Is Spook a Ghostblood?

[Toaster Retribution]

I listened to the latest episode of Shardcast, and I got interested in this particular WoB:

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Where have we seen proto-Ghostbloods?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

RAFO, but you guys are pretty close to figuring that out.

The podcasters discussed this a little bit, and connected Brandons response to Kelsier, since Kelsier somehow being involved with the Ghostblods is a common theory. But if it was Kelsier, we wouldn’t be pretty close. We would be there. But someone close to Kelsier? Someone who has been seen as a Survivor, like Kelsier. That someone is Spook.

We know that Spook is Cosmere-aware. We also know that he left his position as king and disappeared. But we do not know where he went after that, or what he is up to. I suggest that he became a Ghostblood. 

Furthermore, I think Spook is a word that has something to do with ghosts (not sure about this, please correct me if it isnt so). If so, that is another connection. 

What do you guys think?

 

[Elegy]

Kelsier has not left Scadrial yet, so him being a Ghostblood is highly unlikely. I also believe that for speculations like these, there has to be some basis for it, and there is nothing that half-decently suggests Spook being a Ghostblood. I understand why people tend to go overboard with guessing worldhoppers and connections between the stories, but you basically end up with every second character out of two being a possible worldhopper/founder of organizations/historical figure in other cultures. I personally don't think fruitful, although, like I said, I understand why those leanings would be there.

The origin of Spook's name has nothing to do with ghosts btw:

Quote

JWMeep

It seemed that Kelsier was fluent in Spook's street dialect, and even conversed with Spook in the dialect at one point. So I'm assuming Kelsier knew what Lestibournes really meant, and being who Kelsier was, giving him a new name probably was more about building the boy up, rather than just the length. That said, why Spook? If he was trying to boost Spook's self confidence, why use a name like that?

Brandon Sanderson

It's an inside joke between them. "Spook" means "Sneaky" or "Clever" in the street slang. It was a compliment.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Elegy

[Toaster Retribution]

8 minutes ago, Elegy said:

Kelsier has not left Scadrial yet, so him being a Ghostblood is highly unlikely. I also believe that for speculations like these, there has to be some basis for it, and there is nothing that half-decently suggests Spook being a Ghostblood. I understand why people tend to go overboard with guessing worldhoppers and connections between the stories, but you basically end up with every second character out of two being a possible worldhopper/founder of organizations/historical figure in other cultures. I personally don't think fruitful, although, like I said, I understand why those leanings would be there.

The origin of Spook's name has nothing to do with ghosts btw:

 

To answer your first point about Kelsier, it is unlikely, agreed, but certainly not impossible. We know that Iyatil is from Southern Scadrial, even though she has since spent time in Silverlight. And the Ghostbloods are worldhoppers, and I dont think it unlikely that they spread out, and have people on several different planets. Thus, they could recruit Kelsier as an operative on Scadrial. Not likely, but defenitely not impossible. 

Also, the one thing that suggests Spook as a Ghostblood is the WoB above. Kelsier being a Ghostblood is a common question for Brandon, and so it wouldn´t be unlikely for Brandon to be referring to those questions in his answer. The only three people close to Kelsier who are alive are Sazed, Marsh and Spook. And out of those three, Spook is defenitely the most likely candidate. 

Also, yeah, I know that that is the origin of Spooks name, but isn´t spook also a word in the english language? It is not my native language, so I´m not sure. It does remind me of the swedish word for ghost, which is spöke, but that is defenitely a coincidence. 

[Ripheus23]

23 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Also, yeah, I know that that is the origin of Spooks name, but isn´t spook also a word in the english language? It is not my native language, so I´m not sure. It does remind me of the swedish word for ghost, which is spöke, but that is defenitely a coincidence. 

You're right, "ghost" and "spook" and "specter" are all related. Along with "wraith" and "shade" and "apparition" and so on, although the actual words, not their meanings, are more linked there. And we (Americans) picked up on "poltergeist," too, which goes to "geist" to "ghost."

[Toaster Retribution]

Just now, Ripheus23 said:

You're right, "ghost" and "spook" and "specter" are all related. Along with "wraith" and "shade" and "apparition" and so on, although the actual words, not their meanings, are more linked there. And we (Americans) picked up on "poltergeist," too, which goes to "geist" to "ghost."

Thanks. That was what I thought. If you don´t mind, what exactly does spook mean?

[Ripheus23]

1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Thanks. That was what I thought. If you don´t mind, what exactly does spook mean?

We usually use it as in, "I got spooked by..." which (probably?) started out as a reference to "seeing ghosts" but now is (usually?) used to refer to when people are doing something clandestine/covert/w/e and they notice someone or something "questionable" and so they abandon their task because they "got spooked."

EDIT: So if you think about it, it's the perfect name for a Ghostblood!

Edited July 15, 2019 by Ripheus23

[Quantus]

17 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Thanks. That was what I thought. If you don´t mind, what exactly does spook mean?

 

16 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

We usually use it as in, "I got spooked by..." which (probably?) started out as a reference to "seeing ghosts" but now is (usually?) used to refer to when people are doing something clandestine/covert/w/e and they notice someone or something "questionable" and so they abandon their task because they "got spooked."

EDIT: So if you think about it, it's the perfect name for a Ghostblood!

Now Im curious.  Turns out "Spook" is a borrowed dutch word that literally means "Ghost".  It became a verb as a secondary usage for Fear, typically in the context of something that makes you  "frightened or unnerved", though in usage it's either something that is vaguely unnerving (like a spooky house or forest) or it's more like startled (ie "the horse got spooked by the sudden noise").  In North America it also became synonymous with shadowy Men In Black style spies or government agents, because they are ghost-like in the sense of how they dont officially exist, can figuratively walk through walls, etc. (not sure how broadly that usage has made it to the rest of the world, sounds to me like a US Cold-war era evolution).  Middle of the 20th century in the US it was also a derogatory term for somebody with African ancestry, though I doubt that last one would ever be particularly relevant to any Cosmere usage. 

[Karger]

2 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Also, the one thing that suggests Spook as a Ghostblood is the WoB above. Kelsier being a Ghostblood is a common question for Brandon, and so it wouldn´t be unlikely for Brandon to be referring to those questions in his answer. The only three people close to Kelsier who are alive are Sazed, Marsh and Spook. And out of those three, Spook is defenitely the most likely candidate. 

Kelsier spent quite a bit of time with the southerners.  I personally think that the hunters are the proto ghostbloods.

[Fezzik]

3 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

We know that Iyatil is from Southern Scadrial, even though she has since spent time in Silverlight.

Iyatil is not from SoScad like that.

https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=Iyatil+danish

[Toaster Retribution]

7 minutes ago, John203 said:

Iyatil is not from SoScad like that.

https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=Iyatil+danish

Right, thanks, I got that wrong. Iyatil is from Denmark (just kidding).

I still dont feel like the Ghostbloods would not recruit people on Scadrial. 

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

I feel like there is one missing piece here if this is correct in the name of the Ghostbloods. 

If Spook literally means Ghost as a connection point, the "blood" part of the name could easily be a reference back to Hemalurgy right? 

Even if Spook was the founder and you want to say that in Cosmere since Spook doesn't mean "Ghost", he could have come up with the name as an homage to Kelsier's status as a cognitive shadow or something, effectively a ghost in the Cognitive Realm haunting Spook. 

Or it could be more simple than Ghost = Spook/Kelsier in homage + Blood = Hemalurgy, it could be more like "Ghostblood = 'We're the blood of the Ghost, continuing his work in the Cosmere'". 

This is a fun theory. I don't know if it'll be right, but I like the creativity!

Edited July 15, 2019 by Green Hoodie Mistborn

[+Artemos]

7 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

I feel like there is one missing piece here if this is correct in the name of the Ghostbloods. 

If Spook literally means Ghost as a connection point, the "blood" part of the name could easily be a reference back to Hemalurgy right? 

Even if Spook was the founder and you want to say that in Cosmere since Spook doesn't mean "Ghost", he could have come up with the name as an homage to Kelsier's status as a cognitive shadow or something, effectively a ghost in the Cognitive Realm haunting Spook. 

Or it could be more simple than Ghost = Spook/Kelsier in homage + Blood = Hemalurgy, it could be more like "Ghostblood = 'We're the blood of the Ghost, continuing his work in the Cosmere'". 

This is a fun theory. I don't know if it'll be right, but I like the creativity!

One theory I've heard is that the Ghostbloods have origins on Threnody, which has strong associations with shades (ghosts) and blood (shed blood, and the shades attack).

[+TheFoxQR]

4 hours ago, Artemos said:

One theory I've heard is that the Ghostbloods have origins on Threnody, which has strong associations with shades (ghosts) and blood (shed blood, and the shades attack).

Yep, Threnody and Scadrial are the two primary candidates for the origin of the Ghostbloods.

 

15 hours ago, Elegy said:

Kelsier has not left Scadrial yet, so him being a Ghostblood is highly unlikely.

This might be a bit nitpick-y, but I don't think that confirms Kelsier not having left Scadrial. Only that it would be very hard for him to in the state we last saw him in; either Secret History or his "Survive" vision. Imo he has to first sever his connections to Scadrial.

[RShara]

17 minutes ago, TheFoxQR said:

This might be a bit nitpick-y, but I don't think that confirms Kelsier not having left Scadrial. Only that it would be very hard for him to in the state we last saw him in; either Secret History or his "Survive" vision. Imo he has to first sever his connections to Scadrial.

Quote

Questioner

Has Kelsier done any worldhopping?

Brandon Sanderson

Kelsier is bound to Scadrial the same way that a spren is bound to Roshar, because of the level of Investiture and the type and the way it happened. It is possible to get offworld but he does not know what it is.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

 

[+TheFoxQR]

7 hours ago, RShara said:

 

Yeah, I know this.

All I'm saying is, the one @Elegy pointed to as proof wasn't proof enough.

Thus the nitpick.

[Elegy]

38 minutes ago, TheFoxQR said:

Yeah, I know this.

All I'm saying is, the one @Elegy pointed to as proof wasn't proof enough.

Thus the nitpick.

Woops yeah. That's what happens sometimes when you know something has been confirmed, search for a WOB and settle for the next best one because you read the things you searched into it. Sorry for that. But anyways, no worldhopping Kelsier as of now.

Regarding the original post: I now see the possible clues for it, so I was kinda rush - sorry for that as well. I intitially thought Brandon meant some 17th Shard member that was hired since he previously confirmed that that's a thing the Ghostbloods do. Although I still don't think he means "close" as "someone close to Kelsier" in that WOB.

[Toaster Retribution]

23 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

I feel like there is one missing piece here if this is correct in the name of the Ghostbloods. 

If Spook literally means Ghost as a connection point, the "blood" part of the name could easily be a reference back to Hemalurgy right? 

Even if Spook was the founder and you want to say that in Cosmere since Spook doesn't mean "Ghost", he could have come up with the name as an homage to Kelsier's status as a cognitive shadow or something, effectively a ghost in the Cognitive Realm haunting Spook. 

Or it could be more simple than Ghost = Spook/Kelsier in homage + Blood = Hemalurgy, it could be more like "Ghostblood = 'We're the blood of the Ghost, continuing his work in the Cosmere'". 

This is a fun theory. I don't know if it'll be right, but I like the creativity!

Thanks for elaborating on it. The spike thing is the most creative part, I think. I like your idea a lot!

[Yolenlightweaver]

Do we know what connection Kelsier has to Spook in current day? We know last we saw Kelsier before the time jump he is a cognitive shadow speaking with Spook. Is it possible he got hemalurgically stapled to someone? Just throwing out a random name.... to Spook? Or am I just stabbing in the dark?

[Elegy]

1 hour ago, Yolenlightweaver said:

Do we know what connection Kelsier has to Spook in current day? We know last we saw Kelsier before the time jump he is a cognitive shadow speaking with Spook. Is it possible he got hemalurgically stapled to someone? Just throwing out a random name.... to Spook? Or am I just stabbing in the dark?

We have a WOB on this:

Quote

Questioner

In Bands of Mourning, we learned that the Sovereign, who they confused as being the Lord Ruler, came after the Catacendre. [He] was their god, was their king and god. And then Kelsier looking for a string. Is the spike somehow connecting Kelsier's soul to Spook's body.

Brandon Sanderson

No, good question. It is connecting his soul with his body, his current body, but it is not Spook's body. That's a great theory.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

 

[Quantus]

22 hours ago, Yolenlightweaver said:

Do we know what connection Kelsier has to Spook in current day? We know last we saw Kelsier before the time jump he is a cognitive shadow speaking with Spook. Is it possible he got hemalurgically stapled to someone? Just throwing out a random name.... to Spook? Or am I just stabbing in the dark?

By the WOB that @Elegy posted we know that he has indeed been stapled to his current body via a Spike, and we know that it is specifically not Spook's body.  I think his clarification of "current Body" also implies pretty heavily that it is not his original body, but Ive seen that theory kicked around (his bones at least might have survived, for example). Another popular theory is that he's been stapled to a Mistwraith and is/was operating as some sort of pseudo-Kandra, which would be one way to explain why he looks like himself, scars and all.  Or that he's been stapled to some random schmuck and his spiritweb is simply projecting his self-image the way Investiture healing does (ie like Kaladin's slave brands).

[Vuvnak]

Hi ! 

damnation, first post ever ^^

I just wanna say that this theory might be true, in fact i'm a french reader of Sanderson (so sorry for my english btw). And in the french version of mistborn (fils des brumes) Spook is called..."spectre". 

And the ghostbloods are named..."Les Sang-de-spectres" 

Spectre is a word which means ghost. So in french the link jump directly to the eye of the reader.

So...Spookbloods is maybe for real.

[Krafl]

Is there temporal coerence in considering Spook as the founder or early member of Ghostbloods? I ask this, because i assume -i might be wrong tough- that as we see them in SA, Ghostbloods is a at least a centuries-established organization, involved in politcs, in searching for powerful knowledge, in World Hopping and stuff.

[Ripheus23]

Maybe the Ghostbloods initiate their presence on a world by finding people with Connection to the concepts of ghosts and blood, so show up on Threnody in one context, Scadrial in another, Roshar thusly, etc. ...