A Joe in the Bush

Quick Fix Game 39: Corruption in the Senate 2: Allomantic Boogaloo

718 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Elandera said:

Wait, what? So, scan was redirected onto the lynch target. Interesting. Are you sure he isn't showing corrupt for another reason? Though I'm not seeing any obvious vote manipulation, so likely not.

I am more inclined to believe at this point elims redirected it onto Kidpen to keep us trapped in our echo chamber, and that Bard actually is village. It's still possible he's elim, but I want to take a closer look before I take any actions right now. Maybe get an actual scan on him. 

@A Joe in the Bush, just to clarify, buying a random item and a specific item are both supposed to cost the same?

Right now, yes they do. I expect that to change soon.

ALSO, Oops on my part, i just remembered that I will be working until rollover tonight, and that I have to wake up extremely early tomorrow. So this turn will not end in 13 hours, it will end in 37 hours. My apologies for the lack of warning.

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4 hours ago, Furamirionind said:

Well, the observant observer may notice my ledger in the market.

Your ledger isn't in the marketplace though. Striker's ledger is still there, but your ledger is supposed to be "The Great and Mighty Finder of Evildoers". I'm kind of confused as to why Gaea only has 11 boxings. At least four items(Whiskey: Comrade Vlad’s Vodacola, Warrant: Tearable, Dagger: Sticking Point, Dagger: JoinTheAlleyverse) were bought at a price of at least three boxings, so there should be at least 12 boxings available today plus whatever boxings Kidpen had at time of death. Your ledger being redirected to Kidpen and subsequently bought should have added another three boxings.

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24 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Your ledger isn't in the marketplace though. Striker's ledger is still there, but your ledger is supposed to be "The Great and Mighty Finder of Evildoers". I'm kind of confused as to why Gaea only has 11 boxings. At least four items(Whiskey: Comrade Vlad’s Vodacola, Warrant: Tearable, Dagger: Sticking Point, Dagger: JoinTheAlleyverse) were bought at a price of at least three boxings, so there should be at least 12 boxings available today plus whatever boxings Kidpen had at time of death. Your ledger being redirected to Kidpen and subsequently bought should have added another three boxings.

Ok... Now I'm confused... And yeah, I definitely confused which Ledger I had...

Anyways, I am still for claiming who has Whiskey, Warrants and Ledgers... I seriously doubt the elims have all of them, so I have no idea why no one is either responding with why we shouldn't claim those, or with their claims.

Just so everyone knows, I was not protected with whiskey last night, which I definitely think I should have been...

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Just now, Furamirionind said:

Ok... Now I'm confused... And yeah, I definitely confused which Ledger I had...

Anyways, I am still for claiming who has Whiskey, Warrants and Ledgers... I seriously doubt the elims have all of them, so I have no idea why no one is either responding with why we shouldn't claim those, or with their claims.

Just so everyone knows, I was not protected with whiskey last night, which I definitely think I should have been...

Fifth has a warrant. I used it on him last cycle (or was it the cycle before that?). He didn’t have anything I could take though. 

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Fifth has a warrant. I used it on him last cycle (or was it the cycle before that?). He didn’t have anything I could take though. 

He had it last cycle. He should have used it on someone else now, and they have it.

Edit:

Just a reminder all weekend I will be at my theater, and will be minimally active, only in mornings and at night my time.

Edited by Furamirionind
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Posted (edited)

The extended cycle is good news. I should have time, then, before the end of this turn to peg down some real suspects. I'm concerned most about people who've been around, but not seemingly content to let us keep focusing on Bard/Drake/Striker.

Edited by Elandera
Needed to finish my sentence
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Posted (edited)

This longer cycle is perfect for me! I might actually be around for rollover!

21 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

He should have used it on someone else now, and they have it.

Fifth probably used the Warrant on me, because I have one now. I didn't have any items so if he used it on me, he didn't get anything. I have my plans for using it tonight, but because I'll be around for roll over to change my actions I can be open to other options.

 

Edited by Butt Ad Venture
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3 minutes ago, Elandera said:

The extended cycle is good news. I should have time, then, before the end of this turn to peg down some real suspects. I'm concerned most about people who've been around, but not seemingly content to let us keep focusing on Bard/Drake/Striker.

You are concerned about the people trying to draw conversation away from Striker/Drake/Bard?
I'd be concerned of the opposite, as villagers should be soft clearing at the very least, Drake and Striker at this point. I also think Bard should be soft cleared.
The elims will want us to continue tunneling on those 3 people.

The fact that Bard broke the tie against Kidpen, is a factor in his favor as well.

Everyone beyond Bard, Rae/Devotary... I have had it in my head for a while that one of Rae/Devotary is likely an elim, and this makes me think that even more.  If Devotary is an elim, this will be quite the elim streak. xD

Being the first vote on Bard I'd say is mostly NAI on Elandera, but a Rae/Elandera team is very possible.
I'll have to re-evaluate Fifth's vote, as that, purely looking at the vote count, is a vote I'd suspect.

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20 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

You are concerned about the people trying to draw conversation away from Striker/Drake/Bard?

I think you misunderstood my sentence. I'm concerned about the people who have remained largely aloof from the debate, content to let us keep our narrow focus. 

Oh, I see it now. The 'not' doesn't belong in the last phrase. I think I changed my planned sentence part way through. I think my original sentence was "I'm concerned most about people who've been around, but not doing anything about our focus on Bard/Drake/Striker." 

That's my fault, I apologise. 

23 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

Everyone beyond Bard, Rae/Devotary... I have had it in my head for a while that one of Rae/Devotary is likely an elim, and this makes me think that even more.  If Devotary is an elim, this will be quite the elim streak.

I'm inclined to trust Rae for her attempted last-minute vote on Alvron. Devotary has me questioning, though. I want to look more closely at her posts and stances.

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1 minute ago, Elandera said:

I'm inclined to trust Rae for her attempted last-minute vote on Alvron. Devotary has me questioning, though. I want to look more closely at her posts and stances.

I suspect Rae less than Devotary right now, but as I think Alv was village, a hammer on him would have caused 2 villagers and 1 GM to die that turn instead of just 1 villager 1 GM... So that doesn't clear her to me.

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6 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

I suspect Rae less than Devotary right now, but as I think Alv was village, a hammer on him would have caused 2 villagers and 1 GM to die that turn instead of just 1 villager 1 GM... So that doesn't clear her to me.

We can always have someone use a ledger on him if we're unsure. If he's village, we'll know, and maybe something will come of having a ledger passed around the jail. 

We'd probably want a governor first, though, so we might have a chance to get it back. Or have someone dagger Alv the same turn so all items go back into circulation.

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Quote

Lynch Vote Tally
Kidpen (6): DrakeMarshmallow, Furamirionind, StrikerEZ, Young Bard, Arraenae, Devo
Young Bard (3): Elandera, Fifth Scholar, Kidpen
Fifth Scholar (1): Araris Valerian

If Kidpen really was an elim, then the votes on Bard come across as much more suspicious. Kidpen is obviously dead and I'm willing to extend Elandera the benefit of the doubt on this, because her tunnel seems like a village one, so I'm voting on Fifth.

11 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

I suspect Rae less than Devotary right now, but as I think Alv was village, a hammer on him would have caused 2 villagers and 1 GM to die that turn instead of just 1 villager 1 GM... So that doesn't clear her to me.

I wasn't attempting a hammer, I was just writing up an analysis post and lost track of the time trying to make it sound more coherent...

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I dunno how much time I have today, but I just wanted to say: redirecting Fura's scan cost 3 boxings. It would have cost 4 boxings to save Kidpen by bribing the lynch onto Bard.

Assuming the elims redirected Fura, which is likely, any idea why they would do that over saving Kidpen, who Fura's scan would suggest was an elim?

 

2 hours ago, Furamirionind said:

Ok... Now I'm confused... And yeah, I definitely confused which Ledger I had...

Anyways, I am still for claiming who has Whiskey, Warrants and Ledgers... I seriously doubt the elims have all of them, so I have no idea why no one is either responding with why we shouldn't claim those, or with their claims.

Just so everyone knows, I was not protected with whiskey last night, which I definitely think I should have been...

When I got the ledger, it just said "Ledger" I was not told any name. I'm not sure if this was a mistake. I am also confused.

 

1 hour ago, Furamirionind said:

Everyone beyond Bard, Rae/Devotary... I have had it in my head for a while that one of Rae/Devotary is likely an elim, and this makes me think that even more.  If Devotary is an elim, this will be quite the elim streak. xD

Being the first vote on Bard I'd say is mostly NAI on Elandera, but a Rae/Elandera team is very possible.
I'll have to re-evaluate Fifth's vote, as that, purely looking at the vote count, is a vote I'd suspect.

Kind of have a similar vibe that at least one of Rae and Devotary could be an elim.

I feel like Rae/Elandera were supporting each other too openly to be a team but I could be wrong.

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4 minutes ago, DrakeMarshmallow said:

I feel like Rae/Elandera were supporting each other too openly to be a team but I could be wrong.

yeah, you're probably right.

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If anyone is found to have an item after not having claimed that item, I'm going to push for thier lynch.

I have explained why its pro village to claim, yet only Striker and Drake have been doing that. Maybe Striker Drake and myself are the only villagers in the entire game? 

If there is no reason not to claim, and there is reason to claim, the right thing to do is claim. I find it hard to believe that every single item in the game has fallen to the elims. So I am a tad frustrated by the villages lack of working together.

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Posted (edited)

PSA: I am redoing my Spreadsheet and generally updating things, no many of you have already, or will soon be receiving PM's and Corrections. In addition, if you look at the OP of turn 6, xxGaea now has TWO ledgers for sale. I apologize for any mistakes I have made, and will be correcting and pointing out which ones I can.

Also, I will only be online for another 3ish, 4ish hours. After that, I will likely be offline until about 6 hours pre-rollover tommorow. Please ask any questions that you have now.

Edited by A Joe in the Bush
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40 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

If anyone is found to have an item after not having claimed that item, I'm going to push for thier lynch.

I have explained why its pro village to claim, yet only Striker and Drake have been doing that. Maybe Striker Drake and myself are the only villagers in the entire game? 

If there is no reason not to claim, and there is reason to claim, the right thing to do is claim. I find it hard to believe that every single item in the game has fallen to the elims. So I am a tad frustrated by the villages lack of working together.

I disagree. I have never been a fan of claiming and probably never will, no matter what style of game I'm playing. 

One of the main advantages elims have over village is knowledge. Roles, or in this case items, are where village holds the advantage.

This game has too many interference mechanics that anyone can carry out as long as they have boxings. The elims seem to have proven they have boxings in abundance. 

So please, do not confuse my reluctance to claim with being an elim. I do not claim because that would give a huge advantage away. 

Say I had whiskey and claimed. Elims could either redirect my action in hopes of gaining control over the item, or use a warrant to just outright steal it. 

If we let elims know exactly where all the items are, they'll know exactly who to bribe/stab/steal from. 

Also, I understand your frustrations. This is a bit of a chaotic game with some interesting mechanics. I caution you, however, to push so demandingly for your view to be the only correct view. People have different styles of playing, which is part of what makes this game fun. 

This does make me believe you're village, at least. This much passion is rare in elims.

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3 minutes ago, Elandera said:

I disagree. I have never been a fan of claiming and probably never will, no matter what style of game I'm playing. 

Exactly.

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, Elandera said:

I disagree. I have never been a fan of claiming and probably never will, no matter what style of game I'm playing. 

One of the main advantages elims have over village is knowledge. Roles, or in this case items, are where village holds the advantage.

This game has too many interference mechanics that anyone can carry out as long as they have boxings. The elims seem to have proven they have boxings in abundance. 

So please, do not confuse my reluctance to claim with being an elim. I do not claim because that would give a huge advantage away. 

Say I had whiskey and claimed. Elims could either redirect my action in hopes of gaining control over the item, or use a warrant to just outright steal it. 

If we let elims know exactly where all the items are, they'll know exactly who to bribe/stab/steal from. 

Also, I understand your frustrations. This is a bit of a chaotic game with some interesting mechanics. I caution you, however, to push so demandingly for your view to be the only correct view. People have different styles of playing, which is part of what makes this game fun. 

This does make me believe you're village, at least. This much passion is rare in elims.

Thank you for being one of the few people this game to respond to me.

The reason I went so far as to say I'd try to lynch someone, is everyone just was ignoring me. (Though I did mean it)

You point, while valid, I think has 1 fundamental flaw, you are assuming the items are worth more than the boxings... and... they are. However, if we can get boxings out of elim hands, that is also a huge advantage. It works both ways.

1. We can be super secretive, giving the village an advantage, but also making it harder to know who to trust.
2. We can be open, giving the elims a disadvantage, but on top of that also helping give us a better idea of who to trust.

They are both valid, though I still believe the second to be better long term. short term, I agree that secrecy is better.

Edit:

I like to play this game proactively. I like to make the first move, guess where my opponent is going to move, and observe what they actually do. That is how I have played from C1.  This is why my playstyle changes so much based on the rulesets. however the proactive play here, is to be public with info. It forces the elims to show their hand, tell us about them. Do they care about the items? which items do they target? do they try to kill those people? how many boxings do they have?
This is what playing playing proactively tells us.

Edited by Furamirionind
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1 hour ago, Furamirionind said:

If anyone is found to have an item after not having claimed that item, I'm going to push for thier lynch.

I have explained why its pro village to claim, yet only Striker and Drake have been doing that. Maybe Striker Drake and myself are the only villagers in the entire game? 

If there is no reason not to claim, and there is reason to claim, the right thing to do is claim. I find it hard to believe that every single item in the game has fallen to the elims. So I am a tad frustrated by the villages lack of working together.

 

49 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

I like to play this game proactively. I like to make the first move, guess where my opponent is going to move, and observe what they actually do. That is how I have played from C1.  This is why my playstyle changes so much based on the rulesets. however the proactive play here, is to be public with info. It forces the elims to show their hand, tell us about them. Do they care about the items? which items do they target? do they try to kill those people? how many boxings do they have?
This is what playing playing proactively tells us.

Unfortunately, the way that you like to play the game may not be the way others like to play the game. There comes a point where one might be told that opposition to doing x is un-villagery, and therefore they must do x or else. At that point, people start to feel like they have no agency, and are just glorified extra votes and actions. Some people will go along with it, others won't. People in SE have historically decided before that they would rather be lynched than have their actions dictated to them, and once that happens, the whole system breaks down. A better way to achieve village cooperation would be to explain why it would be beneficial if people acted in a certain way, and do not force it as a way to prove villageriness.

Personally, I missed the first post where you explained why you wanted people to claim items, and am too tired to look for it. I'd appreciate it if you reiterated why you think it will be helpful.

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Posted (edited)

"Ahem...Senator Diez (@Elandera)? It would be much more difficult for one such as yourself to get very far in life with out transparency. I agree, finding the corrupt senators is imperative and quite a fragile topic. Which is why it would be a pane to have to do this on your own. Now I believe that one in a glass house shouldn't throw stones so I was open about receiving Simuljustusetpeccator, the warrant. As it's namesake suggests, all people are just and right in their own view. I understand that you believe in a secretive, protective aura of suspense where we keep our secrets to ourselves. The Warrant's name then says that, from a different perspective, you could be considered wrong and a sinner Elim. I understand that the only way we can defeat the Corrupt is by banding together and being honest. Without the ability to privately share secrets trust has become all the more important, a government scared to make the smallest change is no government at all. I do not wish to change your opinions like a mirror reverses words, I just believe that we must fuse together to bring a new era of hope to the trodden down people of the city. I hope my argument has come across to you crystal glass clear."

(Credit to @DrakeMarshmallow for some glass puns.)

Edited by Butt Ad Venture
OOPS! Meant Warrant, NOT Ledger! Sorry!
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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Arraenae said:

Unfortunately, the way that you like to play the game may not be the way others like to play the game. There comes a point where one might be told that opposition to doing x is un-villagery, and therefore they must do x or else. At that point, people start to feel like they have no agency, and are just glorified extra votes and actions. Some people will go along with it, others won't. People in SE have historically decided before that they would rather be lynched than have their actions dictated to them, and once that happens, the whole system breaks down. A better way to achieve village cooperation would be to explain why it would be beneficial if people acted in a certain way, and do not force it as a way to prove villageriness.

Personally, I missed the first post where you explained why you wanted people to claim items, and am too tired to look for it. I'd appreciate it if you reiterated why you think it will be helpful.

I understand, no one like being told what to do. But im too tired to go into my reasoning right now, and I have tried enough to work with you guys this game.

no one listened, or even acknowledged said reasoning.

so I will say my opinion. Which takes significantly less effort from me than explaining everything.

you can listen or not.

I will be minimally active over the weekend. You wont have to worry about a pushy Fura then anyways.

Edited by Furamirionind
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@Butt Ad Venture Posts like that make me sad that downvoting is no longer a feature :P. Also, seeing as this may be one of my last posts this game, I have a Warrant (or I assume I do, since I was targeted with one).

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1 hour ago, Arraenae said:

Personally, I missed the first post where you explained why you wanted people to claim items, and am too tired to look for it. I'd appreciate it if you reiterated why you think it will be helpful.

I went back a few turns to skim Fura's posts, and this is what I found for reasoning:

Quote

Can I pls have a whiskey tonight?

I still cant think of any disadvantages for claiming who has whiskey

I think someone else had suggested sending Whiskey to Fura, but I'm not looking that closely at the moment. I need to turn my focus to the other game.

10 hours ago, Furamirionind said:

Anyways, I am still for claiming who has Whiskey, Warrants and Ledgers... I seriously doubt the elims have all of them, so I have no idea why no one is either responding with why we shouldn't claim those, or with their claims.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier to your request, Fura. My natural inclination, as stated before, is to not claim and just be very cautious about approaching the subject in general. As in, I avoid it entirely. :P

However, I don't see the reasoning. Butt Ad Venture does a pretty good job of explaining what I think may be Fura's point, though.

1 hour ago, Butt Ad Venture said:

"Ahem...Senator Diez (@Elandera)? It would be much more difficult for one such as yourself to get very far in life with out transparency. I agree, finding the corrupt senators is imperative and quite a fragile topic. Which is why it would be a pane to have to do this on your own. Now I believe that one in a glass house shouldn't throw stones so I was open about receiving Simuljustusetpeccator, the warrant. As it's namesake suggests, all people are just and right in their own view. I understand that you believe in a secretive, protective aura of suspense where we keep our secrets to ourselves. The Warrant's name then says that, from a different perspective, you could be considered wrong and a sinner Elim. I understand that the only way we can defeat the Corrupt is by banding together and being honest. Without the ability to privately share secrets trust has become all the more important, a government scared to make the smallest change is no government at all. I do not wish to change your opinions like a mirror reverses words, I just believe that we must fuse together to bring a new era of hope to the trodden down people of the city. I hope my argument has come across to you crystal glass clear."

For those that don't want to read all those terrible puns, his point is transparency is good if we actually want to work together.

I'm hoping to make amends a bit, and get this game moving in the right direction, so I'm going to very reluctantly claim. I have a warrant as well.

I do still think it would be a good idea for someone with a ledger and dagger to attack Alvron tonight, so we can know for sure his alignment. This is part of why I don't think claiming things like ledgers and whiskey is a good idea. If people with ledgers all claim, elims will know which people to redirect to avoid the wrong people being scanned.

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Posted (edited)

DrakeMarshmallow, StrikerEZ, Elandera, Furamirionind

Fifth Scholar, Haelbarde, Arraenae, Venture, Devotary, Snipexe, 

Bard, Araris - might both be inactive after this point

Bugsy, HH, Rath, Shqueeves

 

Here are the players left in this game.

Bold are people taking part in leading discussion.

Italics are people who have a post here and there. They are also the bandwagoners.

Nothing are the inactives.

This game isnt even half over.

I apologize for telling everyone what to do, I apologize for acting as a know it all (though that is my natural state), I appologise for pushing everyone really far, and

3 hours ago, Arraenae said:

Unfortunately, the way that you like to play the game may not be the way others like to play the game. There comes a point where one might be told that opposition to doing x is un-villagery, and therefore they must do x or else. At that point, people start to feel like they have no agency, and are just glorified extra votes and actions. Some people will go along with it, others won't. People in SE have historically decided before that they would rather be lynched than have their actions dictated to them, and once that happens, the whole system breaks down. A better way to achieve village cooperation would be to explain why it would be beneficial if people acted in a certain way, and do not force it as a way to prove villageriness.

I appologise to Rae as I either offended you or came across as a someone selfishly trying to push my opinions onto others. (Or both)

This game to me, is starting to feel like a back and forth between Elandera and myself.

55 minutes ago, Elandera said:

I'm hoping to make amends a bit, and get this game moving in the right direction, so I'm going to very reluctantly claim. I have a warrant as well.

No matter what I do, I fail.

I'm not trying to force people to play in a method that they dont find fun, or into something they dont want to do. What I have realized, is these past couple days, 50% of the thread has been dictated by me. I dont think that's fun. This game feels to me like it is stagnating due to a lack of player participation. I'm trying to change something up, that will change the way we play the game, which will make it interesting for me again, and will *hopefully* draw back people who are semi active. It will also give players that are active, something new to analyse.

I should have made it clear from the beginning, that this was my end goal. (I also skimmed my previous messages, and while I wrote a detailed post as to why we should be claiming, perhaps I didnt post it? I couldnt find it)

An alternative method, is I suspect the daggers are being hoarded by the villagers. If we start going crazy on kills, we are bound to hit a couple elims right? It becomes a game of chance, but its differant. The reason this wasnt my first choice, was because I'm totally ok with slow deaths. There just has to still be stuff to analyze.

There might be more alternatives too. Idk.

Whatever you, the players pick, I will support. Even if none of you think there is any problem with how things are going right now.

I just cant promise I'm going to continue putting 110% of myself into this game, if it continues as it is.

Edited by Furamirionind
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