The Stormfather is super sketchy

[Storyspren]

The Stormfather, why do people trust him?

He doesn’t volunteer useful information. 

He doesn’t believe Tanavast’s visions are even useful. Wouldn’t have even given them to Dalinar except Honor basically forced him to.

He doesn’t want to be summoned as a shard blade.

He discourages Dalinar from exploring supposedly useless or unauthorized parts of the visions.

Claims not to have seen Odium/Odium’s champion in that one vision but how is that possible?

Brought an extra high storm about to mercy kill all the humans, like some crazy herald or something.

He is so sketchy, I sometimes wonder if he is working for Odium.

 

 

[Calderis]

There's a lot of complicated reasons for the Stormfather being the way that he is. 

59 minutes ago, Storyspren said:

He doesn’t volunteer useful information. 

It's not so much that he doesn't in my mind in so much as he can't. As a spren he's very much bound by his nature, and he's very much both an Honor spren, and bound by certain rules... But also very much not human and not exactly aware of what people would find "useful." 

1 hour ago, Storyspren said:

He doesn’t believe Tanavast’s visions are even useful. Wouldn’t have even given them to Dalinar except Honor basically forced him to.

Can you really blame him? Honor was a Shard and he died to Odium. The Radiants killed the majority of the spren at the Recreance, and Pattern implies he's one of the few "survivors" of that. Syl says he's "broken." 

1 hour ago, Storyspren said:

He doesn’t want to be summoned as a shard blade.

This isn't just him being stubborn. It's the rules again. Bondsmiths don't get blades. 

1 hour ago, Storyspren said:

He discourages Dalinar from exploring supposedly useless or unauthorized parts of the visions.

 

1 hour ago, Storyspren said:

Claims not to have seen Odium/Odium’s champion in that one vision but how is that possible?

He didn't build the visions and doesn't necessarily have to know everything that is in them, anymore than he sees everything that the storm passes. He believes that Honor built them for a purpose, with a set narrative, which is true. Why would there be things outside that narrative? I'm still not convinced that the "champion" was intentionally put there by Honor considering Dalinar recognized the eyes, and Honor's futuresight was crem. 

1 hour ago, Storyspren said:

Brought an extra high storm about to mercy kill all the humans, like some crazy herald or something.

Not human thinking. Thinks the entire thing is pointless since if Honor died there's no way the piddly humans can do anything. Kinda crazy. And bound by rules... Which is why he says this. 

Quote

I BRING YOU A STORM OF CLEANSING. IT WILL CARRY AWAY YOUR CORPSES. THIS IS ALL I CAN DO.

"This is all I can do" 

The Stormfather's a mess, but he contains the Cognitive Shadow of Honor's Vessel, and he has stood up to Odium at every turn, to the point of whimpering like a child in pain. He's not all there, but he's not an enemy. 

[Honorless]

He does seem super sketchy, doesn't he? What are those Stormstriders? Is he that helpless in stopping the Voidspren from bonding under his very nose? He handed out the visions, following the letter of the law but not the intent. Bringing the Highstorm in the face of the Everstorm...

But post-Oathbringer, as he told Dalinar of the Herald's burden it became more understandable. He doesn't understand things without a Bond. Somehow even less than other Nahel Bond capable spren.

His stinginess with information is understandable, the Sibling was hurt before, he distrusted humans post-Recreance, his understanding isn't quite human so he couldn't prioritize

As for trust, he is the linchpin of their ecosystem, he deposits crem and distributes Stormlight, and brings rain. He is vital for life on Roshar. He has been associated directly with Honor for a long time too, especially in Vorinism.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Honorless
Americanized spelling of Honour

[Karger]

3 hours ago, Honorless said:

What are those Stormstriders

Dalinar has not asked.

3 hours ago, Honorless said:

Is he that helpless in stopping the Voidspren from bonding under his very nose

Yes.  I would spare you if I could.

3 hours ago, Honorless said:

He handed out the visions, following the letter of the law but not the intent

He really does not get human intents especially when he is unbonded.

3 hours ago, Honorless said:

Bringing the Highstorm in the face of the Everstorm...

See @Calderis

I know you agree I just wanted all of these in context.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Ookla the Prolific

[Storyspren]

For that matter, honor withholding the key information about the surges destroying the last planet seems... less than honorable. Is it honorable to enter into a deal with information THAT incomplete?

All these “answers” just sound like excuses to manipulate humans and parshmen in a game of cosmic checkers. 

 

[Agent34]

Well that all depends on what your view of honour is, does it not? The Shard Honor seems much more about oaths and bonds and binding than any kind of societal connotations like truth or bravery.

With all due respect it sounds like you already have your mind made up on the Stormfather being a "bad guy".

[+Bliev]

Just like the Nightwatcher, the Stormfather doesn’t understand humanity. Syl learned via her bond. The godspren may be splinters of shards, but they are still spren. How do you explain the minutia of humanity to the cognitive essence of a storm implanted with the memories of a god? The Stormfather is not a person imbued with the petty grievances and manipulative tendencies of mortal humans. How should he know what information is pertinent beyond that which he’s been honor bound to deliver?

[Honorless]

1 hour ago, Bliev said:

Just like the Nightwatcher, the Stormfather doesn’t understand humanity. Syl learned via her bond. The godspren may be splinters of shards, but they are still spren. How do you explain the minutia of humanity to the cognitive essence of a storm implanted with the memories of a god? The Stormfather is not a person imbued with the petty grievances and manipulative tendencies of mortal humans. How should he know what information is pertinent beyond that which he’s been honor bound to deliver?

His pettiness comes from his lack of understanding and his grievances are that of the spren rather than from men.

And I think, the way he said he's changed. It's more than just the Bond. Becoming a Cognitive Shadow must've changed him, in the same way that Cultivation is trying to change The Nightwatcher organically.

[+Bliev]

1 minute ago, Honorless said:

His pettiness comes from his lack of understanding and his grievances are that of the spren rather than from men.

And I think, the way he said he's changed. It's more than just the Bond. Becoming a Cognitive Shadow must've changed him, in the same way that Cultivation is trying to change The Nightwatcher organically.

I think that’s one of the great parts about this book: making you connect with characters that seem human in their voices but are distinctly inhuman in their reactions. Forces you to check yourself when taking in the world that’s being built. Maybe that’s just me though. ;-)

[Honorless]

2 hours ago, Agent34 said:

Well that all depends on what your view of honour is, does it not? The Shard Honor seems much more about oaths and bonds and binding than any kind of societal connotations like truth or bravery.

With all due respect it sounds like you already have your mind made up on the Stormfather being a "bad guy".

I disagree. The Ideals of the Knights Radiant display quite well the complexity of Honor's Intent in action.

And it seems the Shardic Intents are meant to be that way

Quote

Questioner

Shards. We started with fairly obvious ones, magic wise. Trying to keep this spoiler free, so: Ruin, Preservation, this kind of thing. Then we get the weird ones. Why do we have Shards that can only exist in the mind of a sentient creature? ...Like the concept of Honor can only be done when it's carried out, essentially, by a sentient creature.

Brandon Sanderson

So when I split Adonalsium I said, "I'm going to take aspects of Adonalsium's nature." And this involves personality to me. So the Shattering of Adonalsium was primal forces attached to certain aspects of personality. And so I view every one of them this way. And when I wrote Mistborn we had Ruin and Preservation. They are the primal forces of entropy and whatever you call the opposite, staying-the-same-ism-y. Like, you've got these two contrasts, between things changing and things not changing. And then humans do have a part, there's a personality. Ruin is a charged term for something that actually is the way that life exists. And Preservation is a charged term for stasis, for staying the same. And those are the personality aspects, and the way they are viewed by people and by the entity that was Adonalsium.

So I view this for all of them. Like, Honor is the sense of being bound by rules, even when those rules, you wouldn't have to be bound by. And there's this sense that that is noble, that's the honor aspect to it, but there's also something not honorable about Honor if taken from the other direction. So a lot of them do kind of have this both-- cultural component, I would say, that is trying to represent something that is also natural. And not all of them are gonna have a 100% balance between those two things, I would say, because there's only so many fundamental laws of the universe that I can ascribe personalities to in that way. 

So I find Honor very interesting, but I find Autonomy a very interesting one for the exact same reason. What does autonomy mean? We attach a lot to it, but what is the actual, if you get rid of the charged terms, what does it mean? And this is where you end up with things like Odium claiming "I am all emotion." Rather than-- But then there's a charged term for it that is associated with this Shard. I'm not going to tell you whether he's right or not, but he has an argument. 

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)