Mythmaster111

Palona's Secret

25 posts in this topic

I'm new to posting theories online, so please leave feedback below, both on the theory itself and my presentation of it. Please also tell me if this has already been proposed.

           In WoR, chapter 42, Shallan is in Sebarial's warcamp, having just woken up to a plate of food from Palona. She asks Pattern to remind her to thank Palona, then makes a throwaway comment about how she is "divine." Pattern then says: "Mmm. No. I think she is...Ah...Exagggeration?" I think that he sensed that she was not human, and was going to correct Shallan on her prescribing divinity to her when he realized it was an exaggeration. I think that this indicates that Palona is in fact not human, and is instead another species entirely. We know she isn't either breed of Aimian, and one of the only other species in the Cosmere that could blend in with Rosharans, specifically herdezians, as this is Palona's race, is a kandra. To my knowledge, there is only one confirmed kandra worldhopper, the agent of Harmony. I think that if Harmony's agent is trying to gather as much information as they can on other worlds, then one of the best places to be on Roshar is in Sebarial's warcamp. There are quite a few good reason's to be there as opposed to other places.

One, the kandra worldhoppper is able to stay near a great deal of action in Sebarial's warcamp, as Sebarial joins Dalinar on the Shattered Plains to go and fight the listeners.

Two, it is alluded to that Sebarial gossips with Palona about major policy decisions made in meetings with the rest of the highprinces.

Three, Shallan lived in Sebarial's warcamp and had a lot of contact with Palona, who, if she is a kandra, probably figured out that Shallan is a native magic user, something that Harmony would likely be interested in.

Some more supporting evidence that I have for Palona being a worldhopping kandra agent of Harmony is that she doesn't care very much about Vorin customs or chastity laws. I couldn't find the specific scene, but there is a scene where Shallan walks in on Sebarial and Palona getting massages and Palona is lying facedown with her safehand only halfway under a towel. Kandra like MeLaan have been shown to sometimes be careless with modesty in the past, which may be what is being shown here. Palona's Coppermind article says that she is good at anticipating Shallan's needs, which I believe indicates that despite her almost careless demeanor, she pays extra attention to Shallan. Palona also doesn't seem to be threatened by imminent danger as on the Shattered Plains, she is just reading a book. That passage describes her as seeming almost bored, but I believe that is too careless for a human to be at a battle. I think that the kandra worldhopper was trying to seem bored in order to disguise her interest with the battle around her. Also, the fact that she didn't seem afraid at all of the Shattered Plains seems to indicate that she didn't believe she was in any danger, which she wouldn't be if she was a kandra.

I think that this is all the evidence I can find right now, but please comment if you find anything that is pertinent to this theory.

Edited by Mythmaster111
8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose it's possible, but it could also simply be that Pattern was confused as usual about sarcasm/exaggeration from Shallan, and was going to object that Paloma was the opposite of divine (a normal mortal). The only thing unusual about her (which may be somewhat noteworthy itself, I suppose) is that she's the Herdazian non-wife consort of an Alethi Highprince,

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, robardin said:

I suppose it's possible, but it could also simply be that Pattern was confused as usual about sarcasm/exaggeration from Shallan, and was going to object that Paloma was the opposite of divine (a normal mortal). The only thing unusual about her (which may be somewhat noteworthy itself, I suppose) is that she's the Herdazian non-wife consort of an Alethi Highprince,

 

1 hour ago, Mythmaster111 said:

I think that he sensed that she was not human, and was going to correct Shallan on her prescribing divinity to her when he realized it was an exaggeration. I

I am with Rob on both points.  I will further add that we know per WoB that Vorinism does have relationships that are not matrimonial that are acceptable.  Sabarials relationship with Palona is exclusive.  I also doubt that she is amian because you know Sabarial would probably notice(she is his mistress).  Kandra can perfectly mimic people so that is a possibility. As far as I know they are impossible to spot via none magical means. 

As to your presentation the only thing I would advise is that you break up your text a bit to avoid the "wall of text" effect.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And there are better candidates for Kandra worldhopper. Mrall, Taravangian's assisstant is completely hairless and can turn off his emotions if his master commands (in dialogue eerily similar to TenSoon in WoA)

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that she's as good of a guess as anyone.  She does get a decent amount of screen time without playing a major role, which could point to her being important for a non-plot related reason (i.e. she's the secret kandra).  

 

P.s. Since you specifically asked for feedback on your presentation, I would recommend splitting your post up into paragraphs - it makes it much easier to read.  

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/10/2019 at 7:25 PM, John203 said:

And there are better candidates for Kandra worldhopper. Mrall, Taravangian's assisstant is completely hairless and can turn off his emotions if his master commands (in dialogue eerily similar to TenSoon in WoA)

This is somewhat true, however you are missing 2 things.

1. Taravangian is not the kandra worldhopper's master, Harmony is.

2. Harmony sent them to blend in to roshar, and portraying traits that make one stand out, like said ability to turn off emotions, wouldn't help that very much. Harmony would want them to act like a normal human, like Palona does.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Mythmaster111 said:

. Taravangian is not the kandra worldhopper's master, Harmony is.

We don't actually know this. The timing is actually off. The letter to which Harmony has replied in OB makes it seem as if sending Kandra off world is something that he's either just starting... Or may actually begin as a result of that letter as Era 2 takes place after the first half of stormlight. 

3 hours ago, Mythmaster111 said:

Harmony sent them to blend in to roshar, and portraying traits that make one stand out, like said ability to turn off emotions, wouldn't help that very much. Harmony would want them to act like a normal human, like Palona does

And if they aren't under Harmony, then they are on a world where their very existence is unknown, and it would be very very easy to be more lax. 

Quote

“Horrible,” Mrall said with a grin. “Just as we wanted it.”
“Do not take pleasure in suffering,” Taravangian replied. “Even when it is a work of our hands.” He took a bite of the mush. “Particularly when it is a work of our hands.”
“As you wish. I will do so no more.”
“Can you really change that easily?” Taravangian asked. “Turn off your emotions on a whim?”
“Of course,” Mrall said.
Something about that tickled at Taravangian, some thread of interest. If he had been in one of his more brilliant states, he might have seized upon it—but today, he sensed thought seeping away like water between fingers.

Personally... I think it fits. 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you Myth, I think that Mrall could be kandra, but not the kandra that HArmony controls. Also, Calderis, We do know that the kandra don't have contracts becuase Harmony utterly controls them and they only went out on contracts by the command of the Lord Ruler. They are exclusively Harmony's servants. Also, how would Taravangian not know about him being the master of a kandra. He would have had to have purchased a contract with them to have control of them like that, and he doesn't have any memory of this, and it's not spoken of in the Diagram. I don't think Mrall could possibly be a kandra that serves him, and if he doesn't then there is no reason for him to obey like that. mrall could be a kind of construction using another magic system that we haven't seen yet, such as the other end-neutral magic system that Brandon has mentioned.  And, now that I think about it, he said that we have seen it before in a published work, so there is a possibility that Mrall is a construct of that magic system.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, The 17th Scholar said:

I think that Mrall could be kandra, but not the kandra that HArmony controls.

We have nothing to my knowledge that says that the Kandra on Roshar is one working for Harmony. He does have Kandra working as scouts off world, but we don't know who or where. 

17 minutes ago, The 17th Scholar said:

Also, Calderis, We do know that the kandra don't have contracts becuase Harmony utterly controls them and they only went out on contracts by the command of the Lord Ruler. They are exclusively Harmony's servants.

No, actually, he doesn't. He prefers not to use those methods, but he will if he deems it necessary. Just like Marsh and the Hemalurgy book. He values free will. 

And they are not universally sworn to him. Spoilered for length, followed by the relevant portion. 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Fifteen

Miles talks with Suit, gets two minders, then burns gold to see two versions of himself

One curiosity of dealing only with Mistings, rather than full Mistborn, was what to do with the less powerful metals. Certainly a Pewterarm or a Tineye can be useful. We've seen them in the series do plenty of interesting things.

But what about a person who can burn only gold? I think there's just one place in the entire first trilogy where someone does it, the time Vin burns it in the first book. (I may have put a second time in; I don't recall.) Gold, as a power, was placed into the schematics to give a clue as to what the Eleventh Metal was. Beyond that, I wanted some of the powers of Allomancy to be more metaphysical, more thoughtful, and less about combat.

I'd already decided that Miles would be a Gold Compounder, capable of the Lord Ruler's healing. That meant he had to be a gold Misting. What would one do, with this power? Ignore it? Was there a way to use it? His nature as a gold Misting is a large part of why Miles is such a thoughtful, introspective person. He is not a good man, but he is a self-reflecting one.

There's more going on here, of course. Pay attention to the name he mentions: Trell. This is one of the gods from the ancient religions Sazed talked about. You might think that the spikes in Miles will let Sazed influence him directly, and they would—except that Sazed has taken a complete "free will is needed" perspective on life. He won't let himself take control of people directly unless they've "given themselves" to him, as most of the kandra have at this point. Even then, he usually only nudges.

But there is something odd going on with Miles.

The Alloy of Law Annotations (Nov. 30, 2015)
Quote

Sazed has taken a complete "free will is needed" perspective on life. He won't let himself take control of people directly unless they've "given themselves" to him, as most of the kandra have at this point. Even then, he usually only nudges.

"most." not all. And even if they were, on other worlds, they're well beyond Harmony's sphere of influence and should be beyond direct control. 

24 minutes ago, The 17th Scholar said:

Also, how would Taravangian not know about him being the master of a kandra. He would have had to have purchased a contract with them to have control of them like that, and he doesn't have any memory of this, and it's not spoken of in the Diagram. I don't think Mrall could possibly be a kandra that serves him, and if he doesn't then there is no reason for him to obey like that.

There's no reason for anything so convoluted. As you said, the contracts ended with TLR. This would be a Kandra who is free. But as we've been told, like with Paalm, many of the older Kandra spent so much time on contracts that they don't know who to be without a role. 

So Mrall would be a Kandra who created a role for themselves, and found themselves a master. That master doesn't know what they are capable of, but that doesn't change anything. It's a "contract" that they have chosen themselves. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Kandra could also be of the Set ! They have Kandra working for them as well . And those are presumably under Trell . We don’t know if Trell is Autonomy or not .

          I have considered Palona as well . I Thought she was a Herald . But I guess Kandra fits too .

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

A Kandra could also be of the Set ! They have Kandra working for them as well . And those are presumably under Trell

Despite being called a "Faceless Immortal" I very much disagree that was a Kandra. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Despite being called a "Faceless Immortal" I very much disagree that was a Kandra. 

What else could it be . The actual sentence read the Set had faceless immortals of their own . This implies that it was a Kandra . As Humans refer to Kandra as faceless immortals . Like Paalm all they would need is one Trellium spike . Harmony would not be able to see them or control them . So I ask if that was not a Kandra . Could you please elaborate on exactly what you think it was.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

What else could it be . The actual sentence read the Set had faceless immortals of their own . This implies that it was a Kandra . As Humans refer to Kandra as faceless immortals . Like Paalm all they would need is one Trellium spike . Harmony would not be able to see them or control them . So I ask if that was not a Kandra . Could you please elaborate on exactly what you think it was.

Why would a Kandra have glowing red eyes? That's a sign of possession/body theft. Not shape-shifting 

It functions more like the Fused most likely, and personally, I think it's a Svrakiss. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Why would a Kandra have glowing red eyes? That's a sign of possession/body theft. Not shape-shifting 

It functions more like the Fused most likely, and personally, I think it's a Svrakiss. 

While I agree that glowing red eyes is a sign of possession . What I was thinking was Trell spiked a mist wraith with his spike . Unlike Harmony one spike allows him remote viewing and the ability to speak thru the Kandra . When he does so thier eyes glow red . I doubt one would blow itself up unless being controlled or compelled to do so . But perhaps Kandra don’t think about self preservation . Anyways what is a Svrakiss and where can I read about them ?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Anyways what is a Svrakiss and where can I read about them ?

I don't think they were real entities, only religious myth. They are from Elantris

They were supernatural enemies of Jaddeth in the doctrine of the Derethi, as the souls of men who rejected Jaddeth.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The theory goes: 1. Autonomy helped splinter D&D on Sel, 2. Svrakiss are autonomy's servants in a manner similar to faceless immortals, 3. The legends were passed down, 4. Trell is Autonomy, 5. Svrakiss are cognitive shadows capable of possessing humans, which makes them I. Faceless, and II. Immortal. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/3/2019 at 11:51 PM, Mythmaster111 said:

2. Harmony sent them to blend in to roshar, and portraying traits that make one stand out, like said ability to turn off emotions, wouldn't help that very much. Harmony would want them to act like a normal human, like Palona does.

I thought Kandra were just stoic.  I don't think they can actually turn off their feelings.  Also what would his job there be?  To betray T at the right moment?

I recently came to believe that “Captainlord Malan sounds a little bit too like Melaan.  Although I have spent so much time reading these...

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Karger said:

I thought Kandra were just stoic.  I don't think they can actually turn off their feelings

I don't think they can actually turn off their feelings, but that's not really what happens. They've chosen to play a role, and so they act that role. 

It doesn't matter what the Kandra actually feels personally. They're method acting, and the role has changed. 

26 minutes ago, Karger said:

Also what would his job there be?  To betray T at the right moment?

Considering that I think they're there of their own choice, I'd say the job is to serve Taravangian as the man he's chosen to be. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Considering that I think they're there of their own choice, I'd say the job is to serve Taravangian as the man he's chosen to be. 

So we have another rouge kandra?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Karger said:

So we have another rouge kandra?

Depends on what you mean by rogue. 

Harmony values free will. If a Kandra chose to leave rather than swear to him, I wouldn't consider them to be a rogue, or for him to have a problem with it. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "Palona is a secret Kandra" weirdly works well with the idea that "Sebrial is actually Thaidakar." The Set could have some connection with the Ghostbloods, although Hoid isn't impressed by the Ghostbloods, whereas he actively loathes the Set. So probably not. Either way, it's a fun theory!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Sebrial is actually Thaidakar

I'll give you that Sebrial is awesome but the idea that he is secreatly the mastermind of a worldhopping criminal organization suspends belief at least for me.

10 hours ago, Calderis said:

Depends on what you mean by rogue. 

Harmony values free will. If a Kandra chose to leave rather than swear to him, I wouldn't consider them to be a rogue, or for him to have a problem with it. 

I personally don't think Harmony would approve of a kandra joining the diagram.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Karger said:

I personally don't think Harmony would approve of a kandra joining the diagram

And that's not at all what I said. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Calderis said:

And that's not at all what I said. 

point taken.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.