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Ripheus23

Are all the cosmere star systems contiguous?

7 posts in this topic

I know it's said to be a "dwarf galaxy cluster microsubset" kind of thing, and some of the systems are visible from others directly as such. However...

What if the Spiritual nonlocality principle means that it's possible to subsume star systems, into the cosmere, with discontiguous transit from system to system? The cosmere itself, then, is just a very special subset of all star systems in the universe [or at least the local galaxy, maybe].

The Set, arguably, would be self-aware of this enough to where they deem the fact important enough to name themselves after, on some level, maybe. Also, if the question of the Continuum Hypothesis exists in the cosmere, and among the Set, what if the Shards are defined as having "countably infinite" power and Adonalsium had "uncountably infinite" power? And unlocking the Continuum Hypothesis would play a role in gaining access to greater Shardic powers?

It's said in a WoB (I think) that people are watching the Sel situation closely. Let's suppose the landscape goes fully sentient/sapient/w/e and as a recursively living incarnation of a magic system based on the "code" of reality itself: maybe the ensouled nations would learn how to resolve the Continuum Hypothesis...

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20 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

What if the Spiritual nonlocality principle means that it's possible to subsume star systems, into the cosmere, with discontiguous transit from system to system? The cosmere itself, then, is just a very special subset of all star systems in the universe [or at least the local galaxy, maybe].

Everything except this seems at least somewhat reasonable.

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Posted (edited)

While what you say could be true, and I like the cleverness of the idea, I don't think that's the case.

First of all, Sanderson said in a recent WoB that the scope of the Cosmere is being retconned (or... just conned?) into being a star cluster. Although maybe you already knew this.

Second, again, as you mention, some of the Star systems are in fact visible from one another. Not only this, the Star Chart we did get was incomplete, and only had as much information as known at a certain point in time by a certain someone.

And Third, and to me by far the strongest, is the nature of the cognitive. The cognitive reflects the perception of things. This is why the only noticeably perceivable things in it are all the planets with life on them. It is a mapping of Space-time, but things not thought about have little to no presence in the cognitive. This makes it very hard to get to new systems for regular people. You can use Shadesmar to travel to and fro between any two regions that are being actively perceived. So far, the only times when people have gone to non-active systems are Shardic level entities. Preservation and Ruin create Scadrial, Autonomy goes to Obrodai (and potentially/probably other places), Adonalsium creates Greater Roshar, etc. It makes sense for any thing that can be seen in the Night sky from anywhere in the Cosmere to have some footprint in the Cosmere. Because even if every single star and the empty space between them isn't constantly being thought of, they are still a part of the general background perception of sentient beings. Beyond that? The footprints are probably extremely small and basic, and the cognitive may even break apart and away from the flat construct we have right now. This would make it hard for anyone to cross over much without actually taking the Physical route.

Edited by TheFoxQR
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20 minutes ago, TheFoxQR said:

First of all, Sanderson said in a recent WoB that the scope of the Cosmere is being retconned (or... just conned?) into being a star cluster. Although maybe you already knew this.

He's always said the cosmere is pretty small, for the record. That's not really new, though he was imprecise about calling it a "dwarf galaxy" before.

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6 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

 Also, if the question of the Continuum Hypothesis exists in the cosmere, and among the Set, what if the Shards are defined as having "countably infinite" power and Adonalsium had "uncountably infinite" power?

I don't think the Shards' power (quantity of Investiture) is truly infinite in the mathematical sense. Effectively so, from the human perspective (even relatively powerful Investiture-users such as Mistborn or Surgebinders). But if it were actually mathematically infinite, a finite quantity of atium wouldn't have affected the balance of power between Ruin and Preservation.

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4 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

But if it were actually mathematically infinite, a finite quantity of atium wouldn't have affected the balance of power between Ruin and Preservation.

Unless atium "secretly" encodes infinite power, and a lesser degree of infinity than some other (then we could at least finitely evaluate the steps it takes to traverse from one rank of infinity to another, so to speak), though?

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16 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

Unless atium "secretly" encodes infinite power, and a lesser degree of infinity than some other

If so, though, then human souls would also have to contain an infinite quantity of Investiture, since the amount of Ruin trapped as atium balanced out the amount of Preservation contained in humanity...

Also, there's WOB that matter, energy, and Investiture can be interconverted in the cosmere, the same way matter and energy can be in the real world. So if there's a fixed, E = mc^2 type relationship, then a particular finite mass of atium would have to correspond to a particular finite quantity of Ruin's Investiture.

And if Shards are infinite, then Harmony would be no more powerful than any single Shard, which the WOBs about Odium really not wanting that to happen implies is not the case.

It just seems far simpler on all levels to assume that Shards are not in fact infinite, at least not in the sense of quantity of Investiture (they might be infinite or at least unbounded in some other sense, e.g. capable of reaching any distance across time and space).

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