Not-So-Logicalspren Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 I just saw a post that was somewhat similar to this theory, but there were a few differences and I wanted a place to flesh my theory out a little more fully than I would have felt appropriate to do in that post (the post is “theory about the end” and it’s quite good, I would recommend reading it). Please feel free to rip this theory to shreds. I just finished my re-read of Oathbringer and it occurred to me that although Odium accepted to use a champion, he fled before either side had actually chosen a champion, as Dalinar is freaking awesome. My theory is that Dalinar is not going to appoint himself as the champion. It wouldn’t make any sense. He doesn’t have shards anymore, and the Stormfather told him that if he tried to use his Radiant powers in battle they would leave him. Dalinar even mentions several times that he is done being a soldier. So naturally, he’s going to appoint a 4th oath Kaladin to be the champion, because lets face it, Kaladin is the coolest and in a hand-to-hand fight he’s one of the best there is. Odium is going to appoint Vyre as his champion, and will probably super power him with Yelig-Nar, and possibly Dai-Gonarthis as well (I say possibly because I really have no idea what Dai-Gonarthis is, nor what it can do). All these voidish powers are going to render Vyre completely unrecognizable to Kaladin. During their final showdown, right as Kaladin will have an opportunity to end things, he’s going to recognize that Vyre is Moash, really the only true friend that he’s had since Tien, and he won’t be able to go through with it, and he’ll hesitate. This will be all that Vyre needs, because by this point Moash will be completely gone, having given himself completely to Odium. Vyre will strike a killing blow. At this point, Dalinar will be horrified, as he can’t directly intervene or it will break the oath that he made, probably freeing Odium. So instead, in a last act of desperation, he reaches into the Spiritual Realm and he restores Honor. This will of course take far more power than a human can use (as there have all ready been people saying that huge levels of stormlight are dangerous), and it will kill Dalinar. But this will leave Kaladin open to take up the Honor shard, which I find only fitting as he was the first to bond an honorspren in this generation of Knights Radiant. With this new level of investiture, he’s going to be able to see how thoroughly Odium destroyed Moash, and it’s going to make him go crazy, and he’s going to attack Odium, especially since Odium is going to be weak from all the investiture that he poured into his champion to assure victory. Honor Kaladin is going to shatter Odium, then have a nice little chat with Dalinar in the Cognitive Realm before Dalinar passes on to the Spiritual Realm. That’s going to be how part 1 ends. Part 2 will begin with Ba-Ado-Mishram (sorry about spelling) becoming a sliver of Odium, much as the Stormfather became a sliver of Honor, and then chaos will ensue. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RithmaMists99 Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 Can't wait for your collaboration with Brandon! Solid theory, definitely would be an interesting read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xardan Ta'Caran Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 Agreed, but with one exception. I don't think Kaladin will become Honor. I think Szeth will. Kaladin was the first to bond an honor spren in his generation, but Szeth is the most honorable man in the world right now. If he makes an oath, he keeps it regardless of the consequences. I'm not sure where it would go from there, but I do think that Szeth would be the "big man in charge" at the end of this story line. ;-) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RithmaMists99 Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, Xardan Ta'Caran said: Agreed, but with one exception. I don't think Kaladin will become Honor. I think Szeth will. Kaladin was the first to bond an honor spren in his generation, but Szeth is the most honorable man in the world right now. If he makes an oath, he keeps it regardless of the consequences. I'm not sure where it would go from there, but I do think that Szeth would be the "big man in charge" at the end of this story line. ;-) It would make a lot of sense due to the last book focusing on Szeth, so there is obviously something big planned for him and this might be it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Logicalspren Posted July 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 38 minutes ago, Xardan Ta'Caran said: Agreed, but with one exception. I don't think Kaladin will become Honor. I think Szeth will. Kaladin was the first to bond an honor spren in his generation, but Szeth is the most honorable man in the world right now. If he makes an oath, he keeps it regardless of the consequences. I'm not sure where it would go from there, but I do think that Szeth would be the "big man in charge" at the end of this story line. ;-) That would be awesome! I hadn’t considered that. I do love Szeth and have had similar thoughts about him being the most honorable. I would hate to see Kaladin die though as he is quite possibly my favorite literary character of all time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xardan Ta'Caran Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 29 minutes ago, Gkords said: I would hate to see Kaladin die though as he is quite possibly my favorite literary character of all time. I agree 100%, but I also know that Vin was one of my favorites and she was allowed to die, so I'm preparing myself mentally now. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ILuvHats Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 I like this theory, except Kaladin I’d rather Kaladin just die. Not because I hate him as a character, but because he’s the person everybody expects to just succeed. I’d rather the fight turn out to be unpredictable, plus we need some casualties and Kaladin would be a big one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, ILuvHats said: I like this theory, except Kaladin I’d rather Kaladin just die. Not because I hate him as a character, but because he’s the person everybody expects to just succeed. I’d rather the fight turn out to be unpredictable, plus we need some casualties and Kaladin would be a big one. I think I speak for all of them more empathic sharders when I say this. "Dude! Give Kaladin some peace!" 3 hours ago, Gkords said: I just finished my re-read of Oathbringer and it occurred to me that although Odium accepted to use a champion, he fled before either side had actually chosen a champion, as Dalinar is freaking awesome Dalinar is currently Odium's champion. At least as I understand things. Can anyone clarify this? I believe Odium will find a way to make sure that he will have to surrender that status latter and if that is the case then the rest of your theory holds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ILuvHats Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 26 minutes ago, Karger said: I think I speak for all of them more empathic sharders when I say this. "Dude! Give Kaladin some peace!" He’ll get peace when he’s dead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Logicalspren Posted July 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 40 minutes ago, ILuvHats said: I like this theory, except Kaladin I’d rather Kaladin just die. Not because I hate him as a character, but because he’s the person everybody expects to just succeed. I’d rather the fight turn out to be unpredictable, plus we need some casualties and Kaladin would be a big one. This would be a nice little turn of events, especially with Kaladin always thinking “I always survive”, and Bridge Four always expecting Kaladin to come back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Q10fanatic Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 Advanced issues found ▲ 1 hour ago, Karger said: Dalinar is currently Odium's champion. At least as I understand things. Can anyone clarify this? I believe Odium will find a way to make sure that he will have to surrender that status latter and if that is the case then the rest of your theory holds. My reading was that Odium wanted him to be and selected him, but Dalinar rejected him so that position remains vacant. Odium is bound not by legalese but by the intent of an agreement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Q10fanatic said: My reading was that Odium wanted him to be and selected him, but Dalinar rejected him so that position remains vacant. Odium is bound not by legalese but by the intent of an agreement. Then what do you make of this? He read them out loud. “You have agreed to a battle of champions. You must withdraw to prevent this contest from occurring, and so must not meet with Dalinar Kholin again. Otherwise, he can force you to fight. This means you must let your agents do your work. You need me.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Logicalspren Posted July 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Karger said: Then what do you make of this? He read them out loud. “You have agreed to a battle of champions. You must withdraw to prevent this contest from occurring, and so must not meet with Dalinar Kholin again. Otherwise, he can force you to fight. This means you must let your agents do your work. You need me.” I always read that as if Odium were to come across Dalinar again, Dalinar could demand that the challenge take place immediately before Odium had prepared a new champion and was ready for it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsecaller_17.5 Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 9 hours ago, Karger said: Dalinar is currently Odium's champion. At least as I understand things. Can anyone clarify this? I believe Odium will find a way to make sure that he will have to surrender that status latter and if that is the case then the rest of your theory holds. Yah that’s what I was thinking. Dalinar is Odium’s champion. I seriously doubt he can change that selection, which puts Odium in a sucks to suck situation. Of course if he can re-pick his champion I think this is an incredible theory (though I like the Szeth modification). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 41 minutes ago, Truthwatcher_17.5 said: Yah that’s what I was thinking. Dalinar is Odium’s champion. I seriously doubt he can change that selection, which puts Odium in a sucks to suck situation. Of course if he can re-pick his champion I think this is an incredible theory (though I like the Szeth modification). I think one of Odium's priorities is going to be resetting the terms of the agreement. Its not like he does not have several million extraordinarily skilled fighters at his disposal. Dalinar was convenient but Odium still has a reasonable chance even if Szeth or Kaladin is picked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wander89 Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 I like this theory actually. Not sure Moash/Vyre not being recognised by Kaladin would work unless some drastic changes are in place before but I do support this. However, I do agree Kaladin won't become Honor, just really echoing what's been said already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleverCremling Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 Szeth won’t make it out of book five alive. He will save Lift who he is cultivating a friendship with and die in the process. Leaving Lift some serious serious guilt and sadness to deal with for 10 years before her book in book 6. All part of Cultivation’s plan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whattheHoid Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 Really neat theory! But I don't think Kaladin will take up Honor's shard? Although he was able to part the wind and gloryspren came round him. Also the Stormfather calls him son of Tanavast? He doesn't call anyone else that which leads me to believe Kaladin is more than just a Windrunner? Perhaps he will get a chance to become like a Herald? I dunno, I am just spit balling here. And I agree Kaladin will recognize Vyre but I think with his progression of ideals he will have learned to harden himself as he can't protect everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted July 13, 2019 Report Share Posted July 13, 2019 The twist is that when Kaladin takes up Honor, he reinterprets it as Sadness... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Logicalspren Posted July 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2019 On 7/11/2019 at 9:39 PM, Wander89 said: I like this theory actually. Not sure Moash/Vyre not being recognised by Kaladin would work unless some drastic changes are in place before but I do support this. However, I do agree Kaladin won't become Honor, just really echoing what's been said already. I was thinking that by the point that Kaladin and Vyre/Moash face off, Vyre will have been possessed by Yelig-Nar long enough to have the crystals pretty much envelope him, completely changing the way he looks. Of course, we’ve never seen Yelig-Nar possess someone for longer than a couple hours at most, so I have no actual idea how drastic the changes would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDwindrunnerFB43 Posted July 13, 2019 Report Share Posted July 13, 2019 I like this theory a lot, although it differs from my own. I think Vyre at the order of Odium will continue to kill heralds and eventually kill them all. The fight will not be going well, and Jasnah will need time to figure out how to beat Odium once and for all. Shallan will help. To buy time, Dalinar, Kaladin, Szeth, Renarin, and others will become new Heralds and create a new oathpact, while Jasnah steps down as Queen to focus on research while Adolin takes up the mantle of King. Not necessarily what I think will happen, just what I think would be cool to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kon-Tiki Posted July 13, 2019 Report Share Posted July 13, 2019 Since Ash is almost certainly our Dustbringer and is not yet a Dustbringer I suspect she's got a bit of life yet ahead of her, so all of the Heralds getting killed off is unlikely to me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDwindrunnerFB43 Posted July 13, 2019 Report Share Posted July 13, 2019 True. They might augment the remaining heralds to replenish them to a full complement of 10 rather. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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