Truthwatcher_17.5

Belonging to multiple orders

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Assuming you could successfully keep all the oaths could you belong to multiple orders of the Knights Radiant? My thought is yes though some oaths (windrunner and skybreaker) would be mutually exclusive while others (windrunner and edgedancer) work very nicely together.

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Think of the Stormlight efficiency you'd get off of that.

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What about if they could bond spren from 2 different Shards like Honor and Cultivation. Imagine a Bondsmith with the power of both the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher. Epic levels being shattered right there!

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It's definitely possible, but there has to be a reason why Brandon strains the "theoretically" in aboves WOB. I guess it's because it's highly unlikely for a spren to approach someone already bonded.

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Also given the ideological differences between spren types, it is unlikely that you will find two spren types that will have complimentary personality types.

 

You most likely would hamper your progression through the oaths severely by bonding multiple spren.  Sure, Honorspren and Cryptics do not have contradictory oaths, but they are opposed in mindset.  The bond would not happen.  

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I think Edgedancer and Windrunner oaths could work together, but it would still make things more complicated, and spren don't like to share. Syl gets possessive of Kaladin even where lesser spren are involved.

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3 hours ago, CrazyRioter said:

I think Edgedancer and Windrunner oaths could work together, but it would still make things more complicated, and spren don't like to share. Syl gets possessive of Kaladin even where lesser spren are involved.

Agreed, though your comment does remind me of how Shardplate is potentially formed using lesser spren. Could that also be a bond, though to a lesser extent?

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1 minute ago, RithmaMists99 said:

Agreed, though your comment does remind me of how Shardplate is potentially formed using lesser spren. Could that also be a bond, though to a lesser extent?

The short answer is Yes there is almost certainly a Connection effect at play, but I tend to think of it as the Plate is formed from the Radiant spren's Squire-spren, in much the same way the Radiant's Nahel bond gets extended to their Squires

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14 minutes ago, Quantus said:

The short answer is Yes there is almost certainly a Connection effect at play, but I tend to think of it as the Plate is formed from the Radiant spren's Squire-spren, in much the same way the Radiant's Nahel bond gets extended to their Squires

The best part about this theory is the imagery of Syl standing in front of a bunch of windspren, making them do Katas, or whatever windspren need to do to train!

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We probably shouldn't discuss that theory here, it'll just derail the thread. Shardplate theories are a common line of speculation here, there's other threads.

Anyway my point was that spren probably wouldn't want to bond somebody that was already bonded. And if they did they'd fight a lot, lol.

 

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3 hours ago, CrazyRioter said:

We probably shouldn't discuss that theory here, it'll just derail the thread. Shardplate theories are a common line of speculation here, there's other threads.

Anyway my point was that spren probably wouldn't want to bond somebody that was already bonded. And if they did they'd fight a lot, lol.

 

Fair enough, I only mentioned it because I dont think it's an example of the Radiant themselves having multiple Spren bonds in the way this thread is discussing, rather that it's an example similar to squires where the one of the two beings involved in the primary Nahel Bond having a secondary/surrogate bond.  

 

Back on track:  With little to no evidence whatsoever, I think the most likely combination of Orders that might find the right circumstances to bond multiple spren of different Orders would be the Bondsmiths and whatever order is most closely associated with their individual Godspren.  This is mostly because the two godspren we know have more differences than similarities.  But I think the Godspren would have to either REALLY like the pre-existing radiant for some reason, or have a particular attachment to the Spren, otherwise it would seem so very impolite to horn in on this sort of Soul-blending relationship

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A Stormfather honorspren combo wouldn’t be too bad. Father-child dynamic, with doubled adhesion surge. 

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I think a more interesting question at this point would be what are the potential Consequences of a single person being Bonded to Multiple Spren.  The Nahel Bond has been described several times as a literal blending of Spiritwebs, it has implications on both Parties.  So what happens if there are three being blended?  Would the Spren start to change, becoming more like each other?  Would new Resonances being to appear?  If it were specifically a Bondsmith Godspren and a more normal-tier spren, would the lesser ranked spren get a Power boost? Would the Godspren object to the other spren forming a Blade? Do they get two sets of Plate, or one Super-mech Voltron set? 

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5 hours ago, Quantus said:

I think a more interesting question at this point would be what are the potential Consequences of a single person being Bonded to Multiple Spren.  The Nahel Bond has been described several times as a literal blending of Spiritwebs, it has implications on both Parties.  So what happens if there are three being blended?  Would the Spren start to change, becoming more like each other?  Would new Resonances being to appear?  If it were specifically a Bondsmith Godspren and a more normal-tier spren, would the lesser ranked spren get a Power boost? Would the Godspren object to the other spren forming a Blade? Do they get two sets of Plate, or one Super-mech Voltron set? 

Regarding resonances I do not think there will be new ones, and they may lose the old ones as per Brandon the more powers you have, the less likely you have a resonance. It seems two powers are the base line. Maybe three (though I do not think so)? Four might be pushing it. 

I think we need to understand Bondsmith's boosting abilities more before we can say. Apparently it manifests differently for each order. 

I think there would be the same issue as two spren from any other. They may not want to share, as well as the difficulty in maintaining oaths. 

As to the plate, I think that will largely depend on what plate is actually made of. Some theories I think would say nothing would change (condensed stormlight theory), others might say have to choose one or the other or potentially have problems, or as you say merge the two (lesser spren theory)

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On 2019-07-03 at 3:42 PM, CrazyRioter said:

I think Edgedancer and Windrunner oaths could work together, but it would still make things more complicated, and spren don't like to share. Syl gets possessive of Kaladin even where lesser spren are involved.

Syl is not a great example though. She is generally possessive and kind-of self centered. Someone like Pattern would probably be far more chill with sharing a human with another spren. 

Generally though, I agree. Most spren wouldn’t like it. 

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33 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Regarding resonances I do not think there will be new ones, and they may lose the old ones as per Brandon the more powers you have, the less likely you have a resonance. It seems two powers are the base line. Maybe three (though I do not think so)? Four might be pushing it. 

Ooh, good point.  So if we assume that 4 of 10 surges is too much (not unreasonable), Im curious what would happen if the two orders shared a surge.  Might they get a resonance between the three? Might there be something akin to a Resonance effect from having two different versions of the same Surge, in the example of a Windrunner/Bondsmith that both get Adhesion but apparently will sometimes use it in different ways.  I could see Spiritual Adhesion giving the WindSmith more conscious control over their Squire Connections, for example.  

 

33 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I think there would be the same issue as two spren from any other. They may not want to share, as well as the difficulty in maintaining oaths. 

Next to Bondsmiths with their unique spren, I think the next most likely to e open to it is (by a wide margin) the Lightweavers.  Speaking Personal Truths makes the incompatibility with another Order's Oaths almost a non-issue, and if Pattern is any indication they are very willing to try new things purely for the value of the Experiment.  

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1 hour ago, Quantus said:

I could see Spiritual Adhesion giving the WindSmith more conscious control over their Squire Connections, for example.  

I am not yet convinced that Windrunners can't use some form of spiritual adhesion.

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I think their resonance is a form of spiritual gravitation and adhesion. They pull in a lot of squires and Kaladin certainly cemented B4 as a cohesive unit

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13 minutes ago, Kon-Tiki said:

I think their resonance is a form of spiritual gravitation and adhesion. They pull in a lot of squires and Kaladin certainly cemented B4 as a cohesive unit

I am not sure that spiritual adhesion is a bondsmith resonance.

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That's why I said the resonance is a form of spiritual adhesion/gravitation, not necessarily the sum total of its possible applications

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12 hours ago, Kon-Tiki said:

I think their resonance is a form of spiritual gravitation and adhesion. They pull in a lot of squires and Kaladin certainly cemented B4 as a cohesive unit

I agree with this entirely.  While I could easily see Windrunners doing Spiritual Adhesion too, I think I prefer the literary possibilities of having the Orders each having different expressions and subtle differences in how they leverage each surge.  Having the BondSmiths uniquely being able to Forge those Spiritual Connections, and in general having some surges express themselves along different Realmic Lines adds a lot of fun variation.  

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16 hours ago, Quantus said:

Ooh, good point.  So if we assume that 4 of 10 surges is too much (not unreasonable), Im curious what would happen if the two orders shared a surge.  Might they get a resonance between the three? Might there be something akin to a Resonance effect from having two different versions of the same Surge, in the example of a Windrunner/Bondsmith that both get Adhesion but apparently will sometimes use it in different ways.  I could see Spiritual Adhesion giving the WindSmith more conscious control over their Squire Connections, for example.  

There's a recent WoB that clarifies that you still have resonances when you have lots of powers, they're just attenuated too much to be useful.  If I had to guess, I would say that the boundary between usable and useless resonances lies between three and four powers.  So, for three powers, you'd have three different, very-attenuated resonances (one for each pair, maybe a fourth for all three combined).  

 

Quote

OrangeJedi

Do Mistborn have resonances?

Brandon Sanderson

*Hesitantly* Everybody does, but they're not as pronounced.

OrangeJedi

Is that because they just have so many powers?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)
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17 hours ago, Quantus said:

Ooh, good point.  So if we assume that 4 of 10 surges is too much (not unreasonable), Im curious what would happen if the two orders shared a surge.  Might they get a resonance between the three? Might there be something akin to a Resonance effect from having two different versions of the same Surge, in the example of a Windrunner/Bondsmith that both get Adhesion but apparently will sometimes use it in different ways.  I could see Spiritual Adhesion giving the WindSmith more conscious control over their Squire Connections, for example.  

I could see that happening. Though at this point I have no idea what kind of resonances could be produced from that. I believe it was confirmed that Shallan's Mnemonic ability is the lightweaver resonance, and Jasnah's sense of direction if the Elsecaller resonance (please correct me if I am wrong. I know there was a bunch of backing and forthing over that, so I could be recalling incorrectly). Also apparently

 

Mistborn Spoilers

Spoiler

I do not believe Wax and Wayne's resonances have been revealed yet

 

So assuming I recalled everything correctly, then I have no clue how to reason what resonance would pop up for what combination of powers lol

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1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

I could see that happening. Though at this point I have no idea what kind of resonances could be produced from that. I believe it was confirmed that Shallan's Mnemonic ability is the lightweaver resonance, and Jasnah's sense of direction if the Elsecaller resonance (please correct me if I am wrong. I know there was a bunch of backing and forthing over that, so I could be recalling incorrectly). Also apparently

 

Mistborn Spoilers

  Hide contents

I do not believe Wax and Wayne's resonances have been revealed yet

 

So assuming I recalled everything correctly, then I have no clue how to reason what resonance would pop up for what combination of powers lol

Jasnah's resonance has not been confirmed (I don't even remember a discussion about it).  

Wayne's resonance has not been revealed either (his acting is confirmed to not be magical).  Wax's resonance is 

Spoiler

his steel bubble.  

 

In my opinion, none of the resonances are match up particularly well with the input powers, so it makes it impossible to guess.  If you squint, sometimes you can make a connection (e.g. Kaladin "attracting" people and "binding" them to him -> lots of squires), but only in hindsight.  No clue how light + transformation yields cool memory powers.  

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