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Tiberius Gracchus

Culitivation's Vessel's Species

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In the recent Shardcast the casters were discussing how we know very little about Cultivation's vessel. We don't even know her name or race, merely that she is considered female. Brandon has many times stated that not all of the original vessels are/were human, and there is rampant speculation about which ones (namely Endowment and Autonomy) might be dragons. It seems to me that it would be an inappropriate waste to have the gathering of the most powerful people in the Cosmere reflect only two of its species. This has led me to theorize that Culitivation's vessel might be a singer. I know that the one time that we have seen Cultivation "in the flesh" so to speak she appeared closer to human than singer, however she was appearing to Dalinar at that time and as Odium shows at Thaylen Field species swapping is easy for shards.

Cultivation being a singer could help explain why she and Honor decided to settle on Roshar, and an ancient deific singer-human romance-to-last-the-ages would fit the Stormlight Archive thematically quite well.

Tib

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I don't think she's a singer. Singer have their own genders traditionally, malen and femalen, so I'm not sure if that has any bearing on it. Plus, this WOB seems to imply that there were the three races on Yolen that were present but nobody from off-world. 

Quote

NutiketAiel

Were the original sixteen Shardholders after the shattering all human?

Brandon Sanderson

Uh … RAFO. There are three races on Yolen. 

NutiketAiel

Three sentient races?

Brandon Sanderon

Yes, three sentient races.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

Granted, it's not concrete.

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42 minutes ago, Invocation said:

I don't think she's a singer. Singer have their own genders traditionally, malen and femalen, so I'm not sure if that has any bearing on it. Plus, this WOB seems to imply that there were the three races on Yolen that were present but nobody from off-world. 

Granted, it's not concrete.

How closely related are the Singers and Sho-Del?

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23 minutes ago, TheFoxQR said:

How closely related are the Singers and Sho-Del?

I wish we knew the answer to that.

Quote

havoc_mayhem

You've once said that there were three sentient species on Yolen: Human, Dragon and [Sho Del]. We've seen a lot of 'people' on the different planets that were either descended from or intentionally based on humans. Frost is known to be a dragon.

Are any of the non-human species we've seen descended from or based on either Dragons or [Sho Del]?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO! :)

havoc_mayhem

What colour is Frost's blood? What color is a [Sho Del]'s blood?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO, more because I'm not ready to canonize Dragonsteel facts yet, as opposed because it will be a huge revelation.

Stormlight Three Update #4 (Sept. 28, 2016)

Given, though, that Adonalsium created the singers, there was probably some overlap but likely not much.

Edited by Invocation
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There is a WoB that Parshmen were of Odium and Cultivation, but apparently not Honour. 

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5 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

There is a WoB that Parshmen were of Odium and Cultivation, but apparently not Honour. 

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Are the Parshendi of Odium?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Not originally.

Words of Radiance Houston signing (March 11, 2014)
Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Are the Parshendi of Cultivation?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Not originally.

Words of Radiance Houston signing (March 11, 2014)
Quote

PadraicSeebrr (paraphrased)

Are the Parshendi of Honor?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No.

Words of Radiance Houston signing (March 11, 2014)

These? If so, the key in the first two is "not originally." That could mean a lot of things where Sandman is concerned.

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Parshendi seem to be distinct to Roshar:

Quote

CarolaDavar's brother

[My cousin] thinks the Parshendi were made by someone so that spren could have a physical form. And he would like some critique on that.

Brandon Sanderson

Parshmen were created to be an essential part of the Rosharan ecosystem.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

If they are specifically created for Roshar, they have to be expiicitly different from the Sho Del, who were - living on Yolen - not created for Roshar.

I personally believe that Cultivation was human and looked just as she appeared. Mind that Odium appeared Parshendi because it would have been a problem for him to appear as the very thing he went kind of a long way to make them hate. When appearing before Dalinar, he still shows up with Shin eyes, instead of adjusting his appearance to fit Dalinar's. Obviously, the Shards can change appearance, but I don't see a good reason why Cultivation would do it in the situation we saw her in. Of course, there can be different reasons for it, I'm just saying that all of them are more unlikely than her just manifesting as she looked (same with Tanavast at the end of WOK). So I believe that's where the best bet is at.

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6 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

There is a WoB that Parshmen were of Odium and Cultivation, but apparently not Honour. 

5 hours ago, Invocation said:

These? If so, the key in the first two is "not originally." That could mean a lot of things where Sandman is concerned.

My personal take on it: 

5 hours ago, Elegy said:

Parshendi seem to be distinct to Roshar:

If they are specifically created for Roshar, they have to be expiicitly different from the Sho Del, who were - living on Yolen - not created for Roshar.

I personally believe that Cultivation was human and looked just as she appeared. Mind that Odium appeared Parshendi because it would have been a problem for him to appear as the very thing he went kind of a long way to make them hate. When appearing before Dalinar, he still shows up with Shin eyes, instead of adjusting his appearance to fit Dalinar's. Obviously, the Shards can change appearance, but I don't see a good reason why Cultivation would do it in the situation we saw her in. Of course, there can be different reasons for it, I'm just saying that all of them are more unlikely than her just manifesting as she looked (same with Tanavast at the end of WOK). So I believe that's where the best bet is at.

I've only been wondering because of the "natural paths" WoB. As there are multiple different origins for humans (atleast two, possibly more), the idea that Sho-Del on Yolen were sustained by the investiture in one of the two eco-systems there, and that same species when integrated with Rosharran ecology gives us the Singers.

Edited by TheFoxQR
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5 hours ago, TheFoxQR said:

I've only been wondering because of the "natural paths" WoB. As there are multiple different origins for humans (atleast two, possibly more), the idea that Sho-Del on Yolen were sustained by the investiture in one of the two eco-systems there, and that same species when integrated with Rosharran ecology gives us the Singers.

The singers were created with a specific purpose to fulfill in Rosharan ecology.  We have no evidence of any similar thing happening to the Sho-Del.  Also from what we know of them from Dragonsteal Prime they look nothing alike.

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The singers are pretty different from the Sho Del. The Sho Del are fainlife, so their entire ecology is antithetical to anything that humans (and therefore singers) can survive on (since humans and singers can survive on the same things).

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On 7/28/2019 at 1:15 AM, Invocation said:

Plus, this WOB seems to imply that there were the three races on Yolen that were present but nobody from off-world. 

Huh, I had always assumed Ati was Selish due to his Aonic name. This WOB throws that in the trash. Oh well.

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20 minutes ago, Brightness Jencee said:

Huh, I had always assumed Ati was Selish due to his Aonic name. This WOB throws that in the trash. Oh well.

Aon Ati was because when Brandon was going out with his to-be-wife, she was a teacher. And in her class was a girl named Matisse, who submitted a book report on Elantris (which, of course, Brandon wrote). He was so tickled by that, he wrote Hope of Elantris as a present for her, and the only Aon that he could get to work with her name was Ati.

And of course, Ati would predate Aon by....a really long time. :)

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On 7/28/2019 at 0:38 PM, RShara said:

The Sho Del are fainlife

What does this mean?

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Fainlife is a different ecology from what we would consider normal. It takes over anywhere it gets a foothold, and is antithetical to our normal ways of life. Inedible, possibly poisonous, invasive, and threatening.

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The original Vessels would have to have originally been one of the three intelligent species on Yolen at the time of the Shattering: Human, Sho Del or Dragon. 

Singers were not originally of any Shard because there were not Shards of Adonalsium back then, there was just Adonalsium. They existed pre-shattering. 

Some Vessels are non-human, all are from Yolen. 3 Intelligent species to choose from:  

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/314/#e8933    https://wob.coppermind.net/events/219/#e7982

Parshendi existed pre-shattering:

 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/188/#e3922

Bunch of other WoBs on the making of Roshar:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/31/#e1723

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/131/#e3952

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/324/#e9283

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/314/#e8903

Edited by Child of Hodor
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