Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker

The Name of Cultivation

9 posts in this topic

Ok, here we go.

I was thinking last night about the end of Oathbringer and couldn’t get over the fact that Dalinar is able to talk to Evi at the end.

Now, the three possible answers are as follows.

1. The first idea was that the realms were so close at the end of Oathbringer that Dalinar was communicating directly with the Spiritual Realm. However, this causes greater implications for the Cosmere as a whole, since at this point Evi would have passed “beyond”, which is said to be a  different place than the Spiritual Realm. Yet, here you have Dalinar being able to talk directly to someone in the Beyond?

2. The second idea is that Cultivation knew that Dalinar needed to hear Evi forgive him, so kept her around.

Kind of like (MISTBORN SPOILER)

Spoiler

Preservation And Kelsier

3. The final idea is that Evi is actually an Avatar of Cultivation. It is further possible that Cultivation saw with her future sight how Dalinar’s life would unfold, so she created a body (we know shards can do this, look at odium) and came down to help prune him to were he needed to be. I feel as if it is not that big of a jump for Cultivation to see so far into the future that she starts setting pieces in motion that fast. This explains why Sanderson won’t reveal the name of Cultivation, we all know it, and he wants that reveal for later. (You could go a little deeper, and say that the reason Evi feels so much for Dalinar is that he is so much like Tanavast, her old lover)

TL;DR 

Cultivation created an Avatar of herself (called Evi) to come down to Roshar to help prune Dalinar to were he needed to be.

 

I am sure this will get shredded to bits, but there really needs to be some explanation of Evi talking to Dalinar at the end.

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1 hour ago, Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker said:

Cultivation created an Avatar of herself (called Evi) to come down to Roshar to help prune Dalinar to were he needed to be.

You mean a Cognetive shadow.  I suppose that is possible but I don't see what Evi would be doing hanging out in Shadesmar all this time.

1 hour ago, Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker said:

1. The first idea was that the realms were so close at the end of Oathbringer that Dalinar was communicating directly with the Spiritual Realm. However, this causes greater implications for the Cosmere as a whole, since at this point Evi would have passed “beyond”, which is said to be a  different place than the Spiritual Realm. Yet, here you have Dalinar being able to talk directly to someone in the Beyond?

He could still talk to her ideal or her memory.  Something is strange about the Rosharan dead.  Szeth should not hear voices and then Dalinar also talks with Nohodon.  I think he is talking to a construct of them like Shallan's lightweavings.

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Dalinar also hears voices/screams of the dead. I think there is something about the sheer volume of person-to-person violence/death that those two have inflicted that has caused this.

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2 hours ago, Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker said:

Kind of like (MISTBORN SPOILER)

  Reveal hidden contents

Preservation And Kelsier

3. The final idea is that Evi is actually an Avatar of Cultivation. It is further possible that Cultivation saw with her future sight how Dalinar’s life would unfold, so she created a body (we know shards can do this, look at odium) and came down to help prune him to were he needed to be. I feel as if it is not that big of a jump for Cultivation to see so far into the future that she starts setting pieces in motion that fast. This explains why Sanderson won’t reveal the name of Cultivation, we all know it, and he wants that reveal for later. (You could go a little deeper, and say that the reason Evi feels so much for Dalinar is that he is so much like Tanavast, her old lover)

That actually is a cool idea. It would mean Adolin and Renarin are children of a shard. Which maybe plays into why Adolin is resurrecting his shardblade? Iirc it used to be a Cultivationspren.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

You mean a Cognetive shadow.  I suppose that is possible but I don't see what Evi would be doing hanging out in Shadesmar all this time.

Avatar would be the correct term for what he proposed in the section you quoted.

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There's actually such a thing as the corpse of a spiritweb in the Spiritual Realm. And it takes a surprisingly long time before that decays and disperses. So I would say that he was sensing and speaking to the remnants of Evi's spiritweb, mixed up with his own desires and longings and hopes.

Quote

Argent

Is death in the Cosmere a two-stage process? It seems to me like (under normal circumstances) the body dies first, sending the mind fully in the Cognitive Realm; the soul, presumably, remains in the Spiritual for the entire process. I am a little unclear on what happens after that though - what is it that passes into the Beyond, just the mind? Does the soul / spiritual aspect / Spiritweb just kind of... break down in the Spiritual Realm, turn into free investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. It's a two stage process, and most of what you said is correct. The odd thing is, though, that the spiritweb doesn't completely break down (just like your body doesn't immediately break down.) Even after a long time, there's a record of that spirit web in the spiritual realm.

Oversleep

Wait wait wait. If there is a "corpse" of Spiritweb (so to speak) and actual, physical corpse is also there... Could it be still viable for Hemalurgy? Could it be still viable for Hemalurgy if you really know what you're doing and have some useful powers (manipulating Connection comes to mind)?

Could you patch the remnants of the Spiritweb and staple it to the body and end up with some zombie-zombie Lifeless? You'd still need to give it a mind but I figure Awakening is just doing that?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Stormlight Three Update #6 (Feb. 5, 2017)

 

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The scene we get of Cultivation interacting with Dalinar in OB gives no hints that she sent Evi to him or foreshadowing it even via allusion. Not very "Brandon", if the avatar idea is correct. :-) I like the thought, but think RShara is right here. 

In any event, a SpiritWeb Corpse? That's really cool, too. Has amazing implications for what the future of Roshar might look like as the people fight Odium's forces and Dalinar comes to terms with his growing powers. 

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I think Evi's voice is just one of the "mysterious", unexplainable things that we won't get an answer to. Like in Lord of the Rings, where Tolkien himself basically admitted that Tom Bombadil has no logical explanation and is completely unrelated to the cosmology at large. I think in the Cosmere there are also things that are just completely unexplainable, like the Beyond, or the implied deity above Adonalsium. I don't think they can be explained with any of the pseudo-science-investiture-charts and theories and all the mechanics of Investiture that we know and they are probably not supposed to. I think Dalinar hearing Evi's voice is in the same category.

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On 8/16/2019 at 4:04 PM, Bliev said:

 

The scene we get of Cultivation interacting with Dalinar in OB gives no hints that she sent Evi to him or foreshadowing it even via allusion. Not very "Brandon", if the avatar idea is correct. :-) I like the thought, but think RShara is right here. 

 

 

Well, of course she didn’t say anything.

Cultivation has Shardic Sight above most shards. It is not a stretch to say that if this theory is correct, She would know what she is supposed to say, to get him to where she wants.

 

Edited by Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker
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5 hours ago, bxcnch said:

I think Evi's voice is just one of the "mysterious", unexplainable things that we won't get an answer to. Like in Lord of the Rings, where Tolkien himself basically admitted that Tom Bombadil has no logical explanation and is completely unrelated to the cosmology at large. I think in the Cosmere there are also things that are just completely unexplainable, like the Beyond, or the implied deity above Adonalsium. I don't think they can be explained with any of the pseudo-science-investiture-charts and theories and all the mechanics of Investiture that we know and they are probably not supposed to. I think Dalinar hearing Evi's voice is in the same category.

I disagree. Those other things you mentioned have implications for the entire world, and have obvious storytelling reasons for being there. The Evi voice doesn't. That's why i would not place them in the same category.

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