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Stormlight 4 Readings and Info


Pagerunner

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23 minutes ago, robardin said:

We know Dalinar got his boon directly from Cultivation, as did Taravangian, yeah?

Yeah.

23 minutes ago, robardin said:

So if it's the direct touch of Cultivation that makes one "smell" like the Nightwatcher to Lift, that would indeed be something that could happen

Exactly.

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I quite like the implications of the cover - even if it was a simple prompt by Dragonsteel. Here's what I think we can glean from it:
 
- Shallan and Adolin are going into Shadesmar.
- Adolin knew he'd be going in this time, so he brought a weapon with him.
- This makes sense as Adolin will
definitely be moody because of the fallout from Dalinar's biography.
- If Shallan is on her mission to turn Sja-anat, the Taker of Secrets and Corrupter of Spren to Team Radiant, it would make lots of sense that they'd be going in-depth into Shadesmar and spren culture.
- We've also been teased with Maya's re-birth, so if they're in a reconnaissance mission in the Cognitive Realm, it would make sense that they would find the secret to reawaken Maya from her death there.
 
I'm a big fan of all of these implications!
Edited by Goatbringer
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Ok, I have a confession. When I looked at the images my first reaction was "Shallan's hand is exposed!=○"

Then: *safehand detected* "Nevermind. She's wearing a glove".

Also me, who thinks anyone should be able to wear (or not wear) whatever they want: *Sigh of relief*

 

LOL

 

 

(Btw, that's a joke, please don't take it too seriously)

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On 9/7/2019 at 6:50 PM, Pagerunner said:

I will endeavor to keep this up to date as new information or additional excerpts come out. If there’s something new, or anything important I’ve missed, please feel free to ping me.

Thought I would ping you about the new cover art.

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On 19/05/2020 at 1:46 AM, Karger said:

I wonder why Adolin is always carrying a sword even in shadesmar.  That can't be Maya.

I suppose he is carrying a conventional sword precisely it cannot be Maya. Last time in Shadesmar they met Fused. Arming yourself is just prudent. It tells us almost nothing. He may have planned to go to Shadesmar, or have bought a sword in Shadesmar or be carrying someody else's sword.

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8 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

I suppose he is carrying a conventional sword precisely it cannot be Maya. Last time in Shadesmar they met Fused. Arming yourself is just prudent. It tells us almost nothing. He may have planned to go to Shadesmar, or have bought a sword in Shadesmar or be carrying someody else's sword.

So this is a planed trip.

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2 hours ago, Karger said:

So this is a planed trip.

That is most likely. But not nearly absolute evidence. An unplanned trip to Shadesmar is usually a death sentence, unless you are carrying a lot of water or Stormlight and know how to use it. You are dropped into a desert for all practical purposes. That means you have two days or so.

The first trip to Shadesmar happened to happen to a troop that carried canteens

EDIT:
Looking at the picture again I noticed that Adolin is not wearing a scabbard. This need not mean anything. It may just be back where his bedroll and backpack that we aren't seeing either are located.

Edited by Oltux72
looked at the picture again
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1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

That is most likely. But not nearly absolute evidence. An unplanned trip to Shadesmar is usually a death sentence, unless you are carrying a lot of water or Stormlight and know how to use it. You are dropped into a desert for all practical purposes. That means you have two days or so.

Shallan has stormlight so even unplanned they would survive at least for a while.  Depending on the location they would also be able to acquire food fairly easily.  The other noticable detail is those small spren.  Could they be lifespren?  They look a lot like Windspren were described in Shadesmar but I imagine the same rules apply. 

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4 minutes ago, Karger said:

Shallan has stormlight so even unplanned they would survive at least for a while.

So has Adolin if he has a bit of change in his pockets. What she does not have is the apparatus used to condense water. She would have to improvise it. Nor is she likely to have a bead for a chunk of ice. Although that really depends on their location. Can you soulcast something into ice and then manifest it?

4 minutes ago, Karger said:

Depending on the location they would also be able to acquire food fairly easily.

The most serious problem is water. Shadesmar is literally a desert. No standing water, no precipitation.

4 minutes ago, Karger said:

The other noticable detail is those small spren.  Could they be lifespren? 

If they are spren. They could also be soul flames. No way to tell be looking at them. In fact a pond or tidal pool should have fish and cremlings in it.

4 minutes ago, Karger said:

They look a lot like Windspren were described in Shadesmar but I imagine the same rules apply. 

They do.

Also Shallan is wearing a glove and those boots Adolin is wearing look like sturdy boots for outdoors. Shallan is wearing a jacket, not a dress. In fact it looks like a modified Kholin uniform jacket. Yes, this looks very much like a planned expedition.

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Re-reading the prostitute scene with Adolin in Way of Kings makes me feel like the sword is not as important an indicator as thought. In that scene Adolin has a side sword that he rests his hand on when first talking to the Sadeas officer. When Adolin and the two guys with him get surrounded, then he summons Maya. So it certainly seems that walking with a side sword is normal regardless if you are bonded with a shardblade or not. Or at least it seems common for Adolin. 

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Just now, Oltux72 said:

So has Adolin if he has a bit of change in his pockets. What she does not have is the apparatus used to condense water. She would have to improvise it. Nor is she likely to have a bead for a chunk of ice. Although that really depends on their location. Can you soulcast something into ice and then manifest it?

I don't see why not.

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

The most serious problem is water. Shadesmar is literally a desert. No standing water, no precipitation.

If they have stormlight Shallan will not need water.  I wonder if you can manifest drinkable water using pure soulcasting.

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

If they are spren. They could also be soul flames. No way to tell be looking at them. In fact a pond or tidal pool should have fish and cremlings in it.

That and the large number of rivers supports them being in some kind of swampy area.

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Also Shallan is wearing a glove and those boots Adolin is wearing look like sturdy boots for outdoors. Shallan is wearing a jacket, not a dress. In fact it looks like a modified Kholin uniform jacket. Yes, this looks very much like a planned expedition.

Agreed.  They are also not lugging any supplies around with them indicating someone(s) else.  PoV or not is with them. 

1 minute ago, Pathfinder said:

Re-reading the prostitute scene with Adolin in Way of Kings makes me feel like the sword is not as important an indicator as thought. In that scene Adolin has a side sword that he rests his hand on when first talking to the Sadeas officer. When Adolin and the two guys with him get surrounded, then he summons Maya. So it certainly seems that walking with a side sword is normal regardless if you are bonded with a shardblade or not. Or at least it seems common for Adolin. 

That seems like a dress uniform thing.  He does not carry a side sword when actually engaging in combat.  Additionally it makes sense that Dalinar makes everyone carry around visible weapons as part of the codes of war even if they don't need them.  As to its bearing on the trip itself @Oltux72 pointed out that their clothing indicates they were expecting to be traveling if not fighting.

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8 minutes ago, Karger said:

That seems like a dress uniform thing.  He does not carry a side sword when actually engaging in combat.  Additionally it makes sense that Dalinar makes everyone carry around visible weapons as part of the codes of war even if they don't need them.  As to its bearing on the trip itself @Oltux72 pointed out that their clothing indicates they were expecting to be traveling if not fighting.

That was my point. Having the sword doesn't mean he is going on an expedition. He wore the sword when going to speak with another brightlord in the warcamps. So the sword is more for in line with the codes than to be prepared for anything. 

As to the clothing, Shallan is wearing a dress under the jacket. She also has a safe hand sleeve. Are you guys discussing the winning cover? Or the runner up?

 

edit: See?

 

Capture.PNG

Edited by Pathfinder
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7 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

That was my point. Having the sword doesn't mean he is going on an expedition. He wore the sword when going to speak with another brightlord in the warcamps. So the sword is more for in line with the codes than to be prepared for anything.

If this were a part of a uniform, it should include the scabbard. Theoretically he might have removed it at that instant, but that is a complicated explanation.

7 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

As to the clothing, Shallan is wearing a dress under the jacket.

Sorry for being unprecise. Her outfit is not limited to a dress like it would be in doors.

7 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

She also has a safe hand sleeve.

Yes and it is open. Meaning that is not just a borrowed male jacket in a shorter version. This is modified for a female user. Simplest explanation: It is hers and she is wearing it because she had been ready to travel.

7 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Are you guys discussing the winning cover? Or the runner up?

No, the winner. If we compare all four you may note that Adolin is holding a sword in two of them.

 

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32 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Another question arising from the Lift reading. Who are the others whom Wyndle did art for? Can we safely conclude that the Edgedancers are back in numbers and Wyndle is creating an art club?

I had a thread on this with all the other spren making comments on Wyndle's chairs but I can't find it.  We know other types of spren enjoy crystal gardening.

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1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

If this were a part of a uniform, it should include the scabbard. Theoretically he might have removed it at that instant, but that is a complicated explanation.

Or maybe the artist just forgot to include it? (not being snarky, just presenting a genuine possibility). Could also be on the other side of the coat flap. The flap is sticking out as if it is being pushed back: (don't know how to embed the image directly under this part so you may have to refer to further in my post)

 

adolin.PNG

Quote

Sorry for being unprecise. Her outfit is not limited to a dress like it would be in doors.

But if we are using all the artworks as reference, then the UK artwork should be considered, and she is in a full dress in that one. 

Shallan.PNG

 

Quote

Yes and it is open. Meaning that is not just a borrowed male jacket in a shorter version. This is modified for a female user. Simplest explanation: It is hers and she is wearing it because she had been ready to travel.

But all dresses have safehands that can be opened and closed. They also can include a safe pouch that can be fastened and unfastened. That is not unique to that dress. Shallan, as well as Navani, Jasnah and etc have all mentioned that. It is actually standard for vorin dresses. 

Quote

No, the winner. If we compare all four you may note that Adolin is holding a sword in two of them.

True, though in the prompt Adolin was not mentioned at all and two of these as well as the UK version don't include Adolin at all. At the end of the day, these were artist interpretations of the writers prompt which was Shallan, Cognitive realm, and Storm. Brandon ultimately chose one, so we can attempt to glean stuff from it, but as I mentioned in another thread, based on how the past covers have worked, I think it is very difficult to glean much definable information. One point I made for instance is the assumption that Shallan and Adolin will be together the entire book because of this cover. I am not saying they won't. Just Way of Kings has two people on the cover (some think Kaladin, some think Eshonai) and Dalinar. For 90 percent of Way of Kings those individuals were apart or had not even met yet. Words of Radiance same deal. Kaladin and Szeth ran into each other twice across the entire novel. One brief fight in the palace, and then the fight at the end. Finally Oathbringer has Jasnah by herself, yet that scene involves the entire rest of the cast. So for all we know there could be three people off screen. Or Adolin and Shallan could have just met up after having been in separate groups. Or they traveled together the entire time and this is the moment they split. Or (my joke theory) Adolin could be dead and Shallan made an illusion of him (shes done it before) so she does not have to accept his death, thereby her last truth is that Adolin is dead and gone. Basically I honestly feel like the only actual information we can take from this cover is at some point at the end of the novel Shallan definitely ends up in the cognitive realm. What she is doing, how long she has been there, who she is with, who she is not with, and where she is going after this scene are all big question marks to me. 

 

edit: oh! oh! oh! Just had a thought! We also cannot say that because Adolin is holding a sword that it is not Maya! Because the UK artwork has Shallan with Pattern sword and she is in the cognitive realm. So if Shallan can manifest her blade while in the cognitive realm, then theoretically so can Adolin!

Edited by Pathfinder
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5 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

But if we are using all the artworks as reference, then the UK artwork should be considered, and she is in a full dress in that one. 

I don't think that is Shallan.  It also could easily be an entirely different scene. 

5 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

edit: oh! oh! oh! Just had a thought! We also cannot say that because Adolin is holding a sword that it is not Maya! Because the UK artwork has Shallan with Pattern sword and she is in the cognitive realm. So if Shallan can manifest her blade while in the cognitive realm, then theoretically so can Adolin!

That just lends further credence to this not being the same scene.  We know of no way of summoning a blade like this.

Edited by Karger
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8 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Or maybe the artist just forgot to include it? (not being snarky, just presenting a genuine possibility).

Well, that is a possibility we can say nothing about. We can look at the other picture with Adolin holding a sword. Also no scabbard.

8 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Could also be on the other side of the coat flap. The flap is sticking out as if it is being pushed back: (don't know how to embed the image directly under this part so you may have to refer to further in my post)

 

adolin.PNG

No. Consider how long the sword is. It would hit the ground if pointed straight down from waist level. A scabbard has to be at least as long as the blade. It would stick out, as it cannot be worn vertical. It has to be one of those with a triangular system of straps that keeps them at an angle.In fact this sword is rather close to the upper practical limit for a sword to carry on your belt. A reason to not consider this a dress sword.

8 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

But if we are using all the artworks as reference, then the UK artwork should be considered, and she is in a full dress in that one. 

Shallan.PNG

 

But all dresses have safehands that can be opened and closed. They also can include a safe pouch that can be fastened and unfastened. That is not unique to that dress. Shallan, as well as Navani, Jasnah and etc have all mentioned that. It is actually standard for vorin dresses. 

The cover is on the jacket, not the dress. Her uniform jacket is also considerably shorter. It is a different version, apparently for female wearers.

8 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

True, though in the prompt Adolin was not mentioned at all and two of these as well as the UK version don't include Adolin at all. At the end of the day, these were artist interpretations of the writers prompt which was Shallan, Cognitive realm, and Storm.

Storm? In Shadesmar?

8 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Brandon ultimately chose one, so we can attempt to glean stuff from it, but as I mentioned in another thread, based on how the past covers have worked, I think it is very difficult to glean much definable information. One point I made for instance is the assumption that Shallan and Adolin will be together the entire book because of this cover. I am not saying they won't. Just Way of Kings has two people on the cover (some think Kaladin, some think Eshonai) and Dalinar. For 90 percent of Way of Kings those individuals were apart or had not even met yet.

For Shallan and Adolin to be together is just a natural assumption coming from their marriage in Oathbringer, yet otherwise how would they meet? Arranging a rendezvous in Shadesmar is even harder to explain. Or only the very finale of the book is in Shadesmar. Does it end with Urithiru regaining its old glory?

8 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

edit: oh! oh! oh! Just had a thought! We also cannot say that because Adolin is holding a sword that it is not Maya! Because the UK artwork has Shallan with Pattern sword and she is in the cognitive realm. So if Shallan can manifest her blade while in the cognitive realm, then theoretically so can Adolin!

How sure can we be Shallan is in the CR?

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I'm pretty sure Petar said on Discord that they had the same brief as the UK cover artist. And it sounds like the brief was fairly, uh, brief. So I wouldn't put too much stock in the fine details. The artists definitely haven't read the whole book. The exact thing they're wearing, carrying, etc. could be 100% artist's interpretation. Heck, just look at how different that 4th artist's cover is.

Not that speculation isn't fun and worthwhile. :)

I'm honestly kind of expecting the US cover to be the same "scene", so that will be interesting. I SUSPECT Dragonsteel's thought process is:

  1. We don't have Shallan on a cover yet, and we NEED Shallan on a cover in the first 5 books. Can we assume she will work on the book 5 cover? Or should we include her now? Now seems wise.
  2. Shadesmar is a cool setting that'd be perfect for a cover. Shallan goes to Shadesmar in this book. Let's give the artists a vague description of a Shadesmar scene. (or maybe not even a specific scene)
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1 hour ago, Jofwu said:

I'm pretty sure Petar said on Discord that they had the same brief as the UK cover artist. And it sounds like the brief was fairly, uh, brief. So I wouldn't put too much stock in the fine details. The artists definitely haven't read the whole book. The exact thing they're wearing, carrying, etc. could be 100% artist's interpretation. Heck, just look at how different that 4th artist's cover is.

Not that speculation isn't fun and worthwhile. :)

I'm honestly kind of expecting the US cover to be the same "scene", so that will be interesting. I SUSPECT Dragonsteel's thought process is:

  1. We don't have Shallan on a cover yet, and we NEED Shallan on a cover in the first 5 books. Can we assume she will work on the book 5 cover? Or should we include her now? Now seems wise.
  2. Shadesmar is a cool setting that'd be perfect for a cover. Shallan goes to Shadesmar in this book. Let's give the artists a vague description of a Shadesmar scene. (or maybe not even a specific scene)

That's a good point, she hasn't been featured on a cover yet. They seem to like having a person on the cover of the book who is not the main flashback character of that particular book. It makes sense the artist get a briefing instead of prose (prose could change before publication anyways).

The Chinese covers of Brandon's work are my personal favorites because of the style, even though they are the least coherent to me. The Way of Kings cover is the Tower battle, but is going on with the Heralds(?) on the left side? Why does one on the top left have an eye(?) in their hair? Why is there a castle near the Tower? 

No Spoilers] The Chinese Cover of The Way of Kings (beautiful ...

 

 

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