Feuruchemical Brass

[Elsecaller_17.5]

Is there an upper limit to how much warmth can be stored at a time? Could a firesoul just chill (pun intended) in a bonfire for a couple hours and gather virtually unlimited warmth?

[RithmaMists99]

Perhaps, though I'm not sure about the mechanics of this, I'm guessing that the bonfire might not affect them due to them storing the warmth and hence never really actually feeling warm during the process

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Truthwatcher_17.5 said:

Is there an upper limit to how much warmth can be stored at a time? Could a firesoul just chill (pun intended) in a bonfire for a couple hours and gather virtually unlimited warmth?

No

Thoughtful Spurts

If tapping heat means your own body gets hotter, does it also mean you become immune to hot temperatures so long as you're tapping it, or should you fill heat and grow colder for that to happen?

Brandon Sanderson

As everything in Feruchemy, you become immune to the effects of the ability only. Like weight doesn't crush you, but at the same time doesn't have a net gain in strength. Growing colder, however, would be more helpful in this regard.

The fire would still burn you.

[cometaryorbit]

I think that WOB means that tapping heat won't protect you from fire. Filling a brassmind should still work.

[Steel Inquisitive]

14 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I think that WOB means that tapping heat won't protect you from fire. Filling a brassmind should still work.

I think it means if you're filling a brassmind you won't feel like you're burning, but you'll still have skin melting off.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Steel Inquisitive

[MacThorstenson]

13 hours ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

I think it means if you're filling a brassmind you won't fill like you're burning, but you'll still have skin melting off.

I’m not sure about that, because tapping/filling legitimately changes your body temperature and if your body isn’t hot it won’t melt. 

A better description I think would be that if you were being burned alive, you could survive the heat but would still be killed by suffocating from lack of O2

[Ethan_sedai]

I want to see someone trying that. It would probably look like this:

[Karger]

8 hours ago, MacThorstenson said:

A better description I think would be that if you were being burned alive, you could survive the heat but would still be killed by suffocating from lack of O2

 

21 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I think that WOB means that tapping heat won't protect you from fire. Filling a brassmind should still work.

 

21 hours ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

I think it means if you're filling a brassmind you won't feel like you're burning, but you'll still have skin melting off.

You can only lower your body heat so much.  Cold blooded animals still die in fire.

[MacThorstenson]

8 hours ago, Karger said:

 

 

You can only lower your body heat so much.  Cold blooded animals still die in fire.

I don’t see how that’s relevant. 

The idea behind filling a brass mind while around heat is that your internal temperature is falling, and instead of dying from hypothermia, the heat around you warms your body to normal temperatures. 

The trick is to balance the rate of heat being stored with the rate of heat being added to your body. If you are adding 1 joule per second to the metalmind, and are in a situation where via conduction/ratiation etc, you are gaining 1 joule per second, the amount of energy in your body, and thus your heat, would stay the same.

While we don’t know how fast you could fill a metal mind, and thus how cold you could make your body, if there was no lower limit you could lower your body temperature such that if you stood in a fire it would conduct heat into your body at the same rate you were storing it into your energy. 

The difference between this situation and a cold blooded animal is that a cold blooded animal is still absorbing all of the heat from the fire, you would be storing all the heat away in a heat sink, making it so your body would still be at livable temperatures. 

[Karger]

3 hours ago, MacThorstenson said:

The idea behind filling a brass mind while around heat is that your internal temperature is falling, and instead of dying from hypothermia, the heat around you warms your body to normal temperatures. 

You don't die of hypothermia anyway the same way you don't die when taping an ironmind.

3 hours ago, MacThorstenson said:

The trick is to balance the rate of heat being stored with the rate of heat being added to your body. If you are adding 1 joule per second to the metalmind, and are in a situation where via conduction/ratiation etc, you are gaining 1 joule per second, the amount of energy in your body, and thus your heat, would stay the same.

In that case boiling water would work better.

[MacThorstenson]

24 minutes ago, Karger said:

You don't die of hypothermia anyway the same way you don't die when taping an ironmind.

3 hours ago, MacThorstenson said:

Im not sure about that. We know there are protections around tapping metal minds, but I’m not sure it’s been confirmed that there are the same protections around storing. If it has, then that settles it.

It seems logical, but I seem to remember Wayne when he was storing health saying that he couldn’t store too much or he would die. And if there aren’t protections on storing for gold (the place where it seems most logical to have protections) then I don’t see why there would be protections for the other metals, unless gold is just an exception.

I also think that it would depend on how brass stores heat. If it changes the temp of your whole body, including your core, then it raises a few more issues.

And to your second point, I wasn’t thinking about this as a method of storing heat, more as a hypothetical situation where one where someone was tossed into a fire. So there probably are many more efficient ways to do that. 

[Karger]

6 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

It seems logical, but I seem to remember Wayne when he was storing health saying that he couldn’t store too much or he would die. And if there aren’t protections on storing for gold (the place where it seems most logical to have protections) then I don’t see why there would be protections for the other metals, unless gold is just an exception.

When does he say this?

[MacThorstenson]

I can’t remember. It was when he was explaining a little bit about how storing up heath is tough. I could be wrong on the specifics however. 

[cometaryorbit]

On 7/6/2019 at 1:14 PM, MacThorstenson said:

 

A better description I think would be that if you were being burned alive, you could survive the heat but would still be killed by suffocating from lack of O2

I think this is correct. As long as you are storing as much heat as the fire is adding, you won't burn; but it won't protect you from smoke inhalation and anything else that isn't directly heat-related. It would probably keep the sunlight at the end of Hero of Ages from setting you on fire, but any exposed skin would still sunburn, since that's a UV light effect rather than caused by heat.

[Pathfinder]

There is a limit on how much can be stored at a time (75% in some cases for instance)

 

Thoughtful Spurts

If there's really no upper limit to Feruchemy for practical reasons* , why didn't Sazed just fill steel at ridiculous levels for a few minutes in [Well of Ascension], and then go back to running instead of leaving his steelminds there? Say, being some 100,000 times slower than he would normally be for about a minute. Meaning that a Feruchemist should be able to fill a given metalmind in very short periods of time if you fill at a high enough rate.

*(yes, you have the limit of how much you can store in a given metalmind and for how many metalminds you can carry on your person, but those are probably too high to really be taken into account in more "normal" circumstances)

Brandon Sanderson

The low end is bounded. You can pull out tons--but in filling, you can only go so far. I didn't ever explicitly talk about this in the series, but the implications are there. Not all have the same bounds, but in your example, the body just can't slow beyond a certain point. Think of it this way--you can only fill a weight metalmind with as much weight as you have to give. So you can become very, very light--but you only add to a time for doubling your weight. You can't make yourself 100,000 times slower and gain 100,000 times multiplication. You can give up all of your normal speed, and so when you tap that speed out you are at 200% for an equal period. (And that's a theoretical maximum; realistically, you can only go to down around 75% slower or the like.)

[DocHoliday]

On 7/7/2019 at 7:43 PM, cometaryorbit said:

I think this is correct. As long as you are storing as much heat as the fire is adding, you won't burn; but it won't protect you from smoke inhalation and anything else that isn't directly heat-related. It would probably keep the sunlight at the end of Hero of Ages from setting you on fire, but any exposed skin would still sunburn, since that's a UV light effect rather than caused by heat.

Let's not forget that fire and heat are 2 different things either. Fire produces heat, yes, but its a chemical reaction and not an atribute that can be stored. I'm not sure even a fire ferring would be immune to the effects of standing in a fire. They'd be able to store plenty of heat but they'd also be burning just the same.

[cometaryorbit]

11 hours ago, DocHoliday said:

Let's not forget that fire and heat are 2 different things either. Fire produces heat, yes, but its a chemical reaction and not an atribute that can be stored. I'm not sure even a fire ferring would be immune to the effects of standing in a fire. They'd be able to store plenty of heat but they'd also be burning just the same.

Sure, they couldn't store the fire itself, but if the Feruchemist was storing up all the excess heat, there wouldn't be any burning since the temperature wouldn't rise.

(A live human body isn't really very flammable anyway, it's too water-rich.)

Even hair, which is dead cells and comparatively dry, would probably count as part of the Feruchemist's body Cognitively and so wouldn't burn, since it wouldn't heat up enough to ignite.

The reduced oxygen & smoke inhalation could still be harmful though.

[Ethan_sedai]

Here is a better question: does the heat of the fire spread through the body of the feruchemist fast enough for this to work? My very vague knowledge of how meat cooks says no, the heat would be much higher at skin level, and much lower towards the internal organs. 

[Karger]

9 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Sure, they couldn't store the fire itself, but if the Feruchemist was storing up all the excess heat, there wouldn't be any burning since the temperature wouldn't rise.

(A live human body isn't really very flammable anyway, it's too water-rich.)

Even hair, which is dead cells and comparatively dry, would probably count as part of the Feruchemist's body Cognitively and so wouldn't burn, since it wouldn't heat up enough to ignite.

The reduced oxygen & smoke inhalation could still be harmful though.

I recently learned that colder flammable stuff may actually burn more readily then their hotter counterparts provided they have enough activation energy.