oathbringer Awakening Hoid

[Aon Tia]

Quote from epilogue 

 He took the rags and cord he’d worked with earlier, forming them into the shape of a doll

He raised the doll to his lips, then whispered a choice set of words. When he set it down, it started to walk on its own.

is he awakening here?

[Elegy]

Yes, it's confirmed to be Awakening:

Quote

Questioner

At the end, Wit, with the little girl and the doll and bring the doll to life, it reminded me of Warbreaker.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, he was using Breath for that. He was using Breath he had gotten from somewhere, I'll say, but it was actually the other world's magic system. Vivenna was using them, too, in Oathbringer. When you see her fighting with her cloak. That's an actual fighting style people would do; her cloak's doing some extra stuff.

The Great American Read: Other Worlds with Brandon Sanderson (Oct. 25, 2018)

 

[Paalm Tree]

There's also the part when he talks to Kaladin and he is talks about how perfect pitch makes making music easier than it had been. Meaning that he at least at the second heightening.

[Aon Tia]

1 hour ago, Paalm Tree said:

There's also the part when he talks to Kaladin and he is talks about how perfect pitch makes making music easier than it had been. Meaning that he at least at the second heightening.

Wow totally missed that !! 

[Gilphon]

Further 'Hoid-has-all-the-powers' tidbits: 

• When he visits Shallan during her childhood, he sprinkled something into his tea before drinking it, and then Shallan calmed down very quickly. Like how certain people on Scadrial do things.
• When Shallan runs into him in Kholinar, he has a vial of White Sand with him that moves towards Shallan and partially turns black when she starts making illusions. 
• When telling stories, we see him manipulating sand and smoke in ways that don't seem natural. 

[RShara]

1 minute ago, Gilphon said:

When Shallan runs into him in Kholinar, he has a vial of White Sand with him that moves towards Shallan and partially turns black when she starts making illusions. 

Sorry, that's a little backward. The jar of sand was in his pack, and didn't move. And the jar was mostly black, but the side toward Shallan was white, because it absorbed some of her stormlight and got charged up.

1 minute ago, Gilphon said:

When telling stories, we see him manipulating sand and smoke in ways that don't seem natural. 

Smoke at least, yes. It's almost certainly Yolish Lightweaving that he's using there. We've never seen him use sand mastery that I can identify.

[Aon Tia]

Anytime he is seen doing any sel related magic? 

I mean he did steal that moon sceptre once. Wonder what was the relevance there?

[Calderis]

Sel's magic isn't usable of of Sel, so even if he did manage it... 

[Gilphon]

As far as we know, his attempts to hack his way into the Selish magic systems have been unsuccessful so far- it seems he's having trouble getting around how region-locked they are.

But he does appear to be trying; the Moon Spectre is probably a piece of the puzzle, and the 10th anniversary version of Elantris has a scene that implies he was trying to make himself into an Elantrian. 

I imagine that recent innovations on Scadrial are of interest to him for this purpose, if he indeed still hasn't found another solution yet. 

1 hour ago, RShara said:

We've never seen him use sand mastery that I can identify.

He uses sand for storytelling purposes in Warbreaker, in pretty sophisticated ways. It might be totally mundane, or he might just be trying to keep his sand mastery subtle enough to avoid drawing attention. 

[RShara]

1 hour ago, Gilphon said:

He uses sand for storytelling purposes in Warbreaker, in pretty sophisticated ways. It might be totally mundane, or he might just be trying to keep his sand mastery subtle enough to avoid drawing attention. 

 

Warbreaker spoilers. (Maybe this thread should be moved to Cosmere?)

Spoiler

 

He really doesn't. All he does in Warbreaker is literally throw stuff up in the air, and let it all fall down again, plus a little bit of what sounds like simple sleight of hand. He throws sand up , and it went from black to white (indicating he charged it up) as it fell down. That's all.

Quote

“Ah,” the man said, reaching into a pocket. He pulled out a handful of sand and began to rub it between his fingers, letting it drop in a soft stream toward the ground, its grains blown slightly in the wind. “Her Majesty wishes one of the deep stories, from long before. A story before time began?”

“I wish to know the origins of the Hallandren God Kings.”

“Then we begin in the distant haze,” the storyteller said, bringing up another hand, letting powdery black sand drop from it, mixing with the sand that fell from the first hand. As Siri watched, the black sand turned white, and she cocked her head, smiling at the display.

Quote

“Yes, Your Majesty,” Hoid said, bringing out a handful of golden dust, letting it fall before him.

...

“Ah,” Hoid said, switching back to sand with his left hand.

...

With as much flair as possible, Siri thought, watching him reach into yet another pocket and pull free a handful of small bits of grass and earth. He let bits fall slowly between his fingers.

This isn't directed at you personally, btw. I'm just randomly expressing puzzlement here:

For some reason, a lot of people have this concept of Hoid doing some complicated things with sand in Warbreaker, when literally all he does is throw things up into the air, lets them fall down again, and produce a couple of bursts of flame (which can be explained with flash powder and the like). It's really weird and I see it all the time. I wonder why?

 

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by RShara

[Aon Tia]

1 hour ago, RShara said:

 

Warbreaker spoilers. (Maybe this thread should be moved to Cosmere?)

yup i was wondering that myself. thanx for shifting it to Cosmere 

i do wonder though how he could have managed to learn Sand Mastery... it can be learned but it takes time, probably years to master it in any significant way. 

moreover, how could he have convinced any of the mastrells to teach him? the impression i got was that sand masters were a very closed up group. they probably all know

each other very well. how can a stranger even enter their ranks, or without doing so, learn it?

 

[RShara]

3 minutes ago, The traveller said:

yup i was wondering that myself. thanx for shifting it to Cosmere 

i do wonder though how he could have managed to learn Sand Mastery... it can be learned but it takes time, probably years to master it in any significant way. 

moreover, how could he have convinced any of the mastrells to teach him? the impression i got was that sand masters were a very closed up group. they probably all know

each other very well. how can a stranger even enter their ranks, or without doing so, learn it?

 

I think the bits I quoted show that he does not use sand mastery at any point.

[Gilphon]

6 minutes ago, The traveller said:

i do wonder though how he could have managed to learn Sand Mastery... it can be learned but it takes time, probably years to master it in any significant way. 

moreover, how could he have convinced any of the mastrells to teach him? the impression i got was that sand masters were a very closed up group. they probably all know

each other very well. how can a stranger even enter their ranks, or without doing so, learn it?

I mean, the guy's immortal and has been around for thousands of years, I don't think he's gonna balk at sinking a decade or two into acquiring a new skill. Also:

White Sand Vol.3 Spoilers:

Spoiler

They used to be very closed up, but Kenton did his best to change that, allowing Khriss to take the test, and letting her take a few barrels of sand back to Nightside to see if they can figure out a way to get it to work over there, and a mysterious hooded minstrel just so happens to be on the same boat. 

So getting one's foot in the door isn't as hard as it used to be, and Hoid could very well have found a way to bypass the Mastrells entirely. 

But that said, we still don't know exactly what allows one to be able to use Sand Mastery in the first place, aside with from the fact that not everyone can do it. So it's possible that Hoid couldn't get anywhere with learning it, and decided that grabbing some sand that can detect and store Investiture was good enough. 

 

[RShara]

1 minute ago, Gilphon said:

I mean, the guy's immortal and has been around for thousands of years, I don't think he's gonna balk at sinking a decade or two into acquiring a new skill. Also:

White Sand Vol.3 Spoilers:

  Hide contents

They used to be very closed up, but Kenton did his best to change that, allowing Khriss to take the test, and letting her take a few barrels of sand back to Nightside to see if they can figure out a way to get it to work over there, and a mysterious hooded minstrel just so happens to be on the same boat. 

So getting one's foot in the door isn't as hard as it used to be, and Hoid could very well have found a way to bypass the Mastrells entirely. 

But that said, we still don't know exactly what allows one to be able to use Sand Mastery in the first place, aside with from the fact that not everyone can do it. So it's possible that Hoid couldn't get anywhere with learning it, and decided that grabbing some sand that can detect and store Investiture was good enough. 

 

Yes, it's possible Hoid has sand mastery. What I'm saying is, we have never seen him use it or exhibit any signs of using it.

[Aon Tia]

14 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

I mean, the guy's immortal and has been around for thousands of years, I don't think he's gonna balk at sinking a decade or two into acquiring a new skill. Also:

White Sand Vol.3 Spoilers:

  Hide contents

But that said, we still don't know exactly what allows one to be able to use Sand Mastery in the first place, aside with from the fact that not everyone can do it. So it's possible that Hoid couldn't get anywhere with learning it, and decided that grabbing some sand that can detect and store Investiture was good enough. 

 

yes i think you have a lot of point here. the sand mastery may be not so much but the sand itself, may be has some interesting uses...

and where is this bit about white sand vol 3? is it in the prose version? i totally missed any mysterious hooded minstrel !!

[Harold]

Can you use the investiture from the white sand in other ways or is it just sand mastery?

My thinking being, if Hoid's sand is being charged by various investiture, how is that being spent to make his vial of sand turn black again after being charged in these two instances we've read about?

(It's not a given these are the same vials of sand of course, he could easily have multiples, but it would be strange to only have 1 time use vials of sand)

[Elegy]

4 minutes ago, Harold said:

Can you use the investiture from the white sand in other ways or is it just sand mastery?

It can be very useful for non-Sand Masters:

Quote

Questioner

Mraize's Basement Emporium. Is that more like a trophy room or a "In case of emergencies" room?

Multiple people

Or a bank vault?

Or a weapon's vault?

Or both?

Brandon Sanderson

So, yes...

I mean, he can't use the Aether, right? ...He can't use the Aether, he doesn't have an Aether. But the sand, the sand does stuff. So a handful of sand is a really useful amount of sand to have if you're not a sandmaster. Because sand reacts to Investiture. So if you let it fade and you take it somewhere, as soon as Investiture goes kinetic, it'll turn white again. So you'll be able to use it to tell who's using Inve-- it works just like a Seeker, like bronze pulses...

So having white sand, having sand around is really good. If you can keep the little beasties that are growing on the sand around, they will react to basically the Investiture equivalent of radiation. So that's handy.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

[Harold]

2 minutes ago, Elegy said:

It can be very useful for non-Sand Masters

Ah so it can fade over time as it loses investiture. Makes sense. Thanks!

[Aon Tia]

So stormlight can make it bright? If u leave it outside in a vial, does it get charged? But does hoid really need this sand to tell if someone is invested. 

He is connected to cognitive, he can probably see spren following kaladin, shallan etc

but did he not see cryptics around elhokar? Hoid knew he is not paranoid but did not help him. Probably made fun of him.