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Stormlight 4 Outline Speculation

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3 hours ago, Winds Alight said:

Yeah. These refugees are from Herdaz. No mention of Kholinar at all. Also, wasn't this a reading from the first chapter? So we have absolutely no idea where Kaladin will be later on.

It's coming from the first time Brandon read that passage. See the final line here, after the reading: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/386/#e12628 As others have said, he simply mentioned that Kaladin shows up after this scene.

The passage saw a pretty major rewrite between versions, so we're working under the assumption that this is still true. Seems like a safe assumption though. No reason to assume something as big as "Kaladin shows up here in the story" would have changed. :)

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30 minutes ago, The Ryshadium said:

Don't hate me for this guys.....For some reason I'm a huge fan of the idea of a Kaladin and Venli romance so I want them to be in the same group.

I don't hate you but Venli just lost her husband(once-mate but I am adjusting my terminology for human terms) like a year ago.

My thoughts are as follows. 

Bold is a probably

Italics is a maybe

Underlined is an Unlikely

First group(I am going to call them team Offense): 

  • This team will be the largest one and will include Kaladin as a major POV.  This book will feature him prominently and as a Windrunner he is a front line character. You can't have a hero siting in a tower contemplating the universe.  Kaladin is also at his best as a character when given high stakes missions, visceral examples, choices, and consequences.  He is going to need a support team as well as other characters to play off against. 
  • I don't see Szeth working in that capacity.  He has book 5 stuff to do and he is too useful as a political tool to send off into danger(the fact then when he saw frog the storming assassin in white jumps is kind of amazing).  He is also Dalinar's only Skybreaker and he will want to keep Szeth around to train more Skybreakers in his Radiant school(this school needs a name BTW). 
  • Adolin is great for this kind of thing and it would give him an opportunity to figure stuff out(bring back Maya and become a lifebearer) but as a highprince I am not sure he can wander around Roshar on missions.
  • Shallan is also great at this and it would give him some time to complete her arc however I am hopping for some more interactions with Jasnah and the ghostbloods and those can't happen in the field.
  • Renarian would defiantly work but he seems to be going in a more scholarly direction(plus Jasnah is still a bit unsure about him).
  • Jasnah, Dalinar, and Navani, all obviously can't go(at least in a realistic world) and I don't think the Heralds are options either.
  • I am thinking that the mystery Dustbringer would be excellent for this kind of thing(they could learn about responsibility and loyalty from Kaladin while following their own Dustbringer path).
  • Kaladin would be stupid not to bring at least one squire with him wherever he goes.  Dalinar will probably order him to. It is not like they can do anything remotely as useful anywhere else.
  • Lift is way too young and she will be hanging out around unnamed Radiant school.
  • An eventual Venli team up is both awesome and inevitable(which makes me suspicious as this is Sanderson) but in the mean time I am putting her down.
  • Lirin would be a good final pick.  The same goes for Rock(who should have bonded a spren at this point).

PS

 

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13 hours ago, The Ryshadium said:

Don't hate me for this guys.....For some reason I'm a huge fan of the idea of a Kaladin and Venli romance so I want them to be in the same group.

I'm not sure about a romance but I'd like to also see them in the same group!

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I think there is an old WoB that says Rock will have a POV section eventually. I think this would be a great fit for that. As such I’ll say that he is Group 2. 

I agree with OP about Kaladin, Adolin, Venli, Moash in group 1. I think Szeth might be likely, but I doubt Brandon wants to drop the interaction between Adolin and Shallan in this book, so I suspect she will be group 1 too. But what of Szeth? I propose that he goes with Rock, probably as a KR reinforcement. That makes sense from another perspective too: Vivenna was heading there as well. Thus, we will get a confrontation between her and Nightblood in this book. 

Group 3 is Dalinar and Jasnah. Navani will probably get a POV here somewhere too, for good measure. 

Also, will there be an Interlude novella? In that case, I am going to throw in Nale as a candidate. That would be utterly fascinating. Ash, Taln, Vasher, Rysn and Lift are other possibilities. Mraize would be great too.

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14 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Also, will there be an Interlude novella? In that case, I am going to throw in Nale as a candidate. That would be utterly fascinating. Ash, Taln, Vasher, Rysn and Lift are other possibilities. Mraize would be great too.

Those are some good possibilities. I have wondered who the main interlude character would be as well. It seems like each of the main interlude has been some sort of antagonist. Or generally misunderstood to most people. So Nale could be a good perspective. My other guesses would be Moash or Taravangian. Though both of them have had POVs outside of interludes so maybe not. 

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The Interlude novella's main character has also traditionally been significant in the following book and given the next book is Willshaper and Singer oriented that pattern looks like it'll maintain into book 4. So its likely that it'll feature someone who's prominent in book 5, which is a big deal. Nale and Vasher both make sense to me on that front

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1 hour ago, Kon-Tiki said:

The Interlude novella's main character has also traditionally been significant in the following book and given the next book is Willshaper and Singer oriented that pattern looks like it'll maintain into book 4. So its likely that it'll feature someone who's prominent in book 5, which is a big deal. Nale and Vasher both make sense to me on that front

I don't think a Herald would work and Vasher's backstory make him complicated if we want Stormlight to be largely self contained.

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1 hour ago, Karger said:

I don't think a Herald would work

Why wouldn't a Herald work? We have had both a Taln POV and an Ash POV so far.

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54 minutes ago, ChickenLiberty said:

Why wouldn't a Herald work? We have had both a Taln POV and an Ash POV so far.

But if we want to keep that up for extended periods of time we are going to have to be OK with large Cosmere and Roshar info dumps.  Those two POVs were largely dominated by them being crazy.  Nale is far more lucid(if crazy in his own way) so having him as a POV would get problematic.

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Posted (edited)

The Heralds (namely Taln and Ash) will get their time in the back five, probably other Heralds too with smaller roles.

 

I've been thinking about this non-stop so, current take:

Group one:
1. Kaladin - group 1a)
2. Adolin - group 1a)
3. Szeth (minor POVs) - group 1a)
4. Renarin (minor POVs) - group 1a)
5. Venli - group 1b)

--> Primary plotline: Fight the Desolation!

Group two:
1. Rock
2. Shallan

--> Secondary plotline: What's going on in the Peaks?

Group three:
1. Dalinar
2. Navani

--> Tertiary plotline: Getting Taln and Ash back on track! They also will have insight on how Jasnah copes as queen and how they're trying to make Urithiru a safe haven for refugees.

Groups 2 + 3 could swap roles easily.
Originally, group one was four people and group two three. My guess is that Adolin was supposed to be group two but Brandon decided he'd better work in group one.

Jasnah doesn't have a main role here, just as Lift doesn't. They're around, they probably will have small POV chapter (like during the OB climax), but they won't be first line of defense.
I don't have Lirin listed as well even though he has a POV in the very first chapter (if Brandon doesn't scrap that). But having one POV in the entire book doesn't make for a main character, and I can't imagine Lirin is going to stick around with group one through the whole book and fight Desolations. He's more likely going to stay in Hearthstone.

Edited by Winds Alight
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9 hours ago, Karger said:

But if we want to keep that up for extended periods of time we are going to have to be OK with large Cosmere and Roshar info dumps.  Those two POVs were largely dominated by them being crazy.  Nale is far more lucid(if crazy in his own way) so having him as a POV would get problematic.

I don't think we necessarily -have- to go that route with a Herald POV.  The Heralds aren't going to necessarily be thinking or talking about their past.  They seem to be either too crazy (Taln) or too unwilling (everyone else) to talk about it.  I'm not saying its necessarily likely, but they could have POVs without revealing too much in terms of Roshar history or the Cosmere.  I personally prefer the Heralds and think a POV from them is more likely than a Vasher or Vivenna POV.  Not that I dislike either of those characters, but I don't want Warbreaker becoming too much a part of Stormlight Archive.  It's a cool easter egg when they're relatively minor characters and if they build up as part of the overall plot of Roshar I'm OK with them taking a bigger role over time.  I don't want them to jump in and continue their plots from Warbreaker just with a new background.

 

On 8/29/2019 at 3:12 AM, Toaster Retribution said:

I think there is an old WoB that says Rock will have a POV section eventually. I think this would be a great fit for that. As such I’ll say that he is Group 2. 

I agree with OP about Kaladin, Adolin, Venli, Moash in group 1. I think Szeth might be likely, but I doubt Brandon wants to drop the interaction between Adolin and Shallan in this book, so I suspect she will be group 1 too. But what of Szeth? I propose that he goes with Rock, probably as a KR reinforcement. That makes sense from another perspective too: Vivenna was heading there as well. Thus, we will get a confrontation between her and Nightblood in this book. 

Group 3 is Dalinar and Jasnah. Navani will probably get a POV here somewhere too, for good measure. 

Also, will there be an Interlude novella? In that case, I am going to throw in Nale as a candidate. That would be utterly fascinating. Ash, Taln, Vasher, Rysn and Lift are other possibilities. Mraize would be great too.

From my perspective, I split up Adolin/Shallan/Kaladin because I felt like having the three of them together again on what will probably be another desperate undercover mission against heavy odds would be sort of a rehash of OB.  I do think Adolin and Shallan will have their interactions in the early part of the book as things get going, but after that everyone will be too busy doing what needs to be done for much else.  I also think Shallan has several of her own goals (Ghostbloods, her family, etc) that will lead her in a different direction than the main group.  Just my two cents though, who knows what will actually happen.  

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15 minutes ago, agrabes said:

I don't think we necessarily -have- to go that route with a Herald POV.  The Heralds aren't going to necessarily be thinking or talking about their past.  They seem to be either too crazy (Taln) or too unwilling (everyone else) to talk about it.  I'm not saying its necessarily likely, but they could have POVs without revealing too much in terms of Roshar history or the Cosmere.  I personally prefer the Heralds and think a POV from them is more likely than a Vasher or Vivenna POV.  Not that I dislike either of those characters, but I don't want Warbreaker becoming too much a part of Stormlight Archive.  It's a cool easter egg when they're relatively minor characters and if they build up as part of the overall plot of Roshar I'm OK with them taking a bigger role over time.  I don't want them to jump in and continue their plots from Warbreaker just with a new background.

I don't think Vasher or Vivvenna are likely either. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Interlude novella isn't necessarily backstory. In fact it hasn't been at all so far

Edited by Kon-Tiki
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I think Venli is in group 2 for two main reasons.

1 - acording to the newest update all of group 2 is finished and Brandon is considering which character fits the flashbacks better before writing then. Perhaps he wrote all Venli POVs to decide which flashback character fits better with the current day storyline.

2 - Brandon said, in another update, that RoW structure would be more similar to WoK than WoR or OB. He also said that in WoK Kaladin storyline was one group and Dalinar storyline was a diferent group. So same location may not mean the same group.

 

Group 1 - Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah, Adolin and another character, perhaps a new POV. I personaly would like to know more about the other Highprinces.

Group 2 - Venli and Leshwi or a new Fused.

Group 3 - Dalinar and Navani.

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1 hour ago, lccaseiro58 said:

Group 1 - Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah, Adolin and another character, perhaps a new POV. I personaly would like to know more about the other Highprinces.

I think Jasnah stays in Urithiru. She has to rule, and investigate Taln. Maybe hunt Mraize as well for good measure. But I doubt that she goes out into the field until maybe the climax.

And I would love a Highprince POV. That sounds more like an Interlude though. Maybe one from Aladar when he is defending some half-important location from Voidbringers?

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3 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I think Jasnah stays in Urithiru. She has to rule, and investigate Taln. Maybe hunt Mraize as well for good measure. But I doubt that she goes out into the field until maybe the climax.

I disagree, Alethkar is an occupied state and i don't see the alethi highprinces staying in Urithiru. They will take their armies to recover their lands. Someone will have to lead and rule the highprinces and that is the queen's role.

If Jasnah was to stay in Urithiru researching the heralds and hunting the ghostbloods, i don't see the point of her becoming queen of Alethkar.

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34 minutes ago, lccaseiro58 said:

I disagree, Alethkar is an occupied state and i don't see the alethi highprinces staying in Urithiru. They will take their armies to recover their lands. Someone will have to lead and rule the highprinces and that is the queen's role.

If Jasnah was to stay in Urithiru researching the heralds and hunting the ghostbloods, i don't see the point of her becoming queen of Alethkar.

So is she going to be an awesome queen on horseback?

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7 minutes ago, Karger said:

So is she going to be an awesome queen on horseback?

No, she will be in strategy meetings and maintaining the highprinces in check. Gavilar was in the front lines when uniting Alethkar and Elhokar was in the Shattered Plains not Kholinar.

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1 hour ago, lccaseiro58 said:

I disagree, Alethkar is an occupied state and i don't see the alethi highprinces staying in Urithiru. They will take their armies to recover their lands. Someone will have to lead and rule the highprinces and that is the queen's role.

If Jasnah was to stay in Urithiru researching the heralds and hunting the ghostbloods, i don't see the point of her becoming queen of Alethkar.

If they are marching somewhere with an army, yes, she will probably join. But not otherwise. Partially because she does need to investigate the Heralds. Partially because they cant risk losing another monarch so quickly.

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5 hours ago, lccaseiro58 said:

No, she will be in strategy meetings and maintaining the highprinces in check. Gavilar was in the front lines when uniting Alethkar and Elhokar was in the Shattered Plains not Kholinar.

I agree she will most likely be at whatever forward command center they set up.  Where that is will depend on how the war has been going in the last year.

 

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This is all very intriguing. It sure sounds like Gavilar is talking about taking bonded spren off-world, but he never managed to really bond with the Stormfather himself, nor to find any other budding Radiants? Ironically, given that Jasnah was becoming one under his ery nose. IIRC, Braize is also described as dangerous in Arcanum Unbounded, so it is rather odd that humans managed to travel there and back through Shadesmar without getting murdered by the Odium spren. Might he have been talking about dead shardblades, maybe? There is a WoB that they hadn't been ever taken to another major shardworld, and maybe Gavilar wanted to do so, for some reason? To trade them for something, maybe?

And was he talking to Nale and Kalak, who were also called "ambassadors from the west" in the WoR prologue from Jasnah's PoV? Which would be quite strange, because there they were at the very least aware of  and complicit in the impending/on-going assassination, if not actively involved. Did Gavilar know who he was speaking to, but was misled as to their motives? Did they infiltrate his organization without him being the wiser, in order to better hinder him? Or were the Heralds  trailing and spying on some genuine associates of Gavilar from the west with whom he was talking in this scene? 

And are all those celebrated scholars and artifabrians now trapped in the occupied Alethkar? Our Heroes really need to get hold of them!

All in all, it seems that Gavilar's real goals were more complex than what Amaram thought they were.  I somehow don't think that supremacy of Vorinism was really on the king's agenda. I am also very curious why he chose to involve Amaram and Aesudan - though, again, apparently not as deeply as they believed, but not Navani and Jasnah?

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Sorry, posted in the wrong thread.

But since I am here - IMHO, it makes no sense for Alethi in exile to attack Alethkar until they figure out how to stop or at least significantly slow the Fused re-incarnation carroussel. And they need to develop fabrial weapons that would give even normal soldiers a chance against the Fused. The Radiants are very much outnumbered and not properly trained, after all, and even back in the day when this wasn't the case, they couldn't protect civilization against being thoroughly trashed during the Desolations. In order to prevail, this time the anti-Odium side needs to employ new strategies, since Radiants against the Fused with everybody else being cannon fodder didn't really work out in the past.

Edited by Isilel
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6 hours ago, Isilel said:

But since I am here - IMHO, it makes no sense for Alethi in exile to attack Alethkar until they figure out how to stop or at least significantly slow the Fused re-incarnation carroussel

Most of the enemies the face will not be fused they will probably be warform parshmen.  It is important to recapture productive lands for economic reasons not just military ones.  Also it may become a political necessity.

6 hours ago, Isilel said:

And they need to develop fabrial weapons that would give even normal soldiers a chance against the Fused. The Radiants are very much outnumbered and not properly trained, after all, and even back in the day when this wasn't the case, they couldn't protect civilization against being thoroughly trashed during the Desolations

True but their soldiers are much more proficient then the average parshmen who have only a year or two of sentience.  Human armies will be better trained led and organized at the lower levels which the fused might not have the numbers to supervise closely in their own armies.

6 hours ago, Isilel said:

In order to prevail, this time the anti-Odium side needs to employ new strategies, since Radiants against the Fused with everybody else being cannon fodder didn't really work out in the past.

This is nothing like the past but I agree that newer strategies will be helpful.

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I would like to see Jasnah more involved in the story and interact with characters she has not had much interaction with. So seeing her in the same team as Kaladin would be fun. Also I think the trio from the last book needs to be broken up for this next book. 

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I think for:

Group 1

Kaladin

Shallan

Venli

Rlain

Lirin

The reasoning is Shallan will use illusions to allow Kaladin to infiltrate. Lirin will be their point of contact. Rlain will begin working within the parsh to try and bring them to the human's side, and Rlain will result in contact with Venli. At least that is my theory

 

Group 2

Renarin

Jasnah

The reasoning is because I think they will work together to figure out what is the situation with his spren. I would also be fine with this being Group 3 instead, as not too much can be delved into these two till the back 5 of the series, as per Brandon

 

Group 3

Navani

Dalinar

The reasoning is I think Navani and Dalinar will work together trying to figure out Urithiru to revive the Sibling. Alternatively Dalinar and Adolin to work together reviving Maya. 

 

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