What is so terrible about Moelach?

[+Oltux72]

So why did Odium create him? He sure is creepy, but he is actually helpful to the Rosharans. The Diagram even is running a program to use him.
Why help your enemies? Does that mean that he had no choice when he made the Unmade? Were they a package deal? Or did he not know what he would create?

[ScavellTane]

It might be more of a area of denial in Shadesmar.

Edited September 28, 2019 by ScavellTane

[Calderis]

I think it's most likely that Moelach is more of an information gathering tool.

Quote

“I cannot speak,” the cook said, “even to sate a dying demand. There are those who could pull secrets from your soul, and the cost would be the ends of worlds. Sleep now, Soulcaster. This is the most merciful end I could give.”

I think that Moelach pulls information from people as they die, whether that is actual knowledge, or just as fuel for future sight, to somehow aid in Odium’s "Diagram." 

In short, I think the death rattles are a side effect.

[Gilphon]

I mean, Taravangian has shown us that the Death Rattles aren't completely harmless- they passively encourage people to kill each other in order to gain information. But that's a corner case, and probably not what Odium had in mind.

It is worth noting, however, that Odium moved him to Cultivation's perpendicularity recently, presumably to help him control that area. So I think it can be assumed that there's more to Moelach than just the Death Rattles. Like maybe he has a considerably more dangerous effect if you run into him in Shadesmar. 

[Toaster Retribution]

Moelach feels like the Unmade who was last in the line when Odium was giving them Evil Tasks. And so Odium gave him ”make people say creepy rust when they die” since that was what was left. 

Seriously though, what Cal said.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Toaster Retribution

[Aon Tia]

On 9/29/2019 at 0:12 AM, Gilphon said:

I mean, Taravangian has shown us that the Death Rattles aren't completely harmless- they passively encourage people to kill each other in order to gain information. But that's a corner case, and probably not what Odium had in mind.

It is worth noting, however, that Odium moved him to Cultivation's perpendicularity recently, presumably to help him control that area. So I think it can be assumed that there's more to Moelach than just the Death Rattles. Like maybe he has a considerably more dangerous effect if you run into him in Shadesmar. 

i agree. This is pretty much what i was thinking. Odium wants to control the perpendicularity and he sent moelach there. Seems like death rattles might just be a side effect. Also rock's wife says that our home, something is wrong, very wrong. 

now this could be just the death rattles but i doubt that.

His wife left the peaks months ago, there is no war going on there that i can recall which would cause a lot of people dying and giving death rattles. So many that it would amount to people claiming that something is wrong here. 

i think there are some other effects too which might be even more creepy.

It is mentioned in the epigraphs that

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he causes these rattles most commonly at the transition point between realms. when a soul is nearing the tranquiline halls.   

hessi's mythica

 soul nearing the tranquiline halls means when people die but 

"at the transition point between realms" ??

- when a person is dying, his soul transcends the realms, ok 

but when else could it apply?

two possibilities come to mind,

a) during highstorms, when the gemstones are charged, it is due to the fact that three realms are very close, plus now we also know that honor's perpendicularity manifests during the highstorms. So, will that be a time when the transition point is close, so is it possible that at that time, people will be seeing these weird visions of the future during highstorms whenever moelach is near

b)is not cultivations perpendicularity similarly a transition point. so is it possible that irrespective of whether anyone is dying or not, people would be seeing these death rattles all the time now in the peaks coz maelach is near.

also, if it is true, then, what could possibly happen in the peaks during the highstorms? is it even more worse?

Edited September 30, 2019 by The traveller

[Vindo]

Is it confirmed that Odium made the unmade? or did he corrupt existing spren\beings. If they are corrupted, maybe the unmade are still able to rebel against Odium, but with much difficulty. 

[Aon Tia]

They were made and then unmade. Sounds like co-opting something that was originally existing without odium. But I am not aware of any wob regarding this. Except for the red colour is for corruption wob.

[Bigmikey357]

I can see Moelach as an area denial tool for team hatred, but providing visions during highstorms seems unlikely to me. It's in the peaks now but it was centered in Jah Kaved before that and the Shattered Plains (Maps' death Rattle). The only person mentioning highstorm visions was Kaladin and the cause of his seems unrelated to the Unmade.

[Aon Tia]

During highstorms, honors perpendicularity is still unstable and does not stay at a place for a long time may be that’s why normally that connection is not made. 

But at the peaks with a permanent perpendicularlity, may be it will cause rattles during highstorms

[Patrick Star]

On 9/28/2019 at 2:42 PM, Gilphon said:

Odium moved him to Cultivation's perpendicularity recently, presumably to help him control that area. 

He's just standing there, MENACINGLY

[Xardan Ta'Caran]

On 9/30/2019 at 5:50 AM, The traveller said:

is not cultivations perpendicularity similarly a transition point. so is it possible that irrespective of whether anyone is dying or not, people would be seeing these death rattles all the time now in the peaks coz maelach is near.

Something to consider on this front: Rock made it sound like going to this transition point was something of a "rite of passage" for Horneaters. If that is the case, then every single young Horneater is approaching that transition point between realms, which could be causing them to see the future that Honor showed to Dalinar, which could be driving them mad.

But even if that isn't the case, every Horneater can see the spren around them. If Moelach is chilling in their home that by itself may be what is "very wrong" with the peaks. Every Horneater may just be able to see Moelach and it's scaring all of them to various extents.

In either case I do agree that Moelach has to have other purposes, but those are my immediate thoughts on what is going on in the Peaks.

[Aon Tia]

2 hours ago, Xardan Ta'Caran said:

.

But even if that isn't the case, every Horneater can see the spren around them. If Moelach is chilling in their home that by itself may be what is "very wrong" with the peaks. Every Horneater may just be able to see Moelach and it's scaring all of them to various extents.

Wow yes that is a good point, may be they are able to see him lounging around the area. He must be a creepy looking considering how ashertmam looks and thrill with red and black colours 

[Quantus]

2 hours ago, Xardan Ta'Caran said:

But even if that isn't the case, every Horneater can see the spren around them. If Moelach is chilling in their home that by itself may be what is "very wrong" with the peaks. Every Horneater may just be able to see Moelach and it's scaring all of them to various extents.

That is incorrect.  Rock can, and it's not unheard-of in horneater society, but not all of them have the ability. The horneaters call those with the ability alaii'iku

[Xardan Ta'Caran]

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

That is incorrect.  Rock can, and it's not unheard-of in horneater society, but not all of them have the ability. The horneaters call those with the ability alaii'iku

My mistake @Quantus. You are absolutely correct. But the point still stands. At least a few of them could see all spren and I think that would include most of their leaders (not positive, but it keeps hinting that Rock was somewhat of a leader in the Peaks). Perhaps the leaders seeing Moelach is what is causing the issue. They consider spren gods, so if Moelach were to tell them to attack another peak, they would likely listen. But this is all conjecture anyway. I could be horribly off base. lol.

[Quantus]

23 minutes ago, Xardan Ta'Caran said:

My mistake @Quantus. You are absolutely correct. But the point still stands. At least a few of them could see all spren and I think that would include most of their leaders (not positive, but it keeps hinting that Rock was somewhat of a leader in the Peaks). Perhaps the leaders seeing Moelach is what is causing the issue. They consider spren gods, so if Moelach were to tell them to attack another peak, they would likely listen. But this is all conjecture anyway. I could be horribly off base. lol.

That's fair, and I didnt mean challenge your Moelach point.  I was originally under the same impression that you were, that Rock was typical in hsi ability, and was surprised relatively recently when I learn otherwise.  

[Xardan Ta'Caran]

25 minutes ago, Quantus said:

That's fair, and I didnt mean challenge your Moelach point.  I was originally under the same impression that you were, that Rock was typical in hsi ability, and was surprised relatively recently when I learn otherwise.  

No worries sir! I didn't actually take it as a challenge to the point. I didn't make that very clear before, but I truly appreciate the clarification of the facts. I hate it when I mess stuff like that up. ;-) 

[Karger]

On 9/30/2019 at 7:50 AM, The traveller said:

a) during highstorms, when the gemstones are charged, it is due to the fact that three realms are very close, plus now we also know that honor's perpendicularity manifests during the highstorms. So, will that be a time when the transition point is close, so is it possible that at that time, people will be seeing these weird visions of the future during highstorms whenever moelach is near

We actually see Kaladin do this both in WoK when he sees Emul and in OB when he sees that he needs to get to Dalinar.

On 9/30/2019 at 9:41 PM, Vindo said:

Is it confirmed that Odium made the unmade? or did he corrupt existing spren\beings. If they are corrupted, maybe the unmade are still able to rebel against Odium, but with much difficulty. 

Sja-anat says that they were made then unmade but their origins are still mysterious.  Still the things the thrill does and that she does and Yalig-nar does are all quite specific and quite Odiumy.  So I would hazard a guess and say that Odium shaped them somehow.

On 10/2/2019 at 11:03 AM, Xardan Ta'Caran said:

Something to consider on this front: Rock made it sound like going to this transition point was something of a "rite of passage" for Horneaters. If that is the case, then every single young Horneater is approaching that transition point between realms, which could be causing them to see the future that Honor showed to Dalinar, which could be driving them mad.

Rock said nothing of the sort.  He says that the pools are important and that going into one can give you visions of shadesmar.  Also when Kaladin asked if going into the pool gave him his spren seeing abilities Rock RAFOed him.

 

My personal theory is that Moelach stops other Shards from getting info on Odium by looking into the spiritual realm.  He also may do some intelligence gathering as has been suggested(pulling information from the dead and dying).

[dvoraen]

On 9/28/2019 at 0:23 AM, Oltux72 said:

So why did Odium create him? He sure is creepy, but he is actually helpful to the Rosharans. The Diagram even is running a program to use him.
Why help your enemies? Does that mean that he had no choice when he made the Unmade? Were they a package deal? Or did he not know what he would create?

I'm becoming increasingly suspicious myself that Moelach's primary purpose is to interfere with Realmatic transition, thereby making it very dangerous to project oneself into Shadesmar, Soulcast, and/or use Transportation if he should be nearby.  When I say interfere with transition, I mean I think he consumes the (I'm not sure what to call it) inertia that's involved in changing Realms, thus making him very suited for guarding a Perpendicularity.

I do agree with @Calderis that the Death Rattles lean closer to a side-effect of what it is Moelach actually does.  If we can trust the Diagram, all of the Unmade have relevance to precognition, but I think Moelach stands out because he is the one who offers it up to anyone instead of being the sole beneficiary of that precognition.  "This seems common of the less self-aware spren," per Mythica.  Which, if true, raises interesting implications for the sapient Unmade in particular.

 

EDIT - One other thing I want to add is that I think being parked at Cultivation's Perpendicularity is going to have some very nasty developments transpiring with the Horneaters.  That is, I would not be surprised if we find out that many of them become schizophrenic and/or develop disassociatve identity disorder.  I'm a little suspicious that Moelach's influence will lead to people getting bits and pieces of those visions of the future on account of the Perpendicularity's presence causing a bit of bleedover from the Unmade, and over time that's going to have some pretty gnarly effects on people.

Edited October 5, 2019 by dvoraen

[Aon Tia]

Wow creepy horror movie is playing around in the peaks! I can not wait Brandon to take us to the peaks in SA4. I think we have the potential to top the kholinar oathgate version here. 

@dvoraen if living at the peaks is giving hot eaters schizophrenia then imagine shallan is anyway not very stable minded to begin with!!

 

[Honorless]

Moelach is described as scratching the borders between the Realms:

Quote

Moelach is close. I can hear his wheezing, his scratching, his scraping at time like a rat breaking through walls

The Death Rattles are just a side effect not his primary function:

Quote

There is one you will watch. Though all of them have some relevance to precognition, Moelach is one of the most powerful in this regard. His touch seeps into a soul as it breaks apart from the body, creating manifestations powered by the spark of death itself.

Quote

Moelach was said to grant visions of the future at different times—but most commonly at the transition point between realms. When a soul was nearing the Tranquiline Halls.

So, yeah, definitely doing something more than just granting visions of possible futures. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Honorless
edited for clarity

[ScavellTane]

I'm surprised Moelach never found his way to Cultivations perpendicularity, since its presumably stationery.

[Aon Tia]

It is possible that he normally prefers areas with high density population, more population more death to cause rattles.

Edited December 4, 2019 by The traveller

[Quantus]

6 hours ago, ScavellTane said:

I'm surprised Moelach never found his way to Cultivations perpendicularity, since its presumably stationery.

I think it makes sense in some ways.  Prior to the Everstorm all of Odiums forces seems to be keeping relatively low profiles.  I dont think settling on her Perpendicularity would be as easy as it had been in other places; at the very least it would have attracted her direct attention before Odium was ready for war, and it might have require the active Siege that the Voidspren are holding there as of OB.   Now they are much bolder because they have things like the Everstorm, Voidlight, The Fused, and at least two generations of Voidspren, not to mention Odium himself manifesting and directly the forces.

[Karger]

On 12/4/2019 at 2:07 AM, ScavellTane said:

I'm surprised Moelach never found his way to Cultivations perpendicularity, since its presumably stationery.

He hibernates for long periods according to Mr. T.  Don't ask me why I really don't know.