UNITE THEM

[Aon Tia]

hey guys,

we have all noticed that how UNITE THEM is a running theme with Dalinar throughout the books 

so far, we have Dalinar interpret this in different ways :

• unite all of Alethkar, atleast all the highprinces, not just in name but actually
• then he expanded it to unite all of humanity, all nations in one alliance
• and then, he united all three realms together

what do you think could be his next interpretations of UNITE THEM?

one that comes to mind is unite humans and singers against Odium. i think it may be the running theme for him in SA4

any ideas?

[Karger]

Possible.  We don't even know for certain where the "Unite Them" impulse is coming from.

[1stBondsmith]

I have been thinking that it would be uniting the Heralds to the Unmade...and a final step, unite Roshar souls with Braise Inhabitants. Possibly even those from "The Tranquilan Halls" who might be left.

[Aluminum]

Unite all the planets in the system. And then unite all the solar systems in the cosmere. And then unite all of Brandon sandersons worlds. And then unite all literature. And then unite the fiction and real worlds. That's the entire plot of the SA. Calling it now

[Lidolas]

1 hour ago, Aluminum said:

Unite all the planets in the system. And then unite all the solar systems in the cosmere. And then unite all of Brandon sandersons worlds. And then unite all literature. And then unite the fiction and real worlds. That's the entire plot of the SA. Calling it now

And here I was thinking small.  I was going to say he needs to unite the 16 Shards and bring Adonalsium back.

[Ripheus23]

Actually Dalinar is dalyslexic so it's really UNTIE THEM.

[Aon Tia]

On 9/20/2019 at 11:34 PM, Lidolas said:

And here I was thinking small.  I was going to say he needs to unite the 16 Shards and bring Adonalsium back.

Well I was even smaller. Like uniting honors splinters unite a shard again 

On 9/20/2019 at 7:17 PM, Karger said:

Possible.  We don't even know for certain where the "Unite Them" impulse is coming from.

Possibly from the shard remnants itself. especially the largest remnant that has merged with stormfather 

Honour was dying and unite them is literally his last words. He knows he is going to splinter! 

I wonder if the task of stormfather was not only to find a bondsmith but to find a successor vessel. 

the warm light he keeps seeing and the warmth he keeps feeling hmm.. now that’s really weird stuff. Where is this coming from? Honor? Adonalsium?

[Karger]

9 hours ago, The traveller said:

Possibly from the shard remnants itself. especially the largest remnant that has merged with stormfather 

Honour was dying and unite them is literally his last words. He knows he is going to splinter! 

I wonder if the task of stormfather was not only to find a bondsmith but to find a successor vessel. 

the warm light he keeps seeing and the warmth he keeps feeling hmm.. now that’s really weird stuff. Where is this coming from? Honor? Adonalsium?

Also possible.

[Aon Tia]

34 minutes ago, Karger said:

Also possible.

Thanx 

[The Wanderer]

I think it might be all the splinters of Honor left on Roshar, as what they are saying is similar to what the fragments of statue in Thaylenah were saying:

Quote

Unite us. Please.

might just be me, but both are voices only Dalinar can hear, and with the statue he was the only one who could have put it back together, so maybe the same is with the Splinters of Honor.

[Aon Tia]

23 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

I think it might be all the splinters of Honor left on Roshar, as what they are saying is similar to what the fragments of statue in Thaylenah were saying:

might just be me, but both are voices only Dalinar can hear, and with the statue he was the only one who could have put it back together, so maybe the same is with the Splinters of Honor.

Yes exactly. It seems like the same to me. Just like in twok with the visions and honors message,  he is hearing the splintered shard and applying their “unite them” in his own context and finding new ways to interpret it. 

[+robardin]

On 9/20/2019 at 2:04 PM, Lidolas said:

And here I was thinking small.  I was going to say he needs to unite the 16 Shards and bring Adonalsium back.

But if Dalinar Ascends to become Honor, poor Navani will be left in the lurch!

[Zapata]

18 minutes ago, robardin said:

But if Dalinar Ascends to become Honor, poor Navani will be left in the lurch!

Dalinar himself does not have to ascend. He could "unite" Honor's splinters and give them to someone else or even give them to the Stormfather, which might make the Stormfather like (Mistborn: Secret History spoilers)

Spoiler

Kelsier taking up Preservation after Leras died.

 

[Karger]

39 minutes ago, robardin said:

But if Dalinar Ascends to become Honor, poor Navani will be left in the lurch!

This is why he will give them to Kaladin.  So that Kaladin can bemoan all of the broken oaths.  After all.  Kaladin's suffering must increase exponentially.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Karger

[Zapata]

6 minutes ago, Karger said:

This is why he will give them to Kaladin.  So that Kaladin can bemoan all of the broken oaths.  After all.  Kaladin's suffering must increase exponentially.

But what, then, about Syl? Kaladin wouldn't abandon her.

[Karger]

Just now, Bearer of Agonies said:

But what, then, about Syl? Kaladin wouldn't abandon her.

Syl will become part of him.  This is how he will fuse with Honor.

[Zapata]

Just now, Karger said:

Syl will become part of him.  This is how he will fuse with Honor.

actually, I like that. don't spren and their Radiants start becoming "one" anyway? like, the spren fills cracks in their Radiant's spiritweb?

[Aon Tia]

2 hours ago, Karger said:

This is why he will give them to Kaladin.  So that Kaladin can bemoan all of the broken oaths.  After all.  Kaladin's suffering must increase exponentially.

And that is why kaladin must remain single. Because he must care for all humanity and not just one lucky girl

[Vindo]

Can't whoever takes up Honour make a splinter of themselves.

[Aon Tia]

41 minutes ago, Vindo said:

Can't whoever takes up Honour make a splinter of themselves.

And a splinter would be a spren is it not? Is not that what syl is? A very tiny tiny splinter? 

[Aon Tia]

3 hours ago, Karger said:

This is why he will give them to Kaladin. 

I think it might happen. There is a death rattle in twok 

“He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear! ”

— Collected on Vevahach 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a prostitute of unknown background.^[20]

 

the tower: urithiru

crown: godhood may be 

and kaladin always has the spear 

so all three become his. I guess..

 

but it I thoroughly dislike the idea because that suggests that dalinar .... oh no...

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by The traveller

[+TheFoxQR]

Controversial, but I think it means the Honorblades.

The Honorblades were the mark of the Oathpact. The model of speaking Oaths to get access to Radiance and Shards stemmed from the Honorblades. The Oathpact was the Heralds' collective Oath. When they were abandoned, and the Heralds' refused to go to Braize, the Oathpact was weakened. Abandoning the Oathpact at the end of Aharietam was, in a sense, the Heraldic Recreance. Or the Recreance was a Knight Radiant version of what the Heralds did at Aharietam.

And one has to ask - how would the Heralds have kept their Oath? How would they have returned to Braize? It doesn't seem too farfetched to think that the Honorblades also served that purpose - to allow the remaining Heralds to retake or keep their Oath at the end of a desolation, and consequently served as a means to return to Braize. And since all the Honorblades were originally the mark of one Oath, it doesn't seem infeasible to think that uniting them into one place together, with 10 people bonded to them, and them collectively (re)swearing the original Oath would renew the Oathpact and stop the desolation.

Edited September 24, 2019 by TheFoxQR

[Aon Tia]

2 hours ago, TheFoxQR said:

Controversial, but I think it means the Honorblades.

And one has to ask - how would the Heralds have kept their Oath? How would they have returned to Braize? It doesn't seem too farfetched to think that the Honorblades also served that purpose - to allow the remaining Heralds to retake or keep their Oath at the end of a desolation, and consequently served as a means to return to Braize. And since all the Honorblades were originally the mark of one Oath, it doesn't seem infeasible to think that uniting them into one place together, with 10 people bonded to them, and them collectively (re)swearing the original Oath would renew the Oathpact and stop the desolation.

I agree that at some point "Unite them" may apply to honorblades too, after all they are splinters of honor too. May be Honor's Champion will carry a single, really big, merged honorblade granting its holder all the twenty surges.

But i dont think that the original Oathpact worked at all. It was a flawed concept to begin with. It has been said that honor obviously failed to realise that men may swear oaths but may prove unable to keep them. Heralds breaking up under the constant torture led to desolations. You seem to be suggesting that dalinar or whoever is in charge will redo the same failed experiment with new 10 people and condemn them to an eternity of torture? I find that difficult to accept.

Dalinar seems to be of the mind that if Honor is dead than Odium can be killed too. I feel that he is looking for a slightly more permanent solution. 

Oathpact failed to stop desolations in fact i think the failure caused desolations.

Edited September 24, 2019 by The traveller

[+TheFoxQR]

8 hours ago, The traveller said:

May be Honor's Champion will carry a single, really big, merged honorblade granting its holder all the twenty surges.

There's 10 Surges. And I don't think this gonna happen.

8 hours ago, The traveller said:

But i dont think that the original Oathpact worked at all. It was a flawed concept to begin with. It has been said that honor obviously failed to realise that men may swear oaths but may prove unable to keep them. Heralds breaking up under the constant torture led to desolations. You seem to be suggesting that dalinar or whoever is in charge will redo the same failed experiment with new 10 people and condemn them to an eternity of torture? I find that difficult to accept.

This is a fair write up, but we don't know the circumstances of the original Oathpact. The one instance we do have can be considered a case of an unreliable narrator. We don't know if the Oathpact was meant to be a permanent solution, or even if it was - did Honor really come up with it, or was it Ishar and the Heralds? The Oathpact was functional at some point - while it held, it did stop the Fused from recovering. The torture came from parties that weren't directly involved in the Oathpact - namely Odium and the Fused.

For all we know, the Oathpact was only meant to be a delaying tactic, if not to the Heralds, then to the Shards.

Not to mention that a new Oathpact doesn't have to he the same - it _could_ deviate in a lot of ways.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is a.) don't assume what we know about it is all completely true and unbiased, and consequently, b.) reswearing it may or may not mean what we think it does, and this is before we get to the idea that reviving it from it's weakened state may or may not allow someone who knows what they're doing to change things about it

8 hours ago, The traveller said:

Dalinar seems to be of the mind that if Honor is dead than Odium can be killed too. I feel that he is looking for a slightly more permanent solution. 

This doesn't mean he's going to find it. Sure, it also doesn't mean he's not gonna find it, but that's a neither here nor there thing.

Remember, Odium was caught off guard at the end of OB. Things didn't go the way he planned them to because of Cultivation's intervention years ago. And he was very surprised by what happened to Dalinar, whatever that was. He will be a _lot_ more vigilant and careful going forwards, so things may or may not be as easy next time.

8 hours ago, The traveller said:

Oathpact failed to stop desolations in fact i think the failure caused desolations.

I wouldn't put it quite like that, but this is pretty accurate.

What the Oathpact (atleast at it's inception) did was essentially create an equal playing field between both sides. Now the Fused didn't die and just immediately come back. Now, there was a consequence to their dying.

Edited September 24, 2019 by TheFoxQR

[Wander89]

He's uniting all the threads in the Pattern.

 

Yes I'm reading Wheel of Time.