't want to touch too much on Identity yet as I am saving it for later books. Talking too much here might undermine my ability to reveal interesting and cool things in books when the time is right. I like your theory, and it has merit, but I'm not going to give you a yes or a no as it delves too much into what Identity, as an attribute, can do.

Edited by Dancer
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3 minutes ago, Dancer said:

here is a WoB implying that A-compounding is possible and that the Lord Ruler was doing this.

 

 

Interesting. So you're saying that A-compounding isn't Kinetic Nicrosilminds, but instead is pairing up each Allomantic power with a Feruchemial power that complements it? Wax would be an A-compounder, if that interpretation is correct. What other examples of this could you think of?

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It most likely is, we don't know the mechanics as of right now. I don't think that Brandon was confirming the questioners theory merely stating that The Lord Ruler was using compounding to enhance his soothing. It would be very nice for Brandon to tell us how it works but we won't know for a long time. IIRC we are going to get the completion of the Sel trilogy before we go back to Scadiral after the Lost Metal.

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Just now, Bearer of Agonies said:

Interesting. So you're saying that A-compounding isn't Kinetic Nicrosilminds, but instead is pairing up each Allomantic power with a Feruchemial power that complements it? Wax would be an A-compounder, if that interpretation is correct. What other examples of this could you think of?

Again, we have not seen Allomancy compounded, in a first person, "this is how it's done" way. At best, that WoB implies that TLR had found a way to do it - not that anybody else had ever figured it out, or might even be capable of it (there's never been another Fullborn). And there were other, later WoBs explaining Rashek's power level in Allomancy as being a direct Spiritweb self-modification only possible via Ascension:

 

Quote

 

Chris King

Did the Lord Ruler use lerasium to gain his super Allomantic abilities or did he grant that to himself with the Well's power? If he used the bead, does he count as one of the nine original Allomancers that Sazed mentions?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. He did not use the bead. He-- In all of this he granted himself basically, he rebuilt himself to be extremely powerful and he did not use one of the beads.

Chris King interview (Sept. 24, 2013)

 

Perhaps his Spiritweb twiddling was key to any Compounding of Allomancy, beyond just having both Feruchemy and Allomancy, which mechanics naturally lead to a net-gain from Feruchemical stores. We just don't know.

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how exactly would allomantic compounding work? to be honest, I didn't fully understand how f-compunding works...

for example gold: a twinborn stores gold in a metalmind, ingests it, burns it, and stores the x10 healing in another metalmind? that means miles constantly ingests metalminds and stores it in new ones? quite expensive ^^;

can't figure out how it would work the other way around: twinborn finds a way to store allomantic power in the metalminds?

Edited by Stefano
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5 minutes ago, Stefano said:

can't figure out how it would work the other way around: twinborn finds a way to store allomantic power in the metalminds?

Yeah. Nicrosil ferring storing allomantic charge is one theory. Another is that each Allomantic power has a Feruchemial power that enhances it, like A-steel and F-iron.

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