Jofwu

Stormlight 4 Outline Speculation

78 posts in this topic

Anyone interesting in some updated speculation on the Stormlight 4 outline? Here's the visual outline from Brandon's latest update:

tcE4p4Q.png

I'm sticking to my guns from my original speculation when Brandon revealed the split into three arcs, more or less.

Brandon has said that Dalinar's role will be somewhat reduced in book 4, and that makes me strongly suspect that he's one of the two characters in Group Three. I'm guessing that Dalinar will be busy with politics in this book. His main role will be continuing to develop/unite the Coalition and to continue establishing the reformed Knights Radiant. He'll be in Urithiru naturally.

So the next question is who might Dalinar be paired with? It has to be someone with a story to tell in Urithiru. I've seen Szeth proposed, and that makes sense. But I'm left imagining Szeth just following Dalinar around while he attends meetings, and I have a hard time seeing this as particularly compelling. Meanwhile, I strongly suspect that we need to advance the subplot concerning Urithiru itself in book 4. We know the city is a giant fabrial in some sense, and we know from Pattern that there's something odd going on in Shadesmar around the city. So you need someone who knows about fabrials and you need someone who can enter Shadesmar. It's got to be Jasnah. There's perhaps an argument to be made for Shallan, with Navani around for fabrial support... But Shallan has other things going for her, and I think Jasnah is a much better fit. Besides, she's the Queen of Alethkar now. She doesn't have time to be roaming Roshar on adventures. She's going to be in the center of the politics. In the center of the Alethi refugees in Urithiru. Digging into Urithiru is going to involve the Sibling, so it makes sense to have Jasnah paired with our first Bondsmith as well. And of course this let's Navani be around her husband while she assists Jasnah with the Urithiru business. This all fits really nicely, the way I see it.

Group Three: Dalinar and Jasnah

Next I'm going to follow the popular opinion and agree that Group One is all about the primary conflict between humans and singers in/around Alethkar. We've received two preview excerpts so far: one where Kaladin makes an appearance in Hearthstone and one of Venli in Kholinar. You might argue that these locations are quite distant, so maybe we're dealing with two separate groups here. However, we know that these scenes are almost certainly coming from early on in the book. I'm guessing something will bring them closer together by the end of Part 1.

We also know from this recent update that the Primary Plot will primarily feature three characters. I don't see anything obvious role for Shallan to fulfill here, so I'm going to sit her aside. Who's left? We've got Szeth, Renarin, and Lift as our other "main characters." (I'm leaving Ash and Taln out here because I reeeealy don't think we're going to see them step up yet.) We've also got Adolin as a sort of secondary main character. My money is on Szeth. We've never really seen a whole lot from this dude. A few interludes in TwoK. A few chapters in Oathbringer. And he's gone through so many changes through all this. We really need a chance to understand who Szeth is before we launch into "his book" next. He's certainly the perfect person for... whatever job Kaladin is up to sneaking around in northern Alethkar. And I'm betting we'll see some sword-nimi development as well. Brandon's surely going to double down on the Cosmere significance that we saw in Oathbringer.

So who's our 4th and 5th characters in this group? Renarin and Lift could work... But I'm betting we see Lift take a back again. She doesn't have any essential role to play in the current story and she's young. She's going to be in Dalinar's newly established Hogwarts, injecting some of her humor in the Urithiru plots on occasion. Interacting with the Azish who are around. Renarin has been set up as a scholar so I don't know what he'd be doing out there. My money is on Adolin and Moash. Adolin and Kaladin have so much chemistry, so it just makes sense to put them together. He's a Highprince, so it makes sense for him to be out taking action to retake his homeland. And it makes sense for Moash to be wherever Kaladin is. And it makes sense that he'd end up where Venli is.

Group One: Kaladin, Venli, Szeth, Adolin, and Moash

So what about Shallan? She's the biggest gaping hole so far. The "what" with Shallan is obvious. She's part of the Ghostbloods. This is the key plot that she's involved in, and the most interesting. Oathbringer didn't feature much Ghostblood activity after Part 1, so it only makes sense that we're going to dive in deep on book 4. And the Ghostbloods want her to investigate Sja-anat.

Oh lookie. Of the "ten primary characters" there's only one I haven't really found a place for so far, and he has a direct connection to Sja-anat of his own: Renarin. Now, Renarin is a really mysterious character, and I don't think he's going to fully shine until books 6-10. So I'm not supposing that we're going to walk away from book 4 with all of Renarin's mysteries uncovered. I simply thing he's a solid choice if you need someone to give this Unmade a visit.

I'm not entirely sure why Dalinar and Jasnah would be comfortable sending these two off to single-handedly. I skeptical Shallan will reveal her Ghostblood mission to begin with. So how does this happen? Here's my guess. Another huge story element that Oathbringer uncovered a few times was the fact that weird things are going on in the Horneater Peaks. We've had a time jump. The Horneater Peaks are in the middle Jah Keved, so this is a HUGE vulnerability for the Coalition. Meanwhile you've got Rock who probably needs to pick up his responsibility and go take back his homeland. This is the key. Dalinar and company realize they need to investigate the Horneater Peaks. They need a team to go in, do some careful recon, and see if there's anything that can be done to secure the region. What do you do? You call Bridge Four. This gives a place for Brandon to insert several Bridge Four characters into the story without trying to cram all of them around Kaladin's activities. It gives Rock a chance to return home. It makes Dalinar/Jasnah/Navani/Adolin more comfortable with Shallan going along. (She'll probably have Ishnah, Vathah, and maybe some others with her as well) Shallan doesn't have to reveal anything. She just goes along and (either intentionally or by mistake) ends up interacting with Sja-anat, who has moved into the neighborhood now that Kholinar is secure.

Group Two: Shallan and Renarin

I'm guessing that Adolin or Szeth were originally planned to be with this second group, and then Brandon just realized the third major character didn't really need to be there, and probably could have a more interesting role elsewhere.

---

So there's my predictions. Anyone else want to take a swing? :)

8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I agree that Kaladin is most certainly group one, same as Dalinar likely will be group three. I'm inclined to agree with you on Jasnah being group three as well since she (likely) knows so much about All Things Roshar and the Cosmere in general that it would be hard to have lots of viewpoints from her while at the same time keeping things secret we're not supposed to know at this point.

I tried to think about this a bit as well and currently I believe the following would make sense:

Group one:
1. Kaladin
2. Adolin
3. Shallan
4. Venli
5. Lirin? (He does have a POV in the first chapter after all) (Not Moash, puhlease not Moash! Couldn't he die in a tragic accident between books?)

Group two:
1. Jasnah
2. Renarin
--> Trying to figure out the nature of Renarin and Glys' bond

Group three:
1. Dalinar
2. Szeth

One could switch groups 2 & 3 here, depending on the weight of the plotlines.

Where would Lift fit in? She's still rather young, so she might be stepping back for a while?

On the other hand:
I can hardly imagine Venli being with the other characters in group one? How would that work? Did they officially team up between books? It reads as if the members of each group will be in the same place most of the time.
So, while I believe it would make sense if Venli is in group one (it's her book after all!) it would make more sense if she were in separate group from the "main five". So Venli in group two? With whom? She can't possibly be group 3. And I can hardly imagine her not being present in part five.

Edited by Winds Alight
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Winds Alight said:

5. Lirin? (He does have a POV in the first chapter after all) (Not Moash, puhlease not Moash! Couldn't he die in a tragic accident between books?)

It's gotta be Moash :ph34r:

1 hour ago, Winds Alight said:

I can hardly imagine Venli being with the other characters in group one? How would that work? Did they officially team up between books? It reads as if the members of each group will be in the same place most of the time.

Alethkar is a place. It makes perfect sense to me 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Inky said:

Alethkar is a place. It makes perfect sense to me 

So group one could be divided into subgroups 1a and 1b, both being involved with the same plotline and maybe team up eventually? That would certainly work.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I think Venli is group 3. Brandon itself says that group 3 appears and have roles in group one.(but they have no povs)

 

And group 3 also appears as the same time as the flashbacks appears. So its the perfect time to introduce Venli and her flashbacks.

So i say, group 3 is Venli and Moash

 

Group1 Kaladin, Adolin, Renarin Lirin(few viewpoints) and the 5th one maybe someone of the bridge4

Group2 Shallan, Jasnah 

Group3 Venli ,Moash

 

Not appear: Dalinar(Sanderson previously said he will had a small role in this book,so he doesnt need povs), Szeth(idk what his role would be in this book, if he doesnt go to Shinnovar until 5th book, i think with only interludes about his training is enought) ,Lift

 

This is my guesses

Edited by Jace
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For Group 1 being in Alethkar, I would assume they'll end up mostly in the same corner of the country. Probably in the vicinity of Hearthstone. Being in the same place doesn't mean they are holding hands from one chapter to the next. :) Just means they are close enough to have occasional interactions. Maybe one becomes a prisoner to the others. Maybe they face off on a battlefield. Maybe one group is trying to thwart the efforts of the other. That sort of thing.

25 minutes ago, Jace said:

I think Venli is group 3. Brandon itself says that group 3 appears and have roles in group one.(but they have no povs)

That was only referring to Part 1 of the book.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect that Dalinar/Navani/Jasnah will probably stick together for politics.  It is possible that Jasnah as Queen of an occupied country will forgo politics and join the main group with the intent of liberating Alethekar or join the front as a kickass Queen on Horseback type.  Then it would be Dalinar/Navani and maybe one other character like Renarin to give us eyes on Urithiru intrigue.

Venli makes sense as a continued POV from the other side of the conflict.  Maybe she'll get paired up with Moshe as a pair of morally complicated turncoats full of regrets for their bad life choices.

Shallan and Renarin would make a good independent research pair for looking into Sja-Anat due to Renarin's spren and Shallan's most recent task from the Ghostbloods.

I'm guessing the remaining large group will be on one of the front lines.  Herdaz seems the most likely, but the Horneater Peaks have also been heavily foreshadowed as a spot of importance.

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, Jofwu said:

Group Three: Dalinar and Jasnah

...

Group One: Kaladin, Venli, Szeth, Adolin, and Moash

...

Group Two: Shallan and Renarin

Group 3- good points. I can see both D and J wanting to stay behind at Uruthiru. However, I think there are plenty of shenanigans that Szeth and Dalinar could get into. I imagine Szeth begging for permission to exact justice and Dalinar holding him back until, in part five, there's someone truly evil and Dalinar let's Szeth off his leash. Like Eddie Brock at the end of Venom.

And as much as I want Jasnah to teach us about Uruthiru, I'd rather see more of her learning to endure the dim wits of the larger party in group one. I'm not shipping her and Kaladin, but I'd love to see them bump heads more. Let him show her the dark[eyes]side of the Nation she now rules. Most importantly, these two typify the two most important perspectives on the justice of fighting the Parshendi. Maybe he can bring her around to a more tolerant perspective and maybe she can help him reach his 4th ideal. Let Adolin, Navani, and Lift come along. I want more bromance with Adolin and Kaladin. I like Navani but am bored by her arc so far so maybe she can have a more critical role here. And Lift would be useful to have along, would brighten the spirits, and could do some growing up. Or Venli, I don't care.

Shallan and Renarin makes too much sense for me to have anything to say about it. Seriously great points, @Jofwu

 

Now this may contradict much of what I said regarding group 1, but don't we need to see more of Roshar about now? I don't want another book too be primarily in Alethkar and Uruthiru. Maybe Lift needs to be their guide somewhere in central or east Roshar since she's explored much of it. Better secure Azimir? Conquer Iri?

 

Biggest and boldest prediction: 2 parties leave Uruthiru on missions and the 3rd is chased out by Odium's armies in part 5. Then Book 5 is a battle to get it back. Sorry if this is out of place here. Feel free to not address it....

Edited by OathKeeper
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Jace said:

I think Venli is group 3. Brandon itself says that group 3 appears and have roles in group one.(but they have no povs)

 

And group 3 also appears as the same time as the flashbacks appears. So its the perfect time to introduce Venli and her flashbacks.

So i say, group 3 is Venli and Moash

Very good points, buuuuuuuut. According to the current update group 3 hasn't been written yet and Brandon did a short reading of a scene from Venli's POV. So Venli likely isn't group 3.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can definitely see the groups paired up this way, though I am curious why the flashbacks are being held off until Part 3.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really like your groupings @Jofwu. My only concern was another thing Brandon said regarding a certain Rock novella he would possibly want released prior to Stormlight 4. But that novella could be a lot of things. Maybe he is unable to resolve things himself in the Peaks and needs help from Urithiru leading into book 4. Maybe it is kind of a flashback novella with the purpose of explaining horneater culture and Rock’s history prior to a deeper dive in book 4. Or maybe Rock has some sort of adventure in Urithiru that motivates him to return to the Peaks and accept his role as King. (Something that pushes him to Radiant, not squire, status?)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something that confuses me is that "this book... starts with all the characters together--then splits into three groups of viewpoints."

I assume Venli is a viewpoint character, but how is that possible if they all start off together?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not sure which characters will be in which groups, but here are the groups I would like to see. 

Group one: Jasnah, Kaladin, Adolin, Lirin, Lift

Groupt Two: Shallan, Renarin 

Group Three: Dalinar, Szeth 

It would be quite funny to see Jasnah and Lirin both acting as mentors to Kaladin, slowly driving him insane. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It makes no sense to me for Jasnah to be at liberty to run off on some quest. I hope that Sanderson is too good a writer to completely ignore the implications of her becoming the queen of a nation in exile, having to deal with waves of refugees and pushing through some very necessary reforms of Alethi society in the face of religious and political opposition. For this reason I also don't see her remaining at Urithiru - until somebody figures out how to turn it on and make it self-sustaining, living there is a constant drain on the limited and ever-dwindling gem reserve. Sebarial was right about the need to return to the Shattered Plains, where they'd have a better chance of feeding the people and producing the other necessary stuff without having to constantly resort to soulcasting. Humans fleeing from the southern Alethi princedoms are going to come there. They'll need to be protected from the Fused. There are the Ghostbloods. And, of course, there are still the remnants of the Listeners somewhere around too for her to eventually deal/interact with. Jasnah herself may or may not be one of the PoVs, but we need somebody to provide a window on her doings. Not sure what group she would belong to, but there is a lot of story to be had at the Shattered Plains.

This could be group 2, maybe? I'd have said group 1, because there is a lot to do there, but Venli is in Kholinar and it seems that group 2 won't have any PoVs during the "Avalanche" section, which would be odd for the focus character of a given book. But maybe she dies along the way?

 

Dalinar will mainly stay at Urithiru, which would also help to divorce him and the Radiants in general from Alethkar in the minds of other nations, even though I expect that a couple of Windrunner "bridges" are going to be stationed at the Shattered Plains at all times, to protect the people there from the raids by the Fused. Dalinar and Navani are going to do politics and try to figure out how to turn Urithiru back on. Inventing weapons that would allow normal people to fend off the Fused is likely to be on the agenda as well. Navani may or may not have a PoV and I expect at least one attempt to steal back the Thrill in it's gem or to destroy the gem to free it by the Odium's side. Group 3?

 

And it seems like the bulk of the characters are going to be back at Alethkar, since Venli and Kaladin are already there from the readings. And so was Sja-Anat the last we saw her.

I used to think that Rock's return to the Horneater peaks would be a major plot arc for Kaladin in the book 4, but with the news about his impending novella and what Sanderson told us about the PoV groupings, this doesn't make much sense anymore.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm hoping that Moash is not in any of the 3 groups. If he has to have POVs hopefully he's just in the interludes.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Isilel said:

And it seems like the bulk of the characters are going to be back at Alethkar, since Venli and Kaladin are already there from the readings. And so was Sja-Anat the last we saw her.

Did I miss a reading involving Kaladin in Alethkar?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are my thoughts:

Group 1 Major POV: 

Kaladin

Szeth

Venli

Group 1 Minor POV:

Adolin

Group 1 Minimal/No POV:

Renarin

Group 1 Thoughts: I think Kaladin and Szeth will be sent on some mission, along with Adolin and Renarin and likely other minor characters.  They will eventually encounter Venli, who starts off separate from them.  Following past precedence from what Sanderson has written, he considers Adolin a secondary character (though a fan favorite) and will keep his viewpoints at a similar level to OB.  They will bring Renarin because they want his healing and future sight powers, but he will stay as a non-POV character or only very short scenes with POV.

Group 2:

Shallan

Jasnah

Group 2 Thoughts: I think the year gap between OB and Book 4 will give our heroes time to realize life is difficult, if not impossible, in Urithiru without all its fabrials working.  As the two smartest radiants, these two will be given the task to make Urithiru work again.  They will probably receive support from Navani and any others who aren't sent out on the main mission that group 1 is tasked with.

Group 3:

Dalinar

Lift

Group 3 Thoughts: I could see group 3 going in one of two ways - one: it's a political story with Dalinar trying to forge alliances with Azir and other nations.  Lift is pulled in due to her ties with Emperor Gawx.  She doesn't want to be a politician, but is forced into the role because she's the only one they have that has powerful ties.  The other alternative is we see a plot with Ash and Taln doing something.  I feel like the Heralds have to try to do something now that they know the desolation is here again.  It would make sense the way Sanderson described Group 3 as just sort of keeping track of what certain characters are doing.  So, Ash and Taln may have now regained enough sanity to believe they need to gather up the Heralds they can and try to help/do their duty.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Winds Alight said:

Did I miss a reading involving Kaladin in Alethkar?

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/388-bonn-signing/#e12676

 

9 hours ago, Vindo said:

Im not sure which characters will be in which groups, but here are the groups I would like to see. 

Group one: Jasnah, Kaladin, Adolin, Lirin, Lift

Groupt Two: Shallan, Renarin 

Group Three: Dalinar, Szeth 

It would be quite funny to see Jasnah and Lirin both acting as mentors to Kaladin, slowly driving him insane. 

You left out the main character of this book: Venli.  

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Winds Alight said:

That is of Lirin in Hearthstone. I don't think there's any confirmation of Kaladin in Kholinar.

Brandon says that Kaladin is actually hidden among the refugees

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Inky said:

Brandon says that Kaladin is actually hidden among the refugees

Yeah. These refugees are from Herdaz. No mention of Kholinar at all. Also, wasn't this a reading from the first chapter? So we have absolutely no idea where Kaladin will be later on.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Winds Alight said:

That is of Lirin in Hearthstone. I don't think there's any confirmation of Kaladin in Kholinar.

It's actually this WoB where Brandon explicitly says that Kaladin comes to Hearthstone, which is in Alethkar.  

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Per the comment section of the same reddit thread, Brandon said he is 90% certain Rhythm of War will be the title of book 4.  He said he just has to make sure it works as an in-world book as well.  (He also mentioned an oral book would work in a pinch, but he wanted to avoid that.)

I'd toyed with the possibility of Venli being in something other than group 1, but with that reminder, and this being her 'book' and all, I'd say she's definitely in group 1.  And if she's in group 1, I think that means Kaladin (almost) has to be in group 1 as well.  He's the only main besides Dalinar who has any interaction with the Parsh besides battle.  (Plus his breakdown in OB seeing his friends kill each other will certainly come into play as he tries to make the non-Odium Parsh ally with team Dalinar.)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't hate me for this guys.....For some reason I'm a huge fan of the idea of a Kaladin and Venli romance so I want them to be in the same group.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

It's actually this WoB where Brandon explicitly says that Kaladin comes to Hearthstone, which is in Alethkar.  

Lol I'm stupid, way up I did read Kholinar instead of Alethkar ... thus my confusion. :rolleyes:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.