+Q10fanatic Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 What does it even mean to "not change" realmatically? Yoour spiritual self already doesn't change, right? Kaladin is good with a spear because he will be good with a spear. So maybe Cultivation took her spiritual self and hardened it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Harrycrapper Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Karger said: Brandon said it was Lift's interlude if I remember correctly. I listened to the reading last night while driving, he most definitely said it was an interlude. I don't think she had many if any viewpoints in OB either, she was mostly seen through other characters like Dalinar and Szeth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said: I listened to the reading last night while driving, he most definitely said it was an interlude. I don't think she had many if any viewpoints in OB either, she was mostly seen through other characters like Dalinar and Szeth. Thank you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Karger said: About a third of what I said are not even theories so I am not sure this makes sense but OK. If that is how you wish to take it, that is your prerogative. 14 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said: What does it even mean to "not change" realmatically? Yoour spiritual self already doesn't change, right? Kaladin is good with a spear because he will be good with a spear. So maybe Cultivation took her spiritual self and hardened it? Hmmmm. Interesting. Could be. Or maybe she did it to her cognitive self. Then the spiritual self could remain the same, the physical change, and since Lift is more in the cognitive that she can touch Wyndle, her sense of self still has not changed. Edited March 6, 2020 by Pathfinder 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted March 6, 2020 Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said: What does it even mean to "not change" realmatically? Yoour spiritual self already doesn't change, right? Kaladin is good with a spear because he will be good with a spear. So maybe Cultivation took her spiritual self and hardened it? No your spiritual self can and does change. As you age for example your spiritual self changes to reflect that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 13 hours ago, Gilphon said: Also- I don't blame Cultivation for not interpreting what Lift asked for as 'I want immortality'. For all we know Lift may be immortal. 10 hours ago, Karger said: Something else could be going on but it does seem like the obvious implication. King Overlooked Stone FTW! There is a war going on. Bridge 4 is the core of the Windrunners. Special reasons for absences of soldiers during a war are not needed. 21 hours ago, Isilel said: So, what's her "curse"? The inability to breathe in Stormlight coupled with the necessity to make it metabolically. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desi_sparta Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 But Lift can breathe stormlight. She does it at the end of 3rd book when Dalinar opens up Honor's perpendicularity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, desi_sparta said: But Lift can breathe stormlight. She does it at the end of 3rd book when Dalinar opens up Honor's perpendicularity. Even after the perpendicularity is open, lift still asks dalinar where she can get food. I think we also have a WoB confirming that she cannot breath in stormlight. She has to metabolize it. Edit: found the scene. This is after dalinar brought together the realms and infused all the gemstones Oathbringer page 1143 “Lift, I believe I already gave you an order. Take the assassin and get me that ruby. Together, we hold this city until Renarin returns with troops. Any questions?” “Um…” Lift said. “Could you maybe … tell me where to get something to eat…?” Dalinar glanced at her. Something to eat? “There … should be a supply dump just inside the wall.” “Thanks!” Dalinar sighed, then started walking toward the water. Edited March 7, 2020 by Pathfinder 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 18 hours ago, Q10fanatic said: What does it even mean to "not change" realmatically? Whatever has suited Cultivation. Well, almost anything. The wish is too vague. 18 hours ago, Q10fanatic said: Yoour spiritual self already doesn't change, right? Kaladin is good with a spear because he will be good with a spear. So maybe Cultivation took her spiritual self and hardened it? Unless you wanted to test it by soulcasting her, we don't know. For all we know Cultivation intends her to be a weapon to capture Yelig-Nar by making her immune to being converted to a gem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilphon Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 So, weird things about Lift: She can't breath in Stormlight She can turn nutrition into Investiture She can see into the cognitive realm, and touch spren She can invade the Stormfather vision The first two and last two can probably be unified in single affects, but neither looks like a great fit for what she asked for. It's possible to suggest that Cultivation fulfilled her wish by monkeying with her Cognitive Aspect in some way, and the unusual way her collects Investiture is her price. But that's unsatisfying to me; for Dalinar and Taravangian, the other two times Cultivation got directly involved, the Boon and the Curse are essentially the same effect; an effect that can be interpreted as either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your perspective. So it really feels like we should be able to somehow condense all of Lift's weirdness into a single thing. But I'm just not seeing how we could do that. 14 hours ago, Oltux72 said: For all we know Lift may be immortal. Well, no, that's the entire thing she's struggling with in this chapter. She's aging; she's going through puberty, and she's been forced to admit that to herself. So she mostly certainly did not get the kind of immortality she wanted; she's not ageless. I guess theoretically she could have some other form of immortality- certainly as a Radiant with Regrowth killing her would be difficult- but it's even more of a stretch for Cultivation to have interpreted her wish like that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 16 hours ago, Oltux72 said: There is a war going on. Bridge 4 is the core of the Windrunners. Special reasons for absences of soldiers during a war are not needed. Rock is not yet a full Windrunner. If he has something he needs to do and has not bonded a spren he will have to do it has a human with no powers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 9 hours ago, Gilphon said: So, weird things about Lift: She can't breath in Stormlight She can turn nutrition into Investiture She can see into the cognitive realm, and touch spren She can invade the Stormfather vision The first two and last two can probably be unified in single affects, but neither looks like a great fit for what she asked for. If you look at it from the right angle, it is what she asked for. Stormlight is not hers, it is the Stormfather's or Honor's. So it cannot get into her. Thus she stays herself unchanged to something else. One way to misunderstand her is to say that her Identity is unchangable. (Sel) Spoiler I would suggest that if you tried to Forge her, nothing would happen. 9 hours ago, Gilphon said: She's aging; she's going through puberty, and she's been forced to admit that to herself. She is maturing. Cultivation would not, indeed probably cannot, make something or somebody who cannot reproduce. But after that stage will have been reached, all bets are open. Indeed Lift may be quite an investment. To lose her just because your timing is off by a few decades would be inconvinient. 9 hours ago, Gilphon said: So she mostly certainly did not get the kind of immortality she wanted; she's not ageless. I guess theoretically she could have some other form of immortality- certainly as a Radiant with Regrowth killing her would be difficult- but it's even more of a stretch for Cultivation to have interpreted her wish like that. Interpreting her wish is probably to nicely put. Finding an interpretaton useful to Cultivation and interpretable to be compatible with the wish as seen under the aspect of cultivating somebody is likely to come closer. 7 hours ago, Karger said: Rock is not yet a full Windrunner. If he has something he needs to do and has not bonded a spren he will have to do it has a human with no powers. He is still Bridge 4 and they need their cook. There is a war going on. They are on the front lines or, worse, behind them. They are taking casualties. Rock's absence need not be explained with a reason that is centered on Rock. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 Maybe the entire request should be considered. I'm talking about the little preface, "When everything else is going wrong, […]). Maybe Lift's boon of not becoming someone else only kicks in during times of extreme duress, or only when Odium's influence is around, or even only that one time when the Unmade couldn't influence her. It's also possible that Cultivation is, as Lift accused, a liar. Or at least didn't give Lift what she asked for. Regardless, it would seem antithetical to Cultivation's presumed Intent to make something that can't change. As far as those saying that her Spirit or Identity may not be capable of changing... she said a Knight's Radiant Ideal. I'd say that event, and the paradigm shifts it took to get to that point, probably altered her Spirit Web. The very idea that she is, to some extent, accepting that her perceived identity (being ageless) was misguided is proof that her Spiritual sense of self is adapting and aligning with her reality. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platnumkid Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 On 3/7/2020 at 3:00 AM, desi_sparta said: But Lift can breathe stormlight. She does it at the end of 3rd book when Dalinar opens up Honor's perpendicularity. I always assumed she *COULD* breathe in stormlight just didn't because she never learned how, and just fell back on the food. Probably she started doing it unconsciously when she was younger and just did it now because she is so accustom to it. Turns out we have a WOB that she can not breathe in stormlight at all: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/32/#e8073 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 5, 2020 Report Share Posted April 5, 2020 On 10/21/2019 at 1:16 PM, MrGgreen said: See guys, nothing to be afraid of, we can trap Odium's spren, if they were to chase us there.". Or maybe he is hopping to control or banish them somehow? If they can force travel rather then just allow it they could get rid of the fused easily. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storyspren Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 Are we entirely sure Lift isn’t the Nightwatcher herself with some memories altered Dalinar style? Maybe the Nightwatcher asked Cultivation for a boon? Ok that’s crazy. But are we sure of her backstory? Lift is the most heavily altered human amongst everyone touched by Cultivation. Cultivation, known to alter memories. Her backstory before her encounter with Cultivation is up for grabs as far as I’m concerned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Harrycrapper Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, Storyspren said: Are we entirely sure Lift isn’t the Nightwatcher herself with some memories altered Dalinar style? Maybe the Nightwatcher asked Cultivation for a boon? Ok that’s crazy. But are we sure of her backstory? Lift is the most heavily altered human amongst everyone touched by Cultivation. Cultivation, known to alter memories. Her backstory before her encounter with Cultivation is up for grabs as far as I’m concerned. There's a number of reasons that's extremely unlikely, foremost being that Lift has bonded a Radiant Spren. Cultivation is powerful, but I doubt she could transform an entity as ancient as the Nightwatcher into a human so effectively that said human could form a Nahel Bond and share their sapience with a Radiant Spren. Also, Lift is aproximately thirteen years old and the Nightwatcher scene with Dalinar was less than ten years before her interlude in WoR(can't remember the exact timing). I also question the motive/strategy of making one of the three Bondsmith Spren into a human, limiting the maximum amount of Bondsmiths to two. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcaroRibeiro Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 You can now sign his newsletter to get a preview of half of the first chapter of RoW https://www.brandonsanderson.com/#signupform 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiberty Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 5 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said: You can now sign his newsletter to get a preview of half of the first chapter of RoW https://www.brandonsanderson.com/#signupform I believe that that is the full chapter, which has been in the most recent newsletter since November. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gderu Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said: I believe that that is the full chapter, which has been in the most recent newsletter since November. I think I'm already signed for his newsletter, but I haven't gotten it yet. Is it already released? Edited July 7, 2020 by Gderu 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcaroRibeiro Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 8 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said: I believe that that is the full chapter, which has been in the most recent newsletter since November. Oh, you might be right. I was thinking the later half of the chapter (as we already have the first half) But maybe it's something new 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiberty Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said: Oh, you might be right. I was thinking the later half of the chapter (as we already have the first half) But maybe it's something new Yep. Chapter 1 was in the November newsletter, and something new will be sent today. @Gderu, the new newsletter hasn't been sent, but you are supposed to get the most recent one when you sign up. Did you get the confirmation email? Edited July 7, 2020 by ChickenLiberty 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcaroRibeiro Posted July 7, 2020 Report Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said: Yep. Chapter 1 was in the November newsletter, and something new will be sent today. @Gderu, the new newsletter hasn't been sent, but you are supposed to get the most recent one when you sign up. Did you get the confirmation email? It is a Syl's interlude Edited July 7, 2020 by IcaroRibeiro 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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