Cremlin Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 I’ve read WoR twice and am in the process of re-reading OB and I knew that there was a crossover in OB but I didn’t know anyone else crossed over (except Nightblood) Well, I ended up to the coppermind for something entirely different and fell into the rabbit hole that led me to Azure and Zahel How the heck did anyone know/guess who they actually are and is their identity confirmed by Brandon Sanderson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 Brandon said that Vivenna was in OB before it was released, so a lot of people made the connection that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Q10fanatic Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 1. Their identity has been confirmed. Brandon has gone so far as to describe Warbreaker as a prequel for the Stormlight Archive, which suggests that they could be fairly important to the series. 2. Have you read many of the other Cosmere books or have you been Cosmere-aware as you've been reading many of the books? Brandon likes to give little clues about Worldhoppers, they often seem a little out of place, common hints are their language or accents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cremlin Posted July 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said: 1. Their identity has been confirmed. Brandon has gone so far as to describe Warbreaker as a prequel for the Stormlight Archive, which suggests that they could be fairly important to the series. 2. Have you read many of the other Cosmere books or have you been Cosmere-aware as you've been reading many of the books? Brandon likes to give little clues about Worldhoppers, they often seem a little out of place, common hints are their language or accents. I’ve read most of the cosmere except for the short stories and mistborn second era. I guess I just don’t pay enough attention though dang I am fairly new to the cosmere/brandon sanderson so I haven’t really read anything about the books before/after they were released. I didn’t know what I was getting myself into when I jumped into this haha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cremlin Posted July 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, RShara said: Brandon said that Vivenna was in OB before it was released, so a lot of people made the connection that way. I see - it didn’t occur to me to look up what Brandon’s said about who would appear in his books I have research to do now haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Cremlin said: I see - it didn’t occur to me to look up what Brandon’s said about who would appear in his books I have research to do now haha wob.coppermind.net 11,000 WoBs and counting! Kiss your free time goodbye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 Welcome to the bottomless rabbit-hole that is the Cosmere. xD Anyhow, Zahel gives his identiy away pretty easily once you know what to look for: His appearance and clothing are described in a similar manner to Vasher in Warbreaker (the long hair/scruffy beard combo and using a rope for a belt are giveaways), Kaladin notices that his eyes seem 'old' while his body doesn't and he uses extremely odd expressions related to flowers and to colors that nobody on Roshar understands. This last one is almost always a tell that the person is a worldhopper, with the unusual expressions being a quirk of the way they're able to understand and speak local languages without necessarily learning them. He also can sense Syl's presence and knows when Kaladin is nearby before he actually knocks (which is his BioChroma lifesense working) and he uses Cosmere-aware terms for phenomenon that native Rosharans don't. A big one is that he describes highstorms as Invested, which only worldhoppers use. He also notes that he expects to hear a voice in his head but hasn't for quite some time, referring to Nightblood. Azure has a color-oriented name that's not at all Alethi-sounding and it (and her choice of outfits) just happens to match her use of the color blue by the end of Warbreaker. She's noted to be on the short side, which on Roshar is something to keep an eye on because people on that planet are taller on average than humans on other worlds. When you see her fighting she does some Awakening (and her men describe phenomenon that can be recognized as the same thing when telling Kaladin about her) and her sword stands out for a couple reasons; it clearly does something unusual since whatever it kills has the color bleached out to a shade of gray (the same as a Lifeless) and it's clearly not a Rosharan Shardblade because the spren she shows it to make a big deal out of how it isn't made from one of them. Like Zahel she uses color-related expressions that puzzle people around her. Also, her hair visibly changes color when she's exhausted. All of these would point to her identity even without Brandon giving us advance notice to look for Vivenna in Oathbringer. The fact that she explains that she's hunting for Zahel and a sword he brought with him just makes it especially obvious. There's probably other clues I'm forgetting right now but that gives you an idea how much detail Brandon sneaks in and what sorts of things to keep an eye out for in the future. Keep your eyes peeled on a reread (or just peruse the Coppermind a bit) and you'll probably spot a few more worldhoppers... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 9 hours ago, Cremlin said: How the heck did anyone know/guess who they actually are and is their identity confirmed by Brandon Sanderson? Don't worry about it - some people are just better at spotting those kinds of things. I missed almost every single appearance of Hoid. I had read through all of Mistborn + WoK/WoR before finding out that the two series were connected... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneonfoxtribute Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 Another hint to Vivenna is that she talks about a princess who left her kingdom rather than rule it, which is all but said to be her. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 9 hours ago, RShara said: wob.coppermind.net 11,000 WoBs and counting! Kiss your free time goodbye Slightly manic laughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cremlin Posted July 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 On 7/23/2019 at 10:17 PM, Weltall said: Welcome to the bottomless rabbit-hole that is the Cosmere. xD Anyhow, Zahel gives his identiy away pretty easily once you know what to look for: His appearance and clothing are described in a similar manner to Vasher in Warbreaker (the long hair/scruffy beard combo and using a rope for a belt are giveaways), Kaladin notices that his eyes seem 'old' while his body doesn't and he uses extremely odd expressions related to flowers and to colors that nobody on Roshar understands. This last one is almost always a tell that the person is a worldhopper, with the unusual expressions being a quirk of the way they're able to understand and speak local languages without necessarily learning them. He also can sense Syl's presence and knows when Kaladin is nearby before he actually knocks (which is his BioChroma lifesense working) and he uses Cosmere-aware terms for phenomenon that native Rosharans don't. A big one is that he describes highstorms as Invested, which only worldhoppers use. He also notes that he expects to hear a voice in his head but hasn't for quite some time, referring to Nightblood. Azure has a color-oriented name that's not at all Alethi-sounding and it (and her choice of outfits) just happens to match her use of the color blue by the end of Warbreaker. She's noted to be on the short side, which on Roshar is something to keep an eye on because people on that planet are taller on average than humans on other worlds. When you see her fighting she does some Awakening (and her men describe phenomenon that can be recognized as the same thing when telling Kaladin about her) and her sword stands out for a couple reasons; it clearly does something unusual since whatever it kills has the color bleached out to a shade of gray (the same as a Lifeless) and it's clearly not a Rosharan Shardblade because the spren she shows it to make a big deal out of how it isn't made from one of them. Like Zahel she uses color-related expressions that puzzle people around her. Also, her hair visibly changes color when she's exhausted. All of these would point to her identity even without Brandon giving us advance notice to look for Vivenna in Oathbringer. The fact that she explains that she's hunting for Zahel and a sword he brought with him just makes it especially obvious. There's probably other clues I'm forgetting right now but that gives you an idea how much detail Brandon sneaks in and what sorts of things to keep an eye out for in the future. Keep your eyes peeled on a reread (or just peruse the Coppermind a bit) and you'll probably spot a few more worldhoppers... Well...I mean if you’re just going to spell it out like that haha I literally caught none of that and now that I’m at the part w/Azure in OB...it’s so dang obvious! Especially after reading what you’ve written here. I just need to be more cosmere-aware as I read these books. I rarely read short stories but I think I’m going to make an exception for Brandon because I feel like this would maybe help me recognize other world-hoppers and help me have a grasp on other background events I swear I’ve never been so invested in a universe before reading Brandon Thank you so much for your help btw - I totally didn’t connect any of those things until I read your paragraph and then everything clicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cremlin Posted July 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 16 hours ago, aneonfoxtribute said: Another hint to Vivenna is that she talks about a princess who left her kingdom rather than rule it, which is all but said to be her. I missed that apparently but I will definitely be on the lookout for it now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cremlin Posted July 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 16 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said: Don't worry about it - some people are just better at spotting those kinds of things. I missed almost every single appearance of Hoid. I had read through all of Mistborn + WoK/WoR before finding out that the two series were connected... I haven’t read mistborn second era yet and I only recognized him when they mentioned him by name in Hero of Ages Does he appear more than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cremlin Posted July 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 On 7/23/2019 at 9:29 PM, RShara said: wob.coppermind.net 11,000 WoBs and counting! Kiss your free time goodbye Like I have any free time left after starting The cosmere haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 7 hours ago, Cremlin said: I haven’t read mistborn second era yet and I only recognized him when they mentioned him by name in Hero of Ages Does he appear more than that? He appears in almost everyone of Brandon's works (every novel, some of the shorter works). Have you checked out the Coppermind yet? It's basically the Cosmere Wikipedia. Hoid's article has a list of all of his appearances: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Hoid#History. P.s. Double (or quad) posting is against the site rules. If you need to add something to a previous post, you can use the "edit" button. Or, if you want to reply to multiple people you can do it all in the same post. You can quote additional people by using the "plus" sign (multi-quote) or by highlighting the passage you want to quote and hovering over it with the cursor, which will display the "quote this" option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Q10fanatic Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 8 hours ago, Cremlin said: Does he appear more than that? You have some fun times ahead of you! Reading Brandon's books, especially looking our for various Cosmere easter eggs, can be a tall order. If you like listening to podcasts, there are several that delve into various cosmere related topics and explain them in a way that much easier to understand than trying to brute force your way through the novels and short stories. Shardcast is extremely detail-oriented and I think is the longest-running cosmere podcast. Cosmere Conversations has done a whole series of introductory episodes on various big-picture concepts, including Hoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfphelps Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 On 7/24/2019 at 1:17 AM, Weltall said: Welcome to the bottomless rabbit-hole that is the Cosmere. xD Anyhow, Zahel gives his identiy away pretty easily once you know what to look for: His appearance and clothing are described in a similar manner to Vasher in Warbreaker (the long hair/scruffy beard combo and using a rope for a belt are giveaways), Kaladin notices that his eyes seem 'old' while his body doesn't and he uses extremely odd expressions related to flowers and to colors that nobody on Roshar understands. This last one is almost always a tell that the person is a worldhopper, with the unusual expressions being a quirk of the way they're able to understand and speak local languages without necessarily learning them. He also can sense Syl's presence and knows when Kaladin is nearby before he actually knocks (which is his BioChroma lifesense working) and he uses Cosmere-aware terms for phenomenon that native Rosharans don't. A big one is that he describes highstorms as Invested, which only worldhoppers use. He also notes that he expects to hear a voice in his head but hasn't for quite some time, referring to Nightblood. Azure has a color-oriented name that's not at all Alethi-sounding and it (and her choice of outfits) just happens to match her use of the color blue by the end of Warbreaker. She's noted to be on the short side, which on Roshar is something to keep an eye on because people on that planet are taller on average than humans on other worlds. When you see her fighting she does some Awakening (and her men describe phenomenon that can be recognized as the same thing when telling Kaladin about her) and her sword stands out for a couple reasons; it clearly does something unusual since whatever it kills has the color bleached out to a shade of gray (the same as a Lifeless) and it's clearly not a Rosharan Shardblade because the spren she shows it to make a big deal out of how it isn't made from one of them. Like Zahel she uses color-related expressions that puzzle people around her. Also, her hair visibly changes color when she's exhausted. All of these would point to her identity even without Brandon giving us advance notice to look for Vivenna in Oathbringer. The fact that she explains that she's hunting for Zahel and a sword he brought with him just makes it especially obvious. There's probably other clues I'm forgetting right now but that gives you an idea how much detail Brandon sneaks in and what sorts of things to keep an eye out for in the future. Keep your eyes peeled on a reread (or just peruse the Coppermind a bit) and you'll probably spot a few more worldhoppers... I also didn't spot it initially since I didn't read WB until way too late, but now that I've read WB twice and am on my third read through of the other SA books, a lot of these hints stand out pretty strongly. Azure also knows the warm up kata that Zahel taught Adolin and Kaladin as part of their sword training, so if you've realized Zahel is Vasher by that point, that's another clue, even before Azure mentions she's looking for Vasher and Nightblood to them when they leave the honor spren ship. Iirc Vasher's clothing is described as color leached out or faded color as well when Kaladin first meets him, so that's another clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsecaller_17.5 Posted July 27, 2019 Report Share Posted July 27, 2019 On 7/24/2019 at 11:46 PM, Cremlin said: I swear I’ve never been so invested in a universe before reading Brandon Don’t you mean Invested? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wander89 Posted July 27, 2019 Report Share Posted July 27, 2019 4 hours ago, Truthwatcher_17.5 said: Don’t you mean Invested? I understood that reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 On 7/24/2019 at 0:07 AM, Cremlin said: How the heck did anyone know/guess who they actually are and is their identity confirmed by Brandon Sanderson? Color metaphors. Azure's hair changes color a couple times. When talking about herself she describes her story from Warbreaker. She moves cloth around and has it cut into a lot of shapes. Then she helpfully IDs Vasher for us by saying that "he is an old friend". Vivenna's friend list is fairly short and he fits Vasher's description perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Wander89 said: I understood that reference. Sigh. Really Captain America? Your like everyone's grandfather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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