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The Honor War


Ripheus23

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Since Vivenna taught the honorspren how to make swords like hers, do you foresee an evil honorspren army in the future of the cosmere? Wielding Nightbloods aplenty, en garde!

EDIT: also Kaladin will take up Devotion and reinterpret it as the Shard of Friendship because he has been friendzoned/friendstormed so much and will have to fight the Shard of Happiness to save the cosmere.

Edited by Ripheus23
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30 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

Since Vivenna taught the honorspren how to make swords like hers, do you foresee an evil honorspren army in the future of the cosmere? Wielding Nightbloods aplenty, en garde!

EDIT: also Kaladin will take up Devotion and reinterpret it as the Shard of Friendship because he has been friendzoned/friendstormed so much and will have to fight the Shard of Happiness to save the cosmere.

She did?  I must have entirely missed that, when did it happen?

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Honorspren already have wars.  "Their attempts to rule shadesmar..."  They would likely consider it dishonorable to attack opponents with a distinct military disadvantage.  Also they might have a problem with the large number of enemy invaders.

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Hell, I would frankly find it surprising if she actually knew how to create it, I've been operating under the (entirely unproven) assumption that Arsteel Yesteel or Vasher made it sometime post-Warbreaker.  

 

17 hours ago, Karger said:

Honorspren already have wars.  "Their attempts to rule shadesmar..."  They would likely consider it dishonorable to attack opponents with a distinct military disadvantage.  Also they might have a problem with the large number of enemy invaders.

That feels like a stretch to me.  If they were so devoted to that sort of Fairness interpretation of Honor (as opposed to the more Roshar-popular Honor=Oaths slant) I dont think they would be willing/able to engage in that sort of  war of Conquest at all.  If they would rather Not Fight than risk fighting an opponent with a tactical disadvantage, I figure they'd avoid open (and openly wasteful) warfare entirely and prefer settling that sort of thing via Dueling Champions or some ritualized alternative to War.    

Edited by Quantus
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39 minutes ago, Quantus said:

If they would rather Not Fight than risk fighting an opponent with a tactical disadvantage, I figure they'd avoid open (and openly wasteful) warfare entirely and prefer settling that sort of thing via Dueling Champions or some ritualized alternative to War.    

That was my interpretation as well.  Remember spren find actually killing to be abhorrent.  I find it likely that Honorspren attempts to rule were confined to intimidation of some kind.  More about posturing then fighting.

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This is all it says in the book. We don't know what knowledge exactly she can trade. Especially since I doubt Vivenna knows the details of how it was made. I'm positive Yesteel was involved in making it.

Quote

“Draw her carefully,” Azure said to Borea, the first mate, as Shallan approached. “Don’t pull her out all the way—she doesn’t know you.”

Borea wore a uniform like the captain’s, all stiff and no-nonsense. She undid a small latch on the Shardblade, eased it from its sheath a half inch, then drew in a sharp breath. “It … tingles.”

“She’s investigating you,” Azure said.

“It really is as you say,” Borea said. “A Shardblade that requires no spren—no enslavement. This is something else. How did you do it?”

“I will trade knowledge, per our deal, once we arrive.”

Borea snapped the Blade closed. “A good bond, human. We accept your offer.” Surprisingly, the woman held the weapon toward Azure, who took it.

 

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Yeah, she offers to trade information for information but she never says that she could teach the honorspren how to make swords like hers. Her trade could be as simple as telling them a little about Awakening and how it can be used to create weapons similar to Rosharan Shardblades without needing to start with a spren. It's not at all certain that Vivenna herself knows how to Awaken a sword on her own and since we already know Yesteel has the secret of it, Occam's Razor suggests that either he or Vasher did the Awakening.

And that's not even touching the many other flaws in your idea with a ten foot pole, assuming you meant it seriously and not as some sort of subtle troll.

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This whole post has Warbreaker spoilers:

Spoiler

Vivenna is an interesting character, the proper princess who controlled her emotions from a country which rejected the ways of the outside world, who hated Awakening, seeing it as an affront, who became a rogue freely expressing her emotions through her hair, travelling with a scholar turned warrior, and an apprentice Awakener to one of the masters of that skill. And in Oathbringer she is now an accomplished warrior, and possibly a bounty hunter, who readily and easily uses Awakening in battle, carries a sword made using that skill, and is on another world, casually talking to a person made out of Investiture. She no doubt is still growing, but I think we can all agree she has changed much, and how far she has already changed we don't know.

The annotations for Warbreaker mention she and Vasher are the two polar opposites in skill with Awakening, her untried and him an expert. It isn't outside of possibility for her skills during Nightblood to be only slightly less than Vasher if she has been training with him, and her royal blood giving her an extra advantage over others who are learning how to Awaken. And if she meets with Yesteel it isn't impossible for a skilled craftsman to share their secrets with someone who is now keen on learning, and who might be a relative of his if the royal line includes Returned blood related to him. That secret needs to ultimately be let out if there isn't going to be a bottleneck on making new blades. But mainly I think a skilled craftsman who is enthusiastic about their craft is likely to want to share what they know with someone they feel they can trust.

 

Maybe Vivenna won't learn how to make new blades, maybe she doesn't know, but there are just as many open possibilities if she has that skill herself, needing only breath or stormlight. If nothing else she likely has a much greater understanding of Awakening than most others now, if she has been travelling with Vasher and had enough contact with Yesteel for him to give her a blade, or if she stole one from him but had more interactions with either him or someone he trained. Either way, we shouldn't take end of Warbreaker Vivenna and assume her level of competence - just with a bit more practice - is the same as Oathbringer Vivenna. Azure is an accomplished Awakener who travelled with - and likely trained with - one of the most skilled Awakeners their planet has known - it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that she at least knows the fundamentals of making Type IV Bio-Chromatic entities, if not the full details.

 

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10 hours ago, Weltall said:

Yeah, she offers to trade information for information but she never says that she could teach the honorspren how to make swords like hers. Her trade could be as simple as telling them a little about Awakening and how it can be used to create weapons similar to Rosharan Shardblades without needing to start with a spren. It's not at all certain that Vivenna herself knows how to Awaken a sword on her own and since we already know Yesteel has the secret of it, Occam's Razor suggests that either he or Vasher did the Awakening.

And that's not even touching the many other flaws in your idea with a ten foot pole, assuming you meant it seriously and not as some sort of subtle troll.

Exactly this.

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The dishonorspren idea was just a crazy twist-enemy idea. More generally, I feel like spren factions will be important to the general cosmere storyline.

Kaladin taking the Shard of Friendship, that was just flippancy. Although it would be interesting to see how Kaladin handled a Shard like Devotion.

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On 9/5/2019 at 0:21 AM, Ripheus23 said:

Since Vivenna taught the honorspren how to make swords like hers, do you foresee an evil honorspren army in the future of the cosmere? Wielding Nightbloods aplenty, en garde!

EDIT: also Kaladin will take up Devotion and reinterpret it as the Shard of Friendship because he has been friendzoned/friendstormed so much and will have to fight the Shard of Happiness to save the cosmere.

What does friendstormed mean ?

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14 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

What does friendstormed mean ?

It means more than a zone, it's a storm. He's drowning in real and potential friendship. Venli is the enemy, Lift will never be legal, Jasnah doesn't wanna, yadayada, Adolin and Shallan are married, Tien is dead AND his brother, Odium doesn't wanna, Cultivation's gonna marry Dalinar and Navani, hell, Kaladin probably can't even, uh, satisfy himself, he probably thinks "not valiant enough, gotta contain it until it explodes" during the Fifth Ideal.

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