Steel Inquisitive

Theory about the end

17 posts in this topic

Brandon has teased that the end of the SA is hinted at in the first two books.

Quote

Questioner

So do you know quite a bit about what the end of the <Stormlight series> is going to be?

Brandon Sanderson

I do.  I do indeed.  I've actually written the epilogue of Book 5.  

Questioner

Oh yeah?

Brandon Sanderson

Just to get into my head.  I wrote it out.  Peter, my assistant, sent an explanation point after he saw that appear in the Wiki and stuff.  So yes.  And actually the ending of the entire series of the ten books is somewhere in those two books, just like with Mistborn it was in the first page.  It's not on the first page but it is in those two books.  

 

Now people have been scrambling to find this sly spoiler. I present you my attempt at being the one who discovers it!

From the letter to Hoid from Frost: (talking about Odium.)

Quote

He bears the weight of God’s own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context.

That's the problem isn't it? There's a shard of hate on the rampage that has to be stopped. A shard of hate which has no context. The obvious solution would be to merge Odium with Honor giving it context. It would dilate Odium significantly but would, in my opinion, still be too much of a Odium to Honor ratio. I have seen theories claiming Dalinar will combine all three shards. I think it would still be too much Odium in the mix. Did someone say Dalinar?

Dalinar is by far the most powerful radiant. We were all awed by his stunning feat at the end of Oathbringer. The stormfather was startled, humans/parsh were bewildered, and Odium was terrified. Many people look to this event as a sign that Dalinar will someday Ascend to Honor and defeat Odium, gaining two shards. It seems likely enough.

Mistborn spoilers (I really should have wrote this in Cosmere Discussion.)

Spoiler

Only problem is we've seen this before. I would be disappointed if SA ends the same way as mistborn. 

Obviously we need something else for narrative reasons. I propose Dalinar will Ascend to Honor (temporally) and shatter Odium. You might be asking how a glorified bondsmith could shatter anything. Glad you asked! What if Dalinar bonded Odium to ALL the other shards? It would be complete destruction of a shard, something we haven't seen before. There would no longer be sixteen shards but fifteen. Each of the others would gain a sliver of Odium's investiture. The reduced pieces of Odium would find context back with the other shards. This ending would set the stage for a much bigger story. Like cosmere ending levels. And!

Mistborn spoilers:

Spoiler

We wouldn't have a repeat ending!

What are you awesome people's thoughts?

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Bonding Odium to all the other Shards is one of the coolest ideas I've seen for that question :D

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Bonding Odium to all of the Shards may be a bit ambitious. Seems awfully like reforging Adonalsium...

HOWEVER. 

Bondsmith. Unite them. Hmmm...

Perhaps as a Bondsmith unfettered, reforging Honor and in the process binding Odium to Honor and Cultivation. 

Definitely different than Harmony, and good way to position things for Cosmere Endgame.

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Maybe he takes pieces from Odium to heal the Shard of Honor, though not (per WoB) Tanavast. But that would probably end up being like

Spoiler

Rand drawing on Moridin/the Dark One to win the Last Battle.

 

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Hmmm...

PHENOMENAL COSMERIC POWERS...

itty bitty living space.

I actually prefer your idea of binding Odium to other shards.  

If Dalinar is somehow able to reforge Honor with Odium and Cultivation in close proximity, binding Odium to Cultivation with the splinters of Honor.

 

I’m not sure what the fallout would be for all of the KR bonded to Honorspren... That might be be a fun discussion.

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11 hours ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

Brandon has teased that the end of the SA is hinted at in the first two books.

Now people have been scrambling to find this sly spoiler. I present you my attempt at being the one who discovers it!

From the letter to Hoid from Frost: (talking about Odium.)

That's the problem isn't it? There's a shard of hate on the rampage that has to be stopped. A shard of hate which has no context. The obvious solution would be to merge Odium with Honor giving it context. It would dilate Odium significantly but would, in my opinion, still be too much of a Odium to Honor ratio. I have seen theories claiming Dalinar will combine all three shards. I think it would still be too much Odium in the mix. Did someone say Dalinar?

Dalinar is by far the most powerful radiant. We were all awed by his stunning feat at the end of Oathbringer. The stormfather was startled, humans/parsh were bewildered, and Odium was terrified. Many people look to this event as a sign that Dalinar will someday Ascend to Honor and defeat Odium, gaining two shards. It seems likely enough.

Mistborn spoilers (I really should have wrote this in Cosmere Discussion.)

  Reveal hidden contents

Only problem is we've seen this before. I would be disappointed if SA ends the same way as mistborn. 

Obviously we need something else for narrative reasons. I propose Dalinar will Ascend to Honor (temporally) and shatter Odium. You might be asking how a glorified bondsmith could shatter anything. Glad you asked! What if Dalinar bonded Odium to ALL the other shards? It would be complete destruction of a shard, something we haven't seen before. There would no longer be sixteen shards but fifteen. Each of the others would gain a sliver of Odium's investiture. The reduced pieces of Odium would find context back with the other shards. This ending would set the stage for a much bigger story. Like cosmere ending levels. And!

Mistborn spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

We wouldn't have a repeat ending!

What are you awesome people's thoughts?

I think the problem with this theory is that, first of all, it would be more than a little difficult to introduce 11 new godlike characters in one book and give sufficient exposition to explain what they are without completely ruining the pace of the storytelling. Also there are readers out there that don't know about the Cosmere. After all, even the words "shard", "Adonalsium", "Investiture" etc. have only been revealed via supplimentary material (I think). In the actual books there barely is anything even hinting at the Cosmere's existence. I think your theory makes sense in-universe, but I think a significant part of the readers, especially the more casual ones, would think of this as Deus Ex Machina. Besides, I am pretty sure that WOB says the crossovers between the series would be more subtle and not directly impact the main plots. 

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11 hours ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

What are you awesome people's thoughts?

Was that just directed at me or has awesomeness been downgraded?

In all seriousness this is an extremely cool theory.  Much better then "lets just add all the shards we can think of together," that crops up to often on the forms.  I particularly like the teamwork aspect(something that Dalinar has struggled with).  Just one problem. Why didn't Honor do this himself if it was possible?

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7 hours ago, bxcnch said:

I think the problem with this theory is that, first of all, it would be more than a little difficult to introduce 11 new godlike characters in one book and give sufficient exposition to explain what they are without completely ruining the pace of the storytelling. Also there are readers out there that don't know about the Cosmere. After all, even the words "shard", "Adonalsium", "Investiture" etc. have only been revealed via supplimentary material (I think). In the actual books there barely is anything even hinting at the Cosmere's existence. I think your theory makes sense in-universe, but I think a significant part of the readers, especially the more casual ones, would think of this as Deus Ex Machina. Besides, I am pretty sure that WOB says the crossovers between the series would be more subtle and not directly impact the main plots. 

You wouldn't need to explain to much. All you have to say is Dalinar shattered Odium, maybe have a little scene afterwards with Cultivation saying she got some of the power but the rest went somewhere else, all mysterious like:-)

7 hours ago, Karger said:

Was that just directed at me or has awesomeness been downgraded?

In all seriousness this is an extremely cool theory.  Much better then "lets just add all the shards we can think of together," that crops up to often on the forms.  I particularly like the teamwork aspect(something that Dalinar has struggled with).  Just one problem. Why didn't Honor do this himself if it was possible?

The way I imagine this working is an entire shards worth it power bring funneled through a single surge. Honor had lots of power but was too... free? Dalinar could gather all the power but still be limited to a couple of surges.

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5 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

The way I imagine this working is an entire shards worth it power bring funneled through a single surge. Honor had lots of power but was too... free? Dalinar could gather all the power but still be limited to a couple of surges.

You are saying one of the shards is more limited then a shard powered bondsmith?

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Maybe Dalinar isn’t suppose to shatter Odium, but to unite him permanently or something. Not fuse him with other shards.

Isn’t Odium referred to as “The Broken One” sometime? I think that as a Bondsmith, Dalinar will fix him in some way so he isn’t a pure force of hate. Yeah, it’s a bit far fetched, I know.

 

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8 hours ago, bxcnch said:

I think the problem with this theory is that, first of all, it would be more than a little difficult to introduce 11 new godlike characters in one book and give sufficient exposition to explain what they are without completely ruining the pace of the storytelling. Also there are readers out there that don't know about the Cosmere. After all, even the words "shard", "Adonalsium", "Investiture" etc. have only been revealed via supplimentary material (I think). In the actual books there barely is anything even hinting at the Cosmere's existence. I think your theory makes sense in-universe, but I think a significant part of the readers, especially the more casual ones, would think of this as Deus Ex Machina. Besides, I am pretty sure that WOB says the crossovers between the series would be more subtle and not directly impact the main plots. 

While I don't disagree with your opinion, Adonalsium has been mentioned by both Sazed and Hoid, though Sazed's is kinda a typo. Investiture was referenced in Bands of Mourning in that lesson the Kandra gave and I believe Lyft's spren mentioned it as well though I could be wrong on that one. The Cosmere itself has been mentioned in various books, people tend to say that where they might say universe if they were in our world. I am insanely curious to find a person who sees all these terms in the books and is interested enough to read all of them but not look some of this stuff up on the internet. 

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19 minutes ago, Karger said:

You are saying one of the shards is more limited then a shard powered bondsmith?

Yes and no. A shard is like an ocean. Is it big? Yes. Is there a lot of power there? Yes!

Bondsmiths are like rivers. Focused. Lots of power.

Dalinar would be more like a ocean that's flowing through a river bed. LOTS of power flowing through a limited space.

2 minutes ago, TheGirlWhoLookedUp said:

Maybe Dalinar isn’t suppose to shatter Odium, but to unite him permanently or something. Not fuse him with other shards.

Isn’t Odium referred to as “The Broken One” sometime? I think that as a Bondsmith, Dalinar will fix him in some way so he isn’t a pure force of hate. Yeah, it’s a bit far fetched, I know.

 

I do believe The Broken One is Honor as he is shattered.

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44 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

I do believe The Broken One is Honor as he is shattered.

The broken one refers to Odium.  Three of the 16 ruled but now the broken one reigns.  How can a dead guy reign?

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11 hours ago, bxcnch said:

"Adonalsium", "Investiture" etc. have only been revealed via supplimentary material

Adonalsium is mentioned in OB when Ash is cursing while trying to find Taln. Investiture is mentioned a couple of times, such as when

Spoiler

Vasher is teaching Vivenna about Breath in Warbreaker.

 

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I like the idea a lot, but, as other people have said, I doubt Dalinar has the power to merge Odium with all other Shards. He would be more powerful than Honor-fueled Ishar at that point, which wouldn’t make sense. 

He could defenitely mix up Odium with some Shards, but not all of them. 

Or, he could just, you know... (general Cosmere spoiler):

Spoiler

...stuff him in the Cognitive Realm. The best Shard disposal method in the Cosmere, tried, tested and certified by Rayse himself.  

 

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It’s a cool theory, though it does worry me. We should remember that while Odium claims he is passion (something that would improve a lot of shards), in truth he is in hatred. Not exactly something I want added to god like beings.

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Posted (edited)

Why not have a different end?

The Stormfather, being Honor's Cognitive Shadow, holds most of the Shard of Honor right now. Why not leave it like that? It could be a new kind of Shard, where the power will primarily be held in the system, and periodically, whoever is bonded to the Stormfather can access it. It's like the God being literally in the Church, readily available to the Pope who is also a Paladin. Except Popes change.

Odium could similarly end up with 9 vessels - the 9 unmade taking on the bulk of his power and keeping it in the System and away from coalescing onto one vessel.

Edited by TheFoxQR
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