Could you use hemalurgy without becoming a puppet ?

[Friendshipspren]

So an Inquisitor can very well become a fullborn even if he/she  was born a common human. The downside of course Is that then u would be liable to external control and loss of identity and will ,by  a gang of soothers or duralumin / nicroburst enhanced Mistborn or by a shard. 

The more spikes u have , the easier is it to lose control.

But is that really unavoidable. Suppose u were to grant a Inquisitor spikes bestowing allomantic and feruchemical aluminum , electrum and duralumin. 

This would allow said Inquisitor to compound identity , determination and connection.

Identity and determination alone could be enough to shake off any external influence but perhaps connection to one self , one's own goals and ideas could boost ur emotional defense.

So could my theory work ? Say Marsh decided to go rogue, say he thought Harmony was doing something very stupid or thought Harmony was too tied up.  He could creat new spikes by killing 3 mistings and 3 ferrings . He has done way worse , true he was being governed by Ruin then but he knows about sacrifices required for the greater good , that's how he ended up in the steel ministry in the first place and after the events of the Catecandre I think it will be somewhat less squeamish about the cost , esp if it meant greater prosperity could be created or something like that. 

I mean Marsh could then single handedly wipe out the Set , something harmony can't do due to his intent and the kandra can't do due to being subservient to harmony and being anti violent to a fault , not to mention they are considerably weaker compared to a mistborn or fullborn 

Does Marsh have the knowledge as to the spike placement ? 

Would having so many spikes , esp ones dealing with spiritual aspects warp ur soul and the entire process end up being deleterious ? 

If so could it be healed by additional gold spikes and gold compounding ?

Or will the entire concept not work at all ? Like maybe the cracks in the spirit web can't be protected no matter how much u compound ?

Or maybe u would several spikes compounding determination constantly to overcome it ? 

Any thoughts ? 

Edited September 25, 2019 by PrinceGenocide
A little polishing

[Karger]

12 minutes ago, PrinceGenocide said:

So could my theory work ? Say Marsh decided to go rogue, say he thought Harmony was doing something very stupid or thought Harmony was too tied up.  He could creat new spikes by killing 3 mistings and 3 ferrings . He has done way worse , true he was being governed by Ruin then but he knows about sacrifices required for the greater good , that's how he ended up in the steel ministry in the first place and after the events of the Catecandre I think it will be somewhat less squeamish about the cost , esp if it meant greater prosperity could be created or something like that. 

Harmony refuses to mind control people under most situations.

13 minutes ago, PrinceGenocide said:

If so could it be healed by additional gold spikes and gold compounding ?

Or will the entire concept not work at all ? Like maybe the cracks in the spirit web can't be protected no matter how much u compound ?

Or maybe u would several spikes compounding determination constantly to overcome it ? 

Any thoughts ? 

Compounding Identity would certainly help with soothing but the gaps would still exist.  I am not sure that you can get rid of the flaw that easily.

[+robardin]

If you're proposing that infinite Determination, Connection, and Identity could allow a massively spiked creature like the Marshquisitor to resist external control through the "hemalurgical flaw", I am not so sure.

When Vin did it in Fadrex City, she needed to draw on the power of Preservation by using the mists, as she was uniquely able to do. Once we're talking using the Ascendant power level of a Shard, as "mist-fueled Allomancy" appears to be, I think that trumps a lot of barriers.

As to whether compounded Determination would make Marsh more able to resist "max mortal Allomancer" Soothing from Elend-with-duralumin or an Era 2 Soother aided by a Nicroburst, that's an interesting question, but one we won't ever really know for sure. For my money, if Vin needed to use the mists to Push through to the Marshquisitor, then I don't think even Elend+duralumin could have managed it, any more than he could have Ironpulled the bracers off of TLR, had he been there. And definitely not a Nicroburst-aided Era 2 Soother, which I would think would still be weaker than Elend burning duralumin and brass.

As for the Marshquisitor ever resisting Harmony's direct control, forget about it. Hemalurgy is "his power", as it was Ruin's. The only thing holding Harmony back from literally living through Marsh is that he doesn't want to, both because he was friends with Marsh in life, and because his Intent now requires him to allow Marsh free agency.

A scenario where Marsh single-handedly decides to go on a Compounding-enabled rampage is another interesting proposal. How would Harmony react to that? For someone to skew that far to the Ruin side, might he act to intervene?

The kandra that Wax talked to in Shadows of Self (VenDell) seemed to imply that Harmony would have stopped Paalm doing what she did via direct control if he could have, except that she'd pulled a spike out, and was in fact invisible to him because it turned out that her one remaining spike was of a metal "not known to Harmony" and likely from another god.

But if it turns out the Set and its operatives are actually advancing that red mist of encroachment around Scadrial that Harmony is working to defeat as agents of another Shard (Autonomy being Suspect #1 right now), perhaps letting Marsh slip off the chain would be exactly what he'd allow. As long as He didn't put Marsh up to it in the first place, or have done some direct act to cause it to happen, he could feel that Marsh is going about doing something of his own accord.

[Calderis]

"compounding Identity" would probably help in most things you want to resist, but it may not be possible. 

Even if it is, the main issue with Hemalurgy is that once you break the threshold for control, you're open to control from any entity with the ability to influence in the correct ways. The only people we know that could manage it so far are emotional Allomancers, but any of the Shards could if they were willing and their intent allows it. 

I highly doubt your going to overcome the direct influence of a Shard easily or for a long period of time. Marsh didn't even do that. He just played the tame pet long enough for a single moment of defiance, which was immediately clamped down.