Elandera

Long Game 60: The Shadow Over the Forests of Hell

304 posts in this topic

Rathinald here

Seems like a lot of variance in the votes so far:

  • CadCom (4) - Fifth, Araris, Venture, Rath, Ark
  • Xino (1) - Cadcom, Araris
  • Devotary (1) - CadCom, Araris
  • Venture (0) - Rath

Looks like Devotary beat me to the vote count.

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Posted (edited)

@CadCom I'm vouching for Devotionary's innocence as the bodyguard. You can take your vote off.

Remaining players who could be eliminators:

  1. Xinoehp512: Inactive
  2. Rathmaskal: Helpful
  3. Araris Valerian: Has silver bones apparently. Could maybe be a deep one?
  4. ILuvHats: Inactive
  5. Ark1002: Inactive

So, even after we lynch The Founder and the Deep one(s) we'll still have at least one remaining Eliminator:

  1. Xinoehp512: Again he's inactive
  2. Rathmaskal: Really good analysis. A team player. Probably village but is still uncleared.
  3. Fifth Scholar: Helpful like Rath. But like him, uncleared.
  4. Araris Valerian: Having silver bones is a soft clear. But I've had a bad feeling about Araris the whole game.
  5. Butt Ad Venture: Bodyguard
  6. Ventyl: I don't really know. I'm a tad bit suspicious.
  7. ILuvHats: Inactive
  8. Sart: Criminal who's been found. He's cleared.
  9. Ark1002: Inactive
  10. Devotary of Spontaneity: Governor

The good news is that most of the inactives are on the un-insane list! So it's more likely than not that we'll have them gone before we start hunting for the final cultist.
The other good news is that the necronomicon still exist somewhere! And now would be a pretty good time to do some claiming!

Edited by Butt Ad Venture
Stupid Ctrl+Enter V.S. Shift+Enter
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I’ve had a long post get eaten by the Shard twice now, so here’s the summarised version because I need to get this out here before the cycle ends.

Devotary, CadCom

-My current theory, which is possibly the product of a paranoid brain, is that there’s no Founder, and there’s a four man elim team, and no Governor or Bodyguard.

-Why? The village is too powerful to have a governor/bodyguard as confirmed roles; we had a secret village role that could day track, convert and essentially alignment scan, I know an archaeologist who’s proved themselves to me, going insane is a reliable indicator of not-Deep Oneness, all neutrals that fail automatically convert to the village, we have unlimited scanning and redirects, etc, etc—in short, the Elims can’t keep up with the rate at which we can clear people if there’s also a gov and a bodyguard 

-however, if there’s no Founder and simply a larger team, things are much fairer, the Elims retain the same amount of voting power and it’s harder for the village to clear people—hunting sane people is a less viable strategy

-Devotary and Venture have shown signs of coordination or working towards the same goals, and I really don’t think they’re village goals

-CadCom is winning far too comfortably in votes right now for the Elims to not have done anything

-Lingering suspicion of Devotary from Aman’s analysis, tied to Venture and perhaps Xino as Elims. The Deep One is probably Rath but only if Devotary is evil, otherwise it’s cadcom and the Elims are letting him be run over by the village, which would be uncharacteristic. We’ll know either way by lynching devotary

-if none of this makes sense that’s fine, I don’t understand it either :P This is what happens when your post gets eaten twice. Need to go do actual work but we should reconsider blindly trusting these two as they’re pushing for it. Notice how there’s been little opposition there all game, all of it has been village, and it’s evaporated once they’ve collaborated. The CadCom lynch is probably mostly full of villagers but the Elims seem to be standing aside here. 

I need to go do work, but will try to check in periodically

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Posted (edited)

@Fifth Scholar I sort of agree with your line of reasoning, at least in that I'm starting to doubt a 3-man elim team with both the Founder and Deep One. The insanity mechanic would make it too easy for use to exploit that. Perhaps lynching Venture would be better than Devotary though, in the event that they are telling the truth. That way we would only lose the bodyguard, and not the mayor.

@CadCom, @Butt Ad Venture, @Ark1002, @Rathmaskal, what are your thoughts regarding this/Fifth's post?

Edited by Araris Valerian
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8 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

-My current theory, which is possibly the product of a paranoid brain, is that there’s no Founder, and there’s a four man elim team, and no Governor or Bodyguard.

-Why? The village is too powerful to have a governor/bodyguard as confirmed roles; we had a secret village role that could day track, convert and essentially alignment scan, I know an archaeologist who’s proved themselves to me, going insane is a reliable indicator of not-Deep Oneness, all neutrals that fail automatically convert to the village, we have unlimited scanning and redirects, etc, etc—in short, the Elims can’t keep up with the rate at which we can clear people if there’s also a gov and a bodyguard 

-however, if there’s no Founder and simply a larger team, things are much fairer, the Elims retain the same amount of voting power and it’s harder for the village to clear people—hunting sane people is a less viable strategy

-Devotary and Venture have shown signs of coordination or working towards the same goals, and I really don’t think they’re village goals

-CadCom is winning far too comfortably in votes right now for the Elims to not have done anything

-Lingering suspicion of Devotary from Aman’s analysis, tied to Venture and perhaps Xino as Elims. The Deep One is probably Rath but only if Devotary is evil, otherwise it’s cadcom and the Elims are letting him be run over by the village, which would be uncharacteristic. We’ll know either way by lynching devotary

-if none of this makes sense that’s fine, I don’t understand it either :P This is what happens when your post gets eaten twice. Need to go do actual work but we should reconsider blindly trusting these two as they’re pushing for it. Notice how there’s been little opposition there all game, all of it has been village, and it’s evaporated once they’ve collaborated. The CadCom lynch is probably mostly full of villagers but the Elims seem to be standing aside here. 

I need to go do work, but will try to check in periodically

How does an archaeologist prove their role? We haven't had any unaccounted for Forbidden Idols, the archaeologist has no unique night actions that can tracked by discover the Hidden, items can be randomly gained N2 or later, and Aman was roleblocked D2. The best I can think of is that an archaeologist could have two items and you decided it was unlikely that an elim gifted an item to a teammate who already had an item.

If I was not the Governor and there was no Founder, the extra vote on Striker would have to be a Voice in the Crowd or a Forbidden Idol. If you know an archaeologist, they would not have claimed to be responsible for that.

The elims of course don't have to do anything if CadCom isn't evil, and if he is evil there was still time to do something about it. Why do you believe the Deep One is necessarily active? They haven't obviously used their Insanity ability, though it's entirely possible that you were the N1 target.

Having multiple elims capable of going insane is plausible though.

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7 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

How does an archaeologist prove their role? We haven't had any unaccounted for Forbidden Idols, the archaeologist has no unique night actions that can tracked by discover the Hidden, items can be randomly gained N2 or later, and Aman was roleblocked D2. The best I can think of is that an archaeologist could have two items and you decided it was unlikely that an elim gifted an item to a teammate who already had an item.

If I was not the Governor and there was no Founder, the extra vote on Striker would have to be a Voice in the Crowd or a Forbidden Idol. If you know an archaeologist, they would not have claimed to be responsible for that.

The elims of course don't have to do anything if CadCom isn't evil, and if he is evil there was still time to do something about it. Why do you believe the Deep One is necessarily active? They haven't obviously used their Insanity ability, though it's entirely possible that you were the N1 target.

Having multiple elims capable of going insane is plausible though.

Not proved, claimed, which is my fault again. This is what happens when you write your posts quickly :P They do plan to prove themselves to me today or tonight with an item, and I (mostly) trust this player apart from their roleclaim, so I’m not considering them a suspect, at the very least, particularly given their willingness to work with me and the reads I’ve gotten from their posts. You can probably guess who this is by now, but eh, I’m holding to my word to not explicitly reveal them without their permission :P 

VitC is what I’m suspecting from the extra vote, and an elim team with multiple “vanillas” is more than capable of getting one through. 

My going insane N1 is hardly attributable to coincidence, I don’t think—10% is fairly low odds, and while overall it’s more likely than not that somebody went insane from unforgettable horrors, my ego tells me it’s because I was prolific enough to get targeted. :P N2 I’ll grant that Ventyl probably went insane naturally, but I’ve already detailed that I don’t think that your insanity was natural either, particularly with your inability to verify your action.  

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55 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

I’ve had a long post get eaten by the Shard twice now, so here’s the summarised version because I need to get this out here before the cycle ends.

Devotary, CadCom

-My current theory, which is possibly the product of a paranoid brain, is that there’s no Founder, and there’s a four man elim team, and no Governor or Bodyguard.

-Why? The village is too powerful to have a governor/bodyguard as confirmed roles; we had a secret village role that could day track, convert and essentially alignment scan, I know an archaeologist who’s proved themselves to me, going insane is a reliable indicator of not-Deep Oneness, all neutrals that fail automatically convert to the village, we have unlimited scanning and redirects, etc, etc—in short, the Elims can’t keep up with the rate at which we can clear people if there’s also a gov and a bodyguard 

-however, if there’s no Founder and simply a larger team, things are much fairer, the Elims retain the same amount of voting power and it’s harder for the village to clear people—hunting sane people is a less viable strategy

-Devotary and Venture have shown signs of coordination or working towards the same goals, and I really don’t think they’re village goals

-CadCom is winning far too comfortably in votes right now for the Elims to not have done anything

-Lingering suspicion of Devotary from Aman’s analysis, tied to Venture and perhaps Xino as Elims. The Deep One is probably Rath but only if Devotary is evil, otherwise it’s cadcom and the Elims are letting him be run over by the village, which would be uncharacteristic. We’ll know either way by lynching devotary

-if none of this makes sense that’s fine, I don’t understand it either :P This is what happens when your post gets eaten twice. Need to go do actual work but we should reconsider blindly trusting these two as they’re pushing for it. Notice how there’s been little opposition there all game, all of it has been village, and it’s evaporated once they’ve collaborated. The CadCom lynch is probably mostly full of villagers but the Elims seem to be standing aside here. 

I need to go do work, but will try to check in periodically

Fifth, you're being paranoid/evil. Did you not think I wouldn't notice you putting CadCom conveniently in range of the Founder's abilities? Nice try at distancing though.

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Fourty-five minutes left in the cycle. Get your votes and actions in before it's too late!

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7 minutes ago, Sart said:

Fifth, you're being paranoid/evil. Did you not think I wouldn't notice you putting CadCom conveniently in range of the Founder's abilities? Nice try at distancing though.

You’re going to completely disregard what I’ve presented in favour of believing both myself and CadCom evil, without even considering the fact that you’re cementing the very wagon which an hour ago had no vocal critics whatsoever? I had no incentive to attack CadCom if we were both evil—it’d be very simple to go after Rath, or after Devotary to begin with, and you’re ignoring that I’m the one who set off a lynch train on my “teammate,” while conveniently dismissing the one situation which I’m urging you to consider. Just because you’ve been confirmed village doesn’t mean you’re helping it by dismissing me. If the Founder tips the lynch towards Devotary, we know exactly who to lynch tomorrow, but they won’t do that because Devotary is likely evil. CadCom has fairly incriminating circumstantial evidence surrounding him, but right now it isn’t enough to convince me he’s guilty, particularly with the lack of defenders, while I take issue with Devotary’s actual posts (and there’s plenty of circumstantial evidence surrounding her as well). In a world where Devotary is innocent, there’s still three Eliminators and a village voting majority tomorrow, which can’t be said for CadCom being innocent, which at this point is more likely. 

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I'm willing to believe the devotary/venture claim for now. I think it's pretty much close to the end for me. Sart, I see you didnt believe my claim. That's okay, your loss. 

Not sure what the vote count is, but I'm pretty sure I'm still on top. You're all missing out on a valuable asset. But for the sake of me voting my conscience, 

devotary rathmaskal. adios everyone

Edited by CadCom
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Let us set a fire in our flesh. 

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That's the end of the turn. The new one should be posted shortly.

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“I will not wake again,” Ruthful intoned. “Battle is vain. Why should we wish to live longer? Why should we not go to death side by side, Tim?” 

“Authority is not given to you, old woman, to order the hour of your death,” answered Rowley. “And only the heathen Cultists, under the dominion of Dagon’s dark power, did thus, slaying themselves in their pride and despair, and murdering their kin to ease their own death.” Then passing through the door he took Tim from the deathly altar and laid him on the bier on which he had been brought, and which had now been set on the floor. Ruthful followed him, and stood trembling, looking with longing on the face of her former friend. And for a moment, while all were silent and stil, watching her in her contemplations, she wavered. 

“Come!” said Rowley. “We are needed. There is much that you can yet do.”

Then suddenly Ruthful laughed. She stood up tall and proud again, and swiftly stepping back to the table she lifted from it the pillow on which her head had fallen. Then coming to the doorway she drew aside the covering, and lo! she had between her hands a dagger. And as she held it up, it seemed to those who looked on that the blade began to glow with an inner flame, so that the lean face of the Lady was lit as with a red fire, and it seemed cut out of hard stone, sharp with black shadows, noble, proud, and terrible. Her eyes glittered. 

“Pride and despair!” she cried. “Didst thou think that the eyes of Dagon Almighty were blind? Nay, I have seen more than thou knowest, fool! For thy hope is but ignorance. Go then and labour in healing! Go forth and fight! Vanity. For a little space you may triumph in the streets, for a day. But against this power that now arises there is no victory. To this city only the first finger of its hand has yet been stretched. Your ways have failed. It is time now for all to depart who would not be slaves. 

“I sought the death of myself on this altar, and of Tim, who now fades, after the town failed to heed our cries. Yet if your doom denies it to me, Rowley, then I shall have naught: neither life diminished, nor love halved, nor honour abated.”

“To me it would not seem that a townsperson who faithfully surrenders herself to the people’s will is diminished in love or in honour,” said Rowley. “And at the least you shall not rob Tim of his choice while his death is still in doubt.”

At these words Ruthful’s eyes flamed again, and taking the dagger in her hand she strode towards the bier. But Rowley sprang forward and set himself before Tim. 

“So!” cried Ruthful. “Thou hadst already stolen half the town’s wills. Now thou stealest the completion of Dagon’s work also, so that in my own temple they rob me wholly of my recompense at the last. But in this at least thou shalt not defy my will: to rule my own end.”

“Come hither!” she cried to her servants. “Come, if ye are not all recreant!” Then two of the Cultists ran up the steps to her, scooping up Tim and placing him on the altar. Swiftly Ruthful snatched a torch from the hand of one and sprang back up to the highest place. Before Rowley could hinder her, she thrust the brand amid the fuel, and it crackled and roared into flame. 

Then Ruthful leaped upon the altar, and standing there wreathed in fire and smoke plunged the dagger first into Tim’s heart, and then into hers. And then she gave a great cry, and thereafter spoke no more, nor ever was seen by mortal men. 


CadCom has been lynched! They were the Necromancer.
Fifth Scholar has been sacrificed! They were a Dagon’s Will of the Esoteric Order of Dagon

Vote Count

CadCom (3) - Rathmaskal, Butt Ad Venture, Sart, Ark1002
Devotary of Spontaneity (2) - Fifth Scholar
Xinoehp512 (1) - Araris Valerian
Rathmaskal (1) - CadCom

Rule Clarification

Spoiler

Self Sacrifice - Members of the order can use an additional action to sacrifice one of their own during a Day Turn. This can only happen if that player agrees, or that player has not posted in two cycles and there is a unanimous vote among the other members. If Self Sacrifice is used, the Order will be able to convert one player to the occult ways once per game. 

The previous version of this was a result of a former win-con, which was changed for the number of players.

Player List

Spoiler

 

  1. Xinoehp512
  2. Rathmaskal
  3. Fifth Scholar Dagon’s Will
  4. Cadmium Compounder Necromancer
  5. Araris Valerian
  6. shanerockes Journalist
  7. Amanuensis Government Agent
  8. Butt Ad Venture
  9. StrikerEZ Gravedigger
  10. Ventyl
  11. ILuvHats
  12. Sart
  13. Ark1002
  14. Devotary of Spontaneity

This turn will end Thursday, October 10th at 6 p.m. PDT.

(Thanks to @Fifth Scholar for the write up!)

Edited by Elandera
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Thus ends Fifth's first game starting as an elim. It appears we've had a subtle and unfortunate rule change, where self-sacrifice now allows the elims to convert even if the sacrificed member wasn't an inactive. Someone has now become an elim. I'm pretty sure that clears Ventyl at least. 

Either the Founder shifted a vote from CadCom to me, someone did Voices in the Crowd, or the archaeologist got very unlucky. The archaeologist could open claim except for the possibility of a bounty hunter or that the archaeologist is now evil. The owner of the Necronomicon can now use their item to grant a hint of the Deep One's identity.

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30 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

It appears we've had a subtle and unfortunate rule change, where self-sacrifice now allows the elims to convert even if the sacrificed member wasn't an inactive. Someone has now become an elim. I'm pretty sure that clears Ventyl at least. 

Not necessarily. It could have been a random redirect.

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2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

Not necessarily. It could have been a random redirect.

Fifth's death was definitely a self-sacrifice, as the kill others action takes place at night. 

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I suspected something like this might happen. CadCom had revealed himself as the necromancer to me in our PM. He hadn't proved his role, and I really didn't want us to lynch the Governor, so I forced the vote onto him. I had a feeling that his claim was accurate, but I wanted a 40% chance of lynching an elim rather than a 0% chance. Still that brings our odds of lynching the Founder or Deep One to 50%.

Let's see. So, the four suspects from most to least trusted:

  • Xinoehp: Scanned Aman converting Hats. This should be easy to confirm. @ILuvHats Did Aman convert you? Even if the Reverend doesn't confirm this, I doubt an Elim would drag a teammate into this. He's probably my strongest village read at the moment.
  • ILuvHats: If he's a Villager, based on my understanding, he should have gained Aman's day tracking action. If he used his action yesterday, and could give a valid tracking result, we could clear him.
  • Rathmaskal: He was the one who first suggested this tactic. He would be painting himself into a corner if he was an Elim. No solid evidence to clear him though.
  • Ark1002: My biggest suspicion currently. There's just nothing clearing him, and that makes him guilty via process of elimination.

The other problem is the conversion. I also suspected something like this might happen. I'm surprised that Fifth was the one to do the conversion though. I would have thought that the Founder or the Deep One would have fled the net surrounding their roles. In any event, we still need to figure out who was converted.

So, there's five suspects from most to least trusted:

  • Devotary: As far as I understand it, whoever was converted should have lost their original role. So, we just need to see if their vote counts for double tomorrow.
  • Ventyl: I'm just including Ventyl for the sake of completeness. I highly doubt the Elims would convert a total inactive.
  • Sart: I have no way of backing up my innocence, but I know I'm still good. I'm just putting myself this low to be unbiased.
  • Venture: We can't verify that they still have the Bodyguard role so long as Devotary isn't attacked.
  • Araris: Unfortunately, no evidence.

There's no evidence either way right now, and more speculation is just going to be a huge IKYK.

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10 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Fifth's death was definitely a self-sacrifice, as the kill others action takes place at night. 

You are correct.

Oops. :D 

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Rathinald here.

Fade, your query was a valid one prior to this evening.  However, with the obvious sacrifice of Ruthful to convert someone to the cult's evil deeds, it's clear that old woman's theories must be discounted!  It is most likely false, but in my extensive experiences working to bring down cults such as this, I've found that cultist's may sprinkle a note of truth to their lies.

We find ourselves at a crossroads my friends.  Unfortunately for us all, everyone who was relatively cleared prior to this evening must now come under renewed scrutiny.  However, we must not abandon the work we've done to find the creatures who are behind this cult.  If we continue to focus on the true evil of The Founder and The Deep One, we may yet find ourselves in a position where we can overcome this evil!

OK, so continuing on my line of thought from earlier today, and knowing full well that some of the people who were cleared may not be so now, we have the following people as potential deep one/founder candidates:

  • Enasni
  • Rathinald (me)
  • Tim (dead)
  • Fade (Half-cleared)
  • Kill-sin Pimple
  • Mindful (Thief turned village)
  • Arr. K Thousantoo

Honestly folks, this should be as simple as throwing darts at a dart board.

One thing that no one has mentioned yet - one vote was cleared changed from Tim to Lord Ghent.  Most people I'm thinking are in agreement that Lord Ghent is the governor, so that is one of two possibilities:

  • An elim voted on Tim but really wanted to vote on Lord Ghent
  • The Founder was active and moved someone's vote

Votes on Tim:

  • Patrick Punnington
  • Rathinald
  • Mindful
  • Arr. K Thousantoo

Patrick is in fact bodyguard to Lord Ghent, so I don't see any situation where he changed his own vote.  I didn't use an action, but can't prove that at all.  Mindful we know wasn't an elim at that time.  I'm starting to wonder about Arr. though.  He was around near the end of the day, but not necessarily the very end when Mindful voted for Tim and Tim moved his vote away from Lord Ghent.  This changed the math from 3-2 Tim to 4-1 Tim, changing the situation away from where a single vote swap would have affected the result of the lynch.  Arr is also on the (now rather short) list of candidates for The Deep One and The founder.  Unless someone has a better idea, I'm thinking that's where my focus will lie come morning.

 

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Less than an hour left in this turn, so get in your actions!. Rollover may take longer than usual. 

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That's the end of the turn, the next day turn should be up shortly.

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(((Write-up to be edited in)))

 

Araris Valerian has been sacrificed! They were a Fort Folk with Silver Bones.

Sart has fallen to the Wrath of Shades! They were (most recently) a Dagon’s Will of the Esoteric Order of Dagon

Devotary of Spontaneity has gone insane!

Butt Venture has gone insane!

Elbereth is joining the game, pinch-hitting for Ventyl. Thank you El!

 

Player List

Spoiler

 

  1. Xinoehp512
  2. Rathmaskal
  3. Fifth Scholar Dagon’s Will
  4. Cadmium Compounder Necromancer
  5. Araris Valerian Fort Folk
  6. shanerockes Journalist
  7. Amanuensis Government Agent
  8. Butt Ad Venture
  9. StrikerEZ Gravedigger
  10. Elbereth/Ventyl
  11. ILuvHats
  12. Sart Criminal Fort Folk Dagon’s Will
  13. Ark1002
  14. Devotary of Spontaneity

 

This turn will end Saturday, October 12th at 6 p.m. PST.

 

Edited by Snipexe
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Rathinald here.

Arr. K Thousantoo for reasons outlined during the night turn.

So, great news.  Assuming both The Deep One and The Founder are in the game, this should be a fairly easy village win now.

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Hello! Popping in to note that I exist but am extremely tired and planning on sleeping as soon as I finish this post. I have not read any of the past game (though it looks surprisingly short so I might?) nor more than skimmed the rules, but I can start paying attention around 14-16 hours from now. Don’t expect anything further from me until then, because school is a pain. 

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Announcement! We forgot something.

Butts Ad Venture has gone insane!

Edited by Elandera
For PAFO reasons...
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