Wheel of Time - TV Show

[Philomath Ghostblood]

1 hour ago, Jofwu said:

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Mat's family being dirt poor was a fantastic change. In the books Mat is selfish and immature for the first half of EotW... then the ruby dagger screws with him until book 3, right? EVERYBODY hates mat after the first two books. I've met very few people that find anything charming about him at that point. And then it turns out he's a really cool guy! It turns out he has a really deep heart and always does the right thing. And this changed allowed them to show it from the START, so that viewers actually have something to care about. Mat going back out in the battle to save his sisters was such a perfect Mat thing to do. And I think the critique of him being a gambling addict and a womanizer are missing the point of what he was doing. Obviously he enjoys gambling and he enjoys women, but the things we saw in the opening here were ENTIRELY about getting lanterns for his sisters. He's dirt poor and tried to make some money to buy lanterns through gambling. When that failed, he started flirting with the girl and stole her bracelet... So that he could sell it to Fain to get lanterns. Great character setup that's 100% inline with the books. I prefer it to the temporarily immature, trickster Mat who doesn't get interesting until he grows up just a bit.

Perrin killing his wife was a FANTASTIC decision. (lots of "fridging" complaints to be made, and I DO wish that they took Brandon's advice and just had him kill Luhhan instead... but something like this was a brilliant move.) The issue is that Perrin's ENTIRE character arc ties ALL the way back to where he kills the Whitecloak in Eye of the World. It's this single instrumental moment in his life that sets him on the path of fearing his capacity for violence. Of fearing his Wolfbrother nature. Of fearing the axe. But here's the thing... It only WORKS in the book because you're reading a book and can see directly inside his head. Imagine Show Perrin killing a Whitecloak halfway through season 1. Honestly... I can't imagine many people sympathizing with him at all. Those guys are monsters. A bit of guilt over killing a human? Sure. A guilt so large that it's the foundation of his entire character arc? No way. People wouldn't understand it at all, in a show format. Having Perrin kill someone he cares about from his hometown? BRILLIANT solution to this problem.

I already shared some of my thoughts about Perrin above, but you said it so much better than me. I love everything you said about him. And I actually love everything you said about Mat too. I really like how he’s been portrayed so far. Like I said above, I’ve only read the series once and it was a while ago, but I honestly forgot that Mat’s family wasn’t that way in the book. For me, the way it was made in the show just really fit his character. 
 

To your point about expectations and adaptations. There are some things for me where that is easier than others. Most of the Harry Potter movies were a huge disappointment for me. It was hard to separate them. But I love every and all adaptations of Beauty and the Beast. Disney cartoon, Disney musical, Disney live action, non-Disney folktale versions, I love them all. Also, one of the best adaptations Book to movie is Holes. That movie was spot on to the story. Anyway, I think your points about steps for good adaptations are true. Needs to be a good story, keep the spirit of it, then be as faithful as possible. I think the reason people are disappointed in this is they may feel like it isn’t actually meeting the first two steps for them. Which is okay. 

[En-priestess Misting]

3 hours ago, Jofwu said:

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I DO wish that they took Brandon's advice and just had him kill Luhhan instead... but something like this was a brilliant move.

 

Spoiler

Okay, Brandon giving advice not to kill off a wife is kind of funny *Evie, Lessie, Shashara all glare* 

Really agree with your comments @Jofwu. I’m really enjoying the show! Not only do the changes make a lot of sense for a TV show adaptation, but having new possibilities in the show actually gives me the chance to be surprised by the Wheel of Time all over again, which I find exciting! 

Edited November 21, 2021 by En-priestess

[Dreamwa1ker Son of Honor]

8 hours ago, Jofwu said:

I've read the books a few times and I'm LOVING it.

Others have mentioned how Brandon said you should view the show as "another turning of the wheel". My personal mindset is... how can anybody not see EVERY adaptation through that lens? What are people expecting? I mean even if you think that a show COULD and SHOULD be adapted as closely to the books as possible (both of those points being debatable in my opinion)... How could you possibly believe, practically speaking, that it won't be changed? It's foolish to open up any adaptation, in my opinion, prior to checking your expectations.

For example, I'll pick on some of @Hoiditthroughthegrapevine's WTF points. (this is vague book spoilers and show episode 1 spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

Mat's family being dirt poor was a fantastic change. In the books Mat is selfish and immature for the first half of EotW... then the ruby dagger screws with him until book 3, right? EVERYBODY hates mat after the first two books. I've met very few people that find anything charming about him at that point. And then it turns out he's a really cool guy! It turns out he has a really deep heart and always does the right thing. And this changed allowed them to show it from the START, so that viewers actually have something to care about. Mat going back out in the battle to save his sisters was such a perfect Mat thing to do. And I think the critique of him being a gambling addict and a womanizer are missing the point of what he was doing. Obviously he enjoys gambling and he enjoys women, but the things we saw in the opening here were ENTIRELY about getting lanterns for his sisters. He's dirt poor and tried to make some money to buy lanterns through gambling. When that failed, he started flirting with the girl and stole her bracelet... So that he could sell it to Fain to get lanterns. Great character setup that's 100% inline with the books. I prefer it to the temporarily immature, trickster Mat who doesn't get interesting until he grows up just a bit.

Perrin killing his wife was a FANTASTIC decision. (lots of "fridging" complaints to be made, and I DO wish that they took Brandon's advice and just had him kill Luhhan instead... but something like this was a brilliant move.) The issue is that Perrin's ENTIRE character arc ties ALL the way back to where he kills the Whitecloak in Eye of the World. It's this single instrumental moment in his life that sets him on the path of fearing his capacity for violence. Of fearing his Wolfbrother nature. Of fearing the axe. But here's the thing... It only WORKS in the book because you're reading a book and can see directly inside his head. Imagine Show Perrin killing a Whitecloak halfway through season 1. Honestly... I can't imagine many people sympathizing with him at all. Those guys are monsters. A bit of guilt over killing a human? Sure. A guilt so large that it's the foundation of his entire character arc? No way. People wouldn't understand it at all, in a show format. Having Perrin kill someone he cares about from his hometown? BRILLIANT solution to this problem.

Most of the complaints I see are just baffling to me. I've seen long arguments over things like... the design of Tam's sword not being book-perfect, and I just don't get it. I'm a HUUUUUGE fan of these books, but things like this just don't bother me. It comes across as hyperfixation to me, I guess.

I feel like the show is doing nearly as good a job as I ever could have expected.

I certainly have gripes that I'm happy to talk about (as I do with the books themselves). But those gripes are a reason to give it 4/5 stars... not 2/5 stars.

@Jofwu thank you for saying this, it really reflects my feelings as well and I was feeling a bit alone. Show is not perfect but I really am enjoying it and am not upset over most changes. It feels like LotR to me where there are changes but the overall tone and characters are there.

On the Dragonmount forums where I've been a member since before the book series finished, I was getting pretty frustrated at several threads turning into "let's trash the show" with a bunch of comments making it seem like folks think anyone who actually *liked* the first few episodes must not have really been a true book fan or understood the series, lots of saying they don't believe the showrunner (an avowed fan) read the series at all. Also complaints about the show being too "feminist" or performing best with women in their 20s as if that proved it wasn't popular with book readers. So as someone who has read the series several times but likes the show so far I was feeling a bit marginalized as if people have an idea of who is allowed to be a fan (and it's not me). 

Anyone can be a fan, and our various opinions and interpretations are what make forums fun! 

Anyway, thanks Sharders for keeping the discourse much more friendly! <3

 

[SwordNimiForPresident Soulcaster]

12 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

.please tell me this is sarcasm. Because if it's not, boy do I have some news for you: Diehard fans - particularly when it comes to nerd/geek culture stuff - have a tendency to have the racist undertones boil over when casting choices are made.

I guess I don’t pay much attention to fan chatter most of the time. I was hyped for this series so I was paying attention this time.

As to your point about it not being 1 to 1 copy. It feels to me like someone just took the plot outline off Wikipedia and made a show out of it. It’s a little disappointing but like I said, I’ll just wait 20 year for someone else to acquire the right and actually make TWOT.

On a side note, while trolling through the steaming pile of garbage that is the comments about the series I stumbled across the fact that Disney+ is making a Willow series. Seems like I’ll have all the fantasy TV I can ask for next year.

[dannnnnex Bondsmith]

I am thoroughly enjoying the show so far. Watched 2 so far, and I think they've done a good job with adapting it. 

Biggest Complaints (ranked from most annoyed by to least):

Spoiler

1. Egwene is a candidate for being The Dragon????  Huh?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the dragon like, mechanically have to be male. I've only read up to book 4 in the series, but like, isn't the whole point that the dragon goes mad and breaks the world? That's like, what the dragon does. You can't go mad if you aren't touching the tainted male half of the One Power. Just doesn't make sense. 

2. They cut out the black rider appearing behind rand in the very first scene! That's legitimately like, the scene I think of when I think wheel of time. (it is the very first scene after all). It wouldn't have even taken that much screen time! 

3. Rand's whole journey back to town at night just got completely ignored. Tam's fever dream is kinda super important to the plot. Not sure why they thought that was a good idea to cut out. 

4. Randomly adding in that women's circle thing with egwene is kinda weird. Like, it feels like they had to remove other, better, scenes (see above) to make room for that fairly pointless one. 

4. They cut out baerlon. I can see why, it isnt that important, but I did still always like the baerlon scenes. The rat nightmare scene in baerlon is one of my absolute favorites. 

5. No mention of Draghkar yet

 Things I liked (not ranked)

Spoiler

Perrin killing his wife is SO DARK! I LOVE IT! It makes him so disturbed! Great character work. Jofwu aready said everything I have to say about it. I love what Jofwu said about mat too. 

Casting is great. Wardrobe is great. Set pieces are great. Acting is great. All the general productiony stuff is great, except for maybe the cgi. some channeling looked a little jank. 

I like the way they adapted shadar logoth. They condensed it all really well, without really losing anything. Kinda sad to lose mordeth, but did we really need him?

I was worried that they wouldn't ever name Bela, but they did, so I'm happy. 

THE WHITECLOAKS ARE SO BRUTAL AGH I LOVE IT. I absolutely love to hate me some whitecloaks. 

@Frustration you wanted to see my complaints

[Wit Beyond Measure Arbiter]

Love, love, love, love, love!!! I am actually blown away by how much I love the series and surprised by how much most dislike.  That said, though, for those expecting television to closely follow the books and keep all the favorite moments, I can understand why they'd be disappointed.  Good adaptations are never very close to the books unless, like Pride and Prejudice, say, the book is 250 pages long. 

I'm not happy with the politically correct female edition to the Dragon Reborn candidacy because it creates all kinds of logic issues that have already been mentioned.

Spoiler through Episode 4, which has been out for a few hours because they release at midnight GMT!!!  (That's 6 PM CST and even earlier for those out west.) We discovered this by accident at the end of Episode 3 when it just let us go to 4.

Spoiler

There are now 5, not 4, Dragon Reborn candidates!  They aren't explicit on who the 5th candidate is, but I believe the most likely is Nynaeve but it could also be Logaine.

While I'm in spoiler mode, I do think they've shown some redeeming features for Mat in his love and care for his sisters and for the little girl who reminded him of his sisters. 

We will get the good side of Mat, but it may take a while.  My eldest called him the prick, but I defended him. 

(That's another thing I absolutely adore!  I've been begging my eldest, the only other reader in the family, to read Sanderson for aaaaages, and she wouldn't.  So I'm finally getting to share something that will hopefully make it into Sanderson territory with them all: husband, eldest, and youngest.  They all absolutely love it, too!  We watched all four practically back-to-back tonight.  I insisted on bathroom breaks and the youngest complained!)

I absolutely adore the landscapes, sweeping vistas, idyllic countryside, storybook villages, cinematography, gorgeous lighting, and scenes that occasionally bleed into each other.  I loved many of the costumes, as well.  The full clothing color thing is really helpful to newcomers, though it did make me wonder how someone in all one shade could so easily pretend not to be Aes Sedai.

I believe that both story and characters are extremely well developed and similar enough to the original storyline and characters to please me well.  All four of us are very eager for Episode 5.  I hope the eldest, who is visiting from college (and why I'm just now watching the first three), won't make us wait for Christmas break to watch Episodes 5 and 6 with her.  My eldest is shipping Nynaeve and Lan hard, and she's sussed out that Rand is the Dragon.  And she's calling Perrin wolf-boy.  They are laying the groundwork well.

ETA: I forgot about the intro!  We all loved the intro, too, with the colors of the ajahs being woven together in a tapestry.  Not only was it gorgeous, but the loom itself reinforces the central theme that "the wheel weaves as the wheel wills." The intro starts with the threads of time being pulled apart and moves on to some individual threads and then reaches the massive loom where the threads of time and the threads of people and their life trajectories intersect and weave together to form the tapestry of this new age.

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Wit Beyond Measure

[Dreamwa1ker Son of Honor]

Episode 4 was the best so far for me! It had scenes that were different from the books but felt very true to the books and did a lot of heavy lifting in lore and world-building that is true to the books in a condensed amount of time. And Nynaeve (my favorite character from the books) continues to be awesome. I love her actress.

[Briar King Elantrian]

Have watched all 4. I’ve just been considering this show is taking place in

one of the countless portal/mirror worlds the books mention

since way early into ep 1 and it works that way.

[IllNsickly Misting]

After watching episode 4, I am absolutely certain that RJ was right.

 

NO ONE should have ever touched this in an attempt to adapt it…

 

Fecal Monstrosity nearly as good as ‘Legend of the Seeker’… NEARLY.

Edited November 27, 2021 by IllNsickly

[IllNsickly Misting]

If I committed a crime so heinous that Capital Punishment wasn’t punishment enough and I had to choose between watching the 1st 4 episodes of Wheel of Time or watching Legend of the Seeker on repeat for 168 hours..

I am choosing Legend of the Seeker…

This adaptation is THAT STORMING BAD.

 

 

Edit: I am not even going to apologize for the double post.

Edited November 27, 2021 by IllNsickly

[Jofwu Most Ancient]

Episode 4 was the best one yet, and the biggest divergence from the books. Just guess to show that book "faithfulness" isn't always best. The books do several things better, that a TV show simply can't do. But its easily doing some things better. I think there's room for improvement, but for the most part this show just keeps getting better.

[Use the Falchion Twinborn]

I agree with Episode 4 being the best so far. I think the show is finding it's footing now, and that means that the kinks should start to be worked out here. 

The Nynaeve/Lan stuff is good, and I'm super stoked for their love story going forward. 

 

On 11/21/2021 at 6:53 PM, ookla the quantificational said:

1. Egwene is a candidate for being The Dragon????  Huh?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the dragon like, mechanically have to be male. I've only read up to book 4 in the series, but like, isn't the whole point that the dragon goes mad and breaks the world? That's like, what the dragon does. You can't go mad if you aren't touching the tainted male half of the One Power. Just doesn't make sense. 

Not sure if it's been addressed for you yet, but the show changed this - Moiraine mentions that the Dragon Reborn (of the show) could be a man or a woman in her opening monologue. This is a major change, and one that doesn't feel necessary for book readers, but it keeps the suspense and adds an additional weight to the ladies of Two Rivers for non-book readers. Also, I think later books touch on some of your theories about what the Dragon does, but that's not entirely accurate IIRC. (Again, later books will address this.)

 

On 11/21/2021 at 6:53 PM, ookla the quantificational said:

3. Rand's whole journey back to town at night just got completely ignored. Tam's fever dream is kinda super important to the plot. Not sure why they thought that was a good idea to cut out. 

I think they cut that out because 

Spoiler

It'd give away too much about who the Dragon Reborn is. Remember that the focus of this adaption of the show - if not at least the first season - is that Moiraine is trying to figure out who the Dragon Reborn is. If Rand gets too much attention, then it becomes too obvious. 

I wasn't happy when I saw this was cut out either, but it makes sense with what the show is going for.

 

[Mage Artifabrian]

Alright, I have finally caught up to episode four, so I will post my thoughts and then will probably post again once season one is ended.

I freaking love the show. Episode one wasn't great so I was a little worried, but the episodes just kept getting better. I think the casting is great and everything is well written and acted. The Lan and Nynaeve romance is awesome, and a bit more obvious than in the book. I like it.

Most of what I have to say is about the changes from the book. I really should have anticipated them because every adaptation has changes, but since I didn't really think about it some caught me off guard. Some of the changes I really liked, and some I didn't as much. The good outweighs the bad though.

Spoiler

Changes I liked

Perrin's wife, and her death. Like everyone else has been saying, this plot point does for the show what Perrin's internal monologues do for the books. I love the monologues, but that doesn't work in a TV show.

Egwene being ta'veran. I didn't think about ta'veran that much on my first readthrough of the series, but now that I am going back through I feel like there should have been a few more than three ta'veran. Yes, the three boys can be the most powerful and have the colors swirl in their heads and stuff, but there are others in the series that are quite influential and have a knack for leadership (Egwene). The pattern needs her in the place that she is, so it would make sense that it would spit her out as a ta'veran to ensure that she ends up where she needs to be.

Mat's family stuff. While I will miss the Tam/Abel old guy bad-a duo that we got in Shadow Rising, I think it is more important to show Mat's internal conflicts externally. You can tell that Mat loves his sisters, and is trying to do what he can to help them in this bad situation, and he seems like a good brother, but the gambling addiction gets in the way of that. It's good, and it kind of sets up the whole dagger thing and then we can contrast post-dagger Mat and everything will be good. I'm not articulating very well, but suffice it to say that I liked the change.

The Logain plotline. It is just straight up awesome, and I think adds some excitement to the middle of the first book when everyone is just traveling around. Especially if they cut out the whitecloak plotline (which it isn't clear if they will yet.) I feel like they are setting up Logain's character for the start as a bad guy and become a good guy role that he fulfills. I also like his flavor of madness. I don't think that was made clear in the books what that was.

Changes I'm neutral to (but probably need to be this way for the pacing and stuff to work)

Mostly just the changes to plot, like the run in with the white cloaks, and the Aes Sedai camp. I think they can do whatever they need to to fit the content in 8 episodes as long as they end up at the Eye with a confrontation with Ba'alzamon and stuff.

The fact that Thom wasn't in the two rivers. I was worried that they weren't going to have him in the show at all and that would have ticked me off.

The whole 'Mat is probably a channeler, watch out that happened to my nephew Owyn." plotline. We haven't had time to see it play out. Maybe it will be good, maybe it won't.

Changes I disliked (but didn't hate, and accept that some of them were necessary to make the show work)

The fact that the Dragon could be either gender. Others have commented on this, and I don't think it works. Mechanically it doesn't work and will probably end up confusing people. I know people say that this change helps give the two rivers women bigger roles, but there are different ways that they could do it. I dunno. I have also heard people say that they might change who the dragon ends up being, and that would really make me mad. The part that everyone plays in the books works for their characters so well, and if they mixed it up it would just not click.

Where the flip is Elyas??? and Min???? (watch as both of these characters are introduced and all of my ranting is for nothing)

Okay. These are my thoughts. Overall I really like the show, and like the fact that on aggregate it is different.

[Jofwu Most Ancient]

19 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

I think they cut that out because

Rafe implied we will get it as a flashback in his Reddit AMA.

It was among a few questions where people said "why did you cut X?" and his cheeky response was a simple "Did we?"

[Bort Midnight Essence]

I've not seen episode 4 yet, but from the first three, I rather liked it, even the changes... Most of them.

The one change they made which I didn't like was a total undermining of how Robert Jordan wrote both character and world.

Namely,

Thom Merrilin, a very gleeless gleeman. He's supposed to be wearing his patchwork cloak which identifies him as a gleeman, and he's supposed to bring glee to wherever he goes. He's not supposed to look like every other sod in the bar, and sing a song just as depressing as the very place around him.

 

[Use the Falchion Twinborn]

4 hours ago, Jofwu said:

Rafe implied we will get it as a flashback in his Reddit AMA.

It was among a few questions where people said "why did you cut X?" and his cheeky response was a simple "Did we?"

Ah, I like that! 

[Eluvianii Sentient Awakened Object]

Just watched episode 4 and it's my favorite so far. The mystery is good, I would probably be completely clueless about who the Dragon is.

Logain was amazing. 

Spoiler

I don't know how faithful his character is as I'm just now meeting him in the books but here he had so much presence. And I really felt for him when he was gentled, he really thought he was the one and he really thought he was the good guy.

It's also the brightest episode so far. This is more in line with the mood I associate with the books, which is great because I was worried it would stay like the first two.

And Nynaeve and Lan holy crap they're good. I may just be blind but their relationship in book 1 felt a little awkward to me. Too sudden. Here you can tell from day 1 where you want this to go and from day 2 you see it's already going there.

Lan making jokes is both unnerving and hilarious. 

[Szeth_Pancakes Compounder]

I loved the show! I felt happy with all the changes they made, except for one - the attack on the Two Rivers. It ruined the pacing of the opening section of the book. The slow burn-style opening is one of my favorite parts of EotW, and it lets us acclimate to the characters and their environment, so that we feel what the characters have to go through to be ripped away from it all. The show just didn't allocate enough time for that. What they should have done is follow each of the boys at their respective farms (after having Egwene sneak over to Rand's house so she's not left out), and have the attack happen on Winternight, not on Bel Tine. But that's about it. Otherwise, I loved it. I can't wait for Episode 5!

[Philomath Ghostblood]

Okay Episode 4 was absolutely the best so far. Basically I agree with others favorite parts of it. Looking forward to seeing what happens with Logain.  Nynaeve is the best. That is all. You could feel it all episode building to her moment at the end and it was so good. 

[Wit Beyond Measure Arbiter]

I'm loving Episode 5!  Spoilers from the new episode since it was only released an hour+ ago.

Spoiler

 

I'm such a bad book person for my non-book family to watch with!  The whole time Perrin was in the tent and getting cut and we heard wolf noises, I was like, Did you hear that?!!  Did you hear that?!!  I couldn't help it.  Hard to watch, so I was clinging to all the hope the show would give me.

And then I cried buckets and buckets at the end.  Moiraine looking at Lan, knowing the prophecy that says Moiraine is not long for this world and knowing what her death and her bond to Lan could do to Lan:  oh my goodness!  I just lost it.  So freaking hard.  But so good.

 

 

[Use the Falchion Twinborn]

Every episode sees me more and more impressed with the show. It's also adapting the best parts of later books in the series (for me) even earlier on - the kinship and bond between characters. Several moments in this were supremely sweet. Others heartbreakingly sad. All still served that purpose of kingship and bond. Again, this wasn't a perfect episode, but I don't see perfect episodes for a show often. And for a first season, WoT is doing pretty much everything right. 

[The Silverlight Scholar Grand]

Ok, I just finished episode 5 and I need to rant at someone besides my family who has not read the books..

I would like to preface my rant by saying that in general I like the show, but it is far from flawless.

Spoilered for length and episode 5 content 

Spoiler

I was watching the scene with Perrin and Egwane in the tent with Valda and the end of it I was very confused. 

If Valda is trying to kill Aes Sedai, or even Wilders who can channel, what he was doing to Egwane and Perrin makes no sense.

He thinks he has captured an Aes Sedai and her Warder. This is quickly disproven by Valda admitting that real Aes Sedai can't lie and Egwane saying that she is not Aes Sedai. What makes no sense is that Valda then proceeds to give Egwane the ultimatum of "channel, or I kill the guy." I have no idea what Valda expected to happen here. Bellow are all my ideas of what could happen in this kind of situation.

1. she can't channel and you just murdered an innocent dude to attempt to prove if she can do magic or not.

2. She can channel but doesn't. Be it self control (which Aes Sedai are known for), or you grabbed a random dude that she legit does not care about, or she needs gestures and you tied her up. You just murdered an innocent dude and let one of the Tar Valon witches go free.

3. She can channel without gestures. You sir, are now basically alone against a channeler who is upset with you, and you have threatened the life of both her and her Warder thus freeing her from any oaths keeping her from using that power to blow you up.

None of these situations give you a dead Aes Sedai, and the results are either murder of an innocent (probably not that big of a deterant), the release of witch, or his own death, none a great option. If we back up we get some better potential options for Valda.

Assuming that Valda is not knowingly and actively working with the shadow but is instead just a terrible person out for himself, this is what I would recommend he do. 

Take your supposed Aes Sedai, and kill her. Just kill her. Mabey take the time to chop off her hands and burn her corpse at the stake afterwards, but don't take the chance that she will wake up angry and channel your entire camp into oblivion. If the guy goes mad, congratulations, you probably actually did get an Aes Sedai, now kill the Warder. If the guy does not go mad, he probably was not a Warder and you can let him go. Already you either have a dead channeler and a free innocent, a dead innocent and a free innocent, or a dead Aes Sedai and a dead Warder, all with a much smaller chance of dying yourself.

Even if we say that this Valda is a dark friend who is actively and knowingly working with the shadow, what he is doing still seems very dumb.

Option number one. Current orders are to kill the current five candidates for dragonhood. At this point, you have two of them in your power. Name them dark friends and hang them. Preferably, slit their throats ASAP to avoid any chance of them getting away and put their heads on spikes or something.

Option two. Current orders are two deliver them alive to which ever Forsaken is currently pulling your strings. What happens kills one of them. Instead, you know that either one has the potential to channel and current orders may not allow you to rectify that fact permanently. Therefore, you should bind both of them, blindfold them, and keep them unconscious through some combination of drugs and thumps on the head until they are delivered to the forsaken. 

Instead of any of this. He challenges an woman that he has bumped into twice, who he admits to not be an Aes Sedai, to channel under threat of killing her friend. And when she then does manage to send a weak fireball at him, he proceeds to taunt her instead of immediately killing/rendering her unable to channel. Then, with a confirmed channeler in the room, he then proceeds to be surprised when her big strong male companion is suddenly free of the ropes binding him and growls menacingly at Valda. This entire sequence is just really making me question how Valda managed to collect that many Aes Sedai rings. Cause if he was smart enough to kill that many actual Aes Sedai, be it through arrows in the back from a hundred yards or poison in the wine, if he was making this many mistakes with any actual Aes Sedai, I have no idea how he survived this long.

Any way... thanks for reading my rant, I hope I sound somewhat intelligible. If you have any ideas about what twisted strain of logic Valda used to justify his actions I would love to hear it. I just have a hard time accepting that he thought either, "The wretched witch of Tar Valor will admit to her sins but be unable to do anything and I can then kill her" or "This random girl that I bumped into for the second time must be able to channel, but I feel the need to prove it, and I am OK with potentially murdering her friend to try to make her channel so that I can execute with a clear conscience" or "I just captured a channeler and I feel the need to taunt her and possibly gloat badly enough to risk getting myself blown up/letting her get away to do it."

Edit: Just thought of a in world reason for Valda to be smart enough to kill other Aes Sedai but dumb enough for that scene to actually work. At least one and possibly two ta'veren in the room.

Also, I realize that what they did was decent character development for the protagonists, but it made Valda look like a total idiot. Then again, if the forces of the shadow (or almost any villan for that matter) were actually competent, the protagonists would die as soon as they are identified. 

I mean... tell me that if the two forsaken who we saw at the eye of the world were instead sent to the two rivers instead of the trollocs and quietly stalked the three ta'veren and hit them with Balefire near simultaneously from hiding there was anything Moraine could have done to stop it and we would still have a story.

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by The Silverlight Scholar
Had more ideas and avoiding a double post.

[Jofwu Most Ancient]

1 hour ago, The Silverlight Scholar said:

Spoilered for length and episode 5 content 

Spoiler

I think you're missing the fundamental idea of who the Whitecloaks are: especially Questioners. You're looking for a certain type of logic where there is none.

He recognized Perrin and Egwene and them being in new company and, being a Whitecloak, immediately got suspicious. (it's possible he learned more about what happened in the Two Rivers and had extra reason to be suspicious)

And then they ran.

As far as Valda is concerned, if you run away from Whitecloaks then you must be a Darkfriend. I don't think he needed any more proof than that to be comfortable killing either.

I'd also say that we don't know he was being honest about letting Perrin go. It seems entirely plausible to me that if Egwene hasn't shown herself he would have killed her anyways, just to be sure. And more importantly, if she confessed (without fighting back) he absolutely could have killed her and then turned around and killed Perrin too.

 

[The Silverlight Scholar Grand]

1 hour ago, Jofwu said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I think you're missing the fundamental idea of who the Whitecloaks are: especially Questioners. You're looking for a certain type of logic where there is none.

He recognized Perrin and Egwene and them being in new company and, being a Whitecloak, immediately got suspicious. (it's possible he learned more about what happened in the Two Rivers and had extra reason to be suspicious)

And then they ran.

As far as Valda is concerned, if you run away from Whitecloaks then you must be a Darkfriend. I don't think he needed any more proof than that to be comfortable killing either.

I'd also say that we don't know he was being honest about letting Perrin go. It seems entirely plausible to me that if Egwene hasn't shown herself he would have killed her anyways, just to be sure. And more importantly, if she confessed (without fighting back) he absolutely could have killed her and then turned around and killed Perrin too.

 

In response to what you said

Spoiler

Yeah, I admit now that I was the fool for expecting white cloaks and high rankings questioners in specific to behave in a logical manner. 

Also, they did try to escape after they were found heading to Tar Valon. Considering its the white cloaks we are talking about, that is actually quite a bit more proof of some kind of mischief than they probably feel like they need to call someone a dark friend.

 

[Wit Beyond Measure Arbiter]

Spoiler

In addition to what Jofwu said above, the self-righteous are rarely as concerned with their own righteousness as they are with finding and rooting out the unrighteousness of others, as both the Book Whitecloaks and this scene show perfectly.

This Questioner has slaughtered a dozen Aes Sedai successfully, so it only makes sense that he wouldn't be fearful of a not-yet novice.  In truth, it was not Egwene but Perrin he should've feared.

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Wit Beyond Measure
All my stuff disappeared! I'm thinking nested spoiler tags aren't a good idea.