Atium Alloys

[Dancer]

So we know that Atium can be alloyed with any of the 16 basic allomantic metals. IIRC Brandon has said that these will give you various temporal powers. We know that pure Atium will give you future sight for other people. We know that malatium will allow you to view someone else's past (shadow). what do you think the other alloys of Atium do. My theory is since Cadmium and Bendalloy shift space and time around you then its Atium alloy should shift you through space and time namely teleport you, either into the cognative realm or through the spiritual realm.  

[Halyo_Alex]

Actually, Atium alloys do "various temporal AND mental" effects. Because pure Atium not only shows you the future of people and objects (like arrows) around you, but it also boosts your mental capacity and speed (hmm, like F-Zinc) to handle the influx of extra information.

And if the alloys follow the same pattern as gold malatium, then alloys of atium invert the internal/external axis of the allomantic chart. Which kind of makes sense thematically, the god metal of the shard opposite to Preservation causes the effects of his magic system to be inverted. So electrum-atium would... Huh. It would show you the future of others around you. ...Just like normal atium? Wait a minute, but then...

[+Harrycrapper]

1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Actually, Atium alloys do "various temporal AND mental" effects. Because pure Atium not only shows you the future of people and objects (like arrows) around you, but it also boosts your mental capacity and speed (hmm, like F-Zinc) to handle the influx of extra information.

And if the alloys follow the same pattern as gold malatium, then alloys of atium invert the internal/external axis of the allomantic chart. Which kind of makes sense thematically, the god metal of the shard opposite to Preservation causes the effects of his magic system to be inverted. So electrum-atium would... Huh. It would show you the future of others around you. ...Just like normal atium? Wait a minute, but then...

I had a discussion on how I thought the Atium we see in the Mistborn trilogy was an alloy of electrum but someone up high shot it down. I was sure I saw a WoB or something that said the Atium from the pits wasn't the pure form of Atium but there are so may WoBs on Atium that I never finished searching through them to find it. But, yea, Atium does seem to do the opposite of electrum. Electrum allows you to see what you will do in the next few seconds, Atium lets you see what everything around you will do in the next few seconds. The fact that they essentially cancel eachother out always seemed off to me considering Atium is a Godmetal and electrum is not. 

[+Harrycrapper]

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Electrum

I held off on using this metal because while I knew what it had to do, I also knew that it would make atium far less important.

The way I built Allomancy, there is a logic to its framework. Atium shows other people's futures. Gold shows your own past. Each group of metals has internal and external powers. Therefore, one of the two alloys (either atium's or gold's) had to show other people's pasts—the Eleventh Metal from book one, an alloy of atium.

The final metal of that group, then, had to show your own future. I wanted this to be an alloy of atium. But the problem was that it couldn't be. There is always a pushing metal and a pulling metal to each set. The pull always comes first; the push is always the alloy. The two external metals (that do things to other people) have to be grouped together, and the two internal metals (that do things to yourself) have to be grouped together.

That means atium and gold are both pulling metals, and the ones that do things to you both had to be related to gold—and both metals that do things to other people had to be related to atium. Therefore, even though initial logic makes it seem that the alloy of atium should be the one that shows your own future, the way the magic is arranged means that it has to show other people's pasts. [Editor's note: Careful readers may intuit something else about this that Brandon is holding back.]

The Hero of Ages Annotations (June 25, 2009)

This contradicts what I said but it's the only thing I found that really touches on this. I'm not really picking up on what the editor's note is implying, maybe someone else knows the answer to that or can puzzle it out?

[Dancer]

We can probably get an idea of what Atium and its alloys do by looking at the fundamentals of allomancy. Allomancy when fueled by preservation is all about preserving the user. An allomancer's physical body does not change when channeling preservation investiture. Ones height says the same, weight stays the same, they don't glow they don't distort colors. Preservation protects the user from his/her own investiture. steel and iron misting don't have limbs ripped off when swinging around the city or get whiplash for instance. It is also very hard to become a savant with allomany. Allomancy only allows investiture to flow through you at a certain rate even when flared. Given all this what would allomancy powered by ruin be like. Harmony seems to think that Atium agreed with Ruins intent because it made you an unstoppable killer. Given this any Atium alloy I believe must either be dangerous to the user or to others around him/her. 

 

• Atium - sees the future (dangerous to others, makes you unstoppable killing machine) 
• malatium - sees others past (dangerous to others no, one has secrets around you)
• Cadmium + Atium - teleport into the CR (dangerous to you because it is a one way trip)
• Bendalloy + Atium - teleportation ( dangerous to you because you could materialize inside a bolder)
• Zinc + Atium - reads thoughts ( dangerous to others, again no secrets)
• Brass + Atium - implant thoughts basically telepathy ( dangerous to others, invading someones mind)
•  Copper + Atium - creates memories ( dangerous to others, invasion of the mind) 
• Brone + Atium - wipes memories ( dangerous to others, invasion of the mind)

That's all I've got right now.

[Halyo_Alex]

13 hours ago, Dancer said:

 

• Atium - sees the future (dangerous to others, makes you unstoppable killing machine) 
• malatium - sees others past (dangerous to others no, one has secrets around you)
• Cadmium + Atium - teleport into the CR (dangerous to you because it is a one way trip)
• Bendalloy + Atium - teleportation ( dangerous to you because you could materialize inside a bolder)
• Zinc + Atium - reads thoughts ( dangerous to others, again no secrets)
• Brass + Atium - implant thoughts basically telepathy ( dangerous to others, invading someones mind)
•  Copper + Atium - creates memories ( dangerous to others, invasion of the mind) 
• Brone + Atium - wipes memories ( dangerous to others, invasion of the mind)

That's all I've got right now.

I agree with all of these except cadmium/bendalloy because those seem like distinctly physical effects whereas atium alloys do Mental and Temporal effects. The rest of those sound really good, though! Far better and more interesting than pretty much every other atium alloy powerset i've seen... even the ones i've tried to come up with.

[Dancer]

 

I agree with all of these except cadmium/bendalloy because those seem like distinctly physical effects whereas atium alloys do Mental and Temporal effects. The rest of those sound really good, though! Far better and more interesting than pretty much every other atium alloy powerset i've seen... even the ones i've tried to come up with.

Thank you. I had some other ideas but they sounded to OP and not in keeping with the powers that allomancy has already displayed. IIRC Brandon has said that there is a way to enter the CR with allomancy, so I put it in hear as a extreamly fast burning one way trip ability. Your right that it probably doesn't do that. 

[Grytorm]

Maybe Electrum + Atium could be a cross between Gold and Electrums normal events. So it would provide a glimpse of your own future but instead of revealing the next few seconds like Electrum it would supply a larger idea of who you could become. 

[Dancer]

 

Maybe Electrum + Atium could be a cross between Gold and Electrums normal events. So it would provide a glimpse of your own future but instead of revealing the next few seconds like Electrum it would supply a larger idea of who you could become.

This is possible. It would also fit with ruins intent. After all it would be pretty distressing to see your future shadow and its you as a beggar. 

[Halyo_Alex]

11 hours ago, Dancer said:

 

 

This is possible. It would also fit with ruins intent. After all it would be pretty distressing to see your future shadow and its you as a beggar. 

Seeing yourself with that future would also then allow you to change it by avoiding that situation at all costs (like how you can avoid the normal Electrum shadows that get, say, stabbed in the face)

[Dancer]

OK instead of teleportation for Cadmium and Bendalloy here is something else.

• Atium + Cadmium: see past events - think of a particular date and burn the metal. You will see either a vision or just atium shadows of events that happened at your location. You only see events that happened at your location not anywhere else. So if your in a house and you burn this metal you will only see events that happened in the room that you are in.
• Atium + Bendally: see future events - works just like above but exept that you see events that will happen in the future. Another restriction will be that you can't see anything that is not one day or further into the future. This is so there is no overlap with pure Atium. 

[stormbourne]

On 05/09/2019 at 11:07 AM, Dancer said:

OK instead of teleportation for Cadmium and Bendalloy here is something else.

• Atium + Cadmium: see past events - think of a particular date and burn the metal. You will see either a vision or just atium shadows of events that happened at your location. You only see events that happened at your location not anywhere else. So if your in a house and you burn this metal you will only see events that happened in the room that you are in.
• Atium + Bendally: see future events - works just like above but exept that you see events that will happen in the future. Another restriction will be that you can't see anything that is not one day or further into the future. This is so there is no overlap with pure Atium. 

yea these are most likely it

[Quantus]

On 8/20/2019 at 3:35 AM, Dancer said:

We can probably get an idea of what Atium and its alloys do by looking at the fundamentals of allomancy. Allomancy when fueled by preservation is all about preserving the user. An allomancer's physical body does not change when channeling preservation investiture. Ones height says the same, weight stays the same, they don't glow they don't distort colors. Preservation protects the user from his/her own investiture. steel and iron misting don't have limbs ripped off when swinging around the city or get whiplash for instance. It is also very hard to become a savant with allomany. Allomancy only allows investiture to flow through you at a certain rate even when flared. Given all this what would allomancy powered by ruin be like. Harmony seems to think that Atium agreed with Ruins intent because it made you an unstoppable killer. Given this any Atium alloy I believe must either be dangerous to the user or to others around him/her. 

This is very much not true of allomancy, though it is true of Feruchemy.  Allomantic savants were the very first savants we were introduced to in the cosmere, and it mostly just takes prolonged flairing.  

On 8/20/2019 at 3:35 AM, Dancer said:

 

• Atium - sees the future (dangerous to others, makes you unstoppable killing machine) 
• malatium - sees others past (dangerous to others no, one has secrets around you)
• Cadmium + Atium - teleport into the CR (dangerous to you because it is a one way trip)
• Bendalloy + Atium - teleportation ( dangerous to you because you could materialize inside a bolder)
• Zinc + Atium - reads thoughts ( dangerous to others, again no secrets)
• Brass + Atium - implant thoughts basically telepathy ( dangerous to others, invading someones mind)
•  Copper + Atium - creates memories ( dangerous to others, invasion of the mind) 
• Brone + Atium - wipes memories ( dangerous to others, invasion of the mind)

That's all I've got right now.

I really like these.  I love the Zinc/Brass combo that seems to mimic the whole way preservation and ruin each had 1/2 of the telepathy equation.  

[stormbourne]

Electurm + Atium reveal your future to others

[Halyo_Alex]

So we have alternatives for the actual mental/temporal categories, but what happens if you alloy atium with Iron, or Aluminum, etc?

Personally I like the idea that duralumin-atium would simply speed up your burn rate and power output, rather than burning it all in a flash.

[Dancer]

2 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

So we have alternatives for the actual mental/temporal categories, but what happens if you alloy atium with Iron, or Aluminum, etc?

Personally I like the idea that duralumin-atium would simply speed up your burn rate and power output, rather than burning it all in a flash.

I always had the feeling that a Savant in Duralumin would be able to control the burn rate of whatever metal he is burning. 

[Karger]

6 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Personally I like the idea that duralumin-atium would simply speed up your burn rate and power output, rather than burning it all in a flash.

No that is what happens when you burn duralumin with atium. 

[stormbourne]

On 08/09/2019 at 5:45 AM, Karger said:

No that is what happens when you burn duralumin with atium. 

 

On 08/09/2019 at 1:35 AM, Dancer said:

I always had the feeling that a Savant in Duralumin would be able to control the burn rate of whatever metal he is burning. 

i feel that dancer is correct

duralumin or aluminium + atium likely makes a area that drains or surges others power when their at that location

[Karger]

8 hours ago, stormbourne said:

duralumin or aluminium + atium likely makes a area that drains or surges others power when their at that location

that is not what aluminum does at all.

[Halyo_Alex]

2 hours ago, Karger said:

that is not what aluminum does at all.

that's not what he said.

11 hours ago, stormbourne said:

duralumin or aluminium + atium likely makes a area that drains or surges others power when their at that location

Depending on which metal you use, aluminum-atium would drain, duralumin-atium would increase, like an external version of aluminum or duralumin, but not the same way as chromium/nicrosil.

 

but remember, Atium alloys do "expanded mental and temporal" effects. not Physical or Enhancement, and seem to flip the internal/external axis of the metal it's alloyed with (gold shows others' gold shadows instead of your own as Malatium). So it wouldn't be like that. It'd be more like it speeds up or slows down the burn rate of your metals in a temporal sense, like if you could speed bubble just the bit of someone's spirit that burns metals. same for chromium/nicrosil + atium, but reversed; those would affect your own burn speed.

What this would be like is sort of like... a reverse Flare of your burn rate with aluminum-atium, dulling your burn rate in exchange for some efficiency in how you burn, vs a Flare that can be stacked with actually flaring your metals. technically you could get even more burn rate potency out of it if you flared the duralumin-atium and your target metal (Let's say pewter.)

If this duralumin-atium doubles the burn rate of other metals, and you flare it, let's say that it doubles the doubling effect, so you get a 4x speed multiplier when flaring that alloy. If you then burn pewter, you burn it at 4x speed for 4x the power. If then you flare the Pewter, let's say for the sake of simplicity that it also doubles the burn rate. Is it additive or multiplicative? Do you get 6x speed, or 8x? I'm leaning towards 8x because the Duralumin-atium is giving the multiplier to the overall burn speed of your other metals, meaning the flaring rate for pewter would also get boosted.

And then with the aluminum-atium, you could have a slow burn of something like Tin, so that you can get enough of a boost without burning through it, letting you use up minimal amounts of your tin supply for the effect... Of course that's sort of moot because Tin will always be more plentiful than both aluminum AND atium, but for something like, say, a different atium alloy, being as efficient as possible could be critical to your success with it.

[Karger]

11 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Depending on which metal you use, aluminum-atium would drain, duralumin-atium would increase, like an external version of aluminum or duralumin, but not the same way as chromium/nicrosil.

Understood.  Still don't think that works this way.

[stormbourne]

23 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

that's not what he said.

Depending on which metal you use, aluminum-atium would drain, duralumin-atium would increase, like an external version of aluminum or duralumin, but not the same way as chromium/nicrosil.

 

but remember, Atium alloys do "expanded mental and temporal" effects. not Physical or Enhancement, and seem to flip the internal/external axis of the metal it's alloyed with (gold shows others' gold shadows instead of your own as Malatium). So it wouldn't be like that. It'd be more like it speeds up or slows down the burn rate of your metals in a temporal sense, like if you could speed bubble just the bit of someone's spirit that burns metals. same for chromium/nicrosil + atium, but reversed; those would affect your own burn speed.

What this would be like is sort of like... a reverse Flare of your burn rate with aluminum-atium, dulling your burn rate in exchange for some efficiency in how you burn, vs a Flare that can be stacked with actually flaring your metals. technically you could get even more burn rate potency out of it if you flared the duralumin-atium and your target metal (Let's say pewter.)

If this duralumin-atium doubles the burn rate of other metals, and you flare it, let's say that it doubles the doubling effect, so you get a 4x speed multiplier when flaring that alloy. If you then burn pewter, you burn it at 4x speed for 4x the power. If then you flare the Pewter, let's say for the sake of simplicity that it also doubles the burn rate. Is it additive or multiplicative? Do you get 6x speed, or 8x? I'm leaning towards 8x because the Duralumin-atium is giving the multiplier to the overall burn speed of your other metals, meaning the flaring rate for pewter would also get boosted.

And then with the aluminum-atium, you could have a slow burn of something like Tin, so that you can get enough of a boost without burning through it, letting you use up minimal amounts of your tin supply for the effect... Of course that's sort of moot because Tin will always be more plentiful than both aluminum AND atium, but for something like, say, a different atium alloy, being as efficient as possible could be critical to your success with it.

so TL;DR you'er proposing that enhancement atium alloy effect the efficiency of other metals burned?

my proposal while poorly worded was that they make permanent dead or boosted areas

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, stormbourne said:

so TL;DR you'er proposing that enhancement atium alloy effect the efficiency of other metals burned?

my proposal while poorly worded was that they make permanent dead or boosted areas

Oh, so like an external "speed bubble" of unable to burn metal  or all your metals get burned instead of warping the speed of time? That sounds... interesting, but not really temporal. who knows though. hint, probably Brandon

[+Harrycrapper]

On 8/21/2019 at 11:55 PM, Dancer said:

 

 

This is possible. It would also fit with ruins intent. After all it would be pretty distressing to see your future shadow and its you as a beggar. 

That's would be pretty standard for Hoid.