The order of ancient history?

[Renen]

Can anyone explain the order of various ancient historical events? I'm trying to get properly placed what happened early on thousands of years ago (from as early in the planet's history as possible) 

Edited June 20, 2019 by Renen

[+Invocation]

1. Adonalsium creates Roshar. Gotta start with that, when the spren, highstorms, and singers originated. 

2. Humans showed up from Ashyn.

3. Humans begin to spread out of Shinovar and the Desolation cycle begins.

4. Many, many, Desolations, with at some point the Last Legion getting sent to the Shattered Plains.

5. The Last Desolation.

6. The False Desolation, with Ba-Ado-Mishram Connecting to the parsh and giving them forms again and making them fight.

7. The Recreance.

8. The Vorin Heirocracy.

9. The events of the books.

10. The end of the books.

At some point in there was the Scouring of Aimia but we don't know precisely when yet.

I probably missed something in there and am ready to be proven wrong.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Invocation

[Renen]

What's the scouring again? 

And I have a question about 2. Where did the humans show up from and why? 

 

P. S. Amazing summary. 10/10!

Edited June 20, 2019 by Renen

[+Invocation]

1 minute ago, Renen said:

What's the scouring again? 

The Scouring of Aimia is when someone/something (probably Dai-Gonarthis, the other Unmade) just absolutely destroyed 99% of Aimia; everything except Akinah. That's why there's not as many large greatshells anymore and the larkin are super-rare. The destroyed Aimia is where the Sleepless protect and where the Kaza interlude (with the ship and the smoke Soulcasting lady) was trying to go.

3 minutes ago, Renen said:

And I have a question about 2. Where did the humans show up from and why? 

They showed up from Ashyn bringing Odium with them because they messed Ashyn up pretty bad. It's technically still inhabitable but not on the surface, and very much not the same way (we may eventually get a story set there that might be called Silence Divine, with sickness-based Investiture). Honor/Cultivation also ordered them to let the humans settle.

[Renen]

But they supposedly messed it up by surge binding too much right? Did they lose the surge binding upon coming to Roshar? 

[Inky]

11 hours ago, Renen said:

But they supposedly messed it up by surge binding too much right? Did they lose the surge binding upon coming to Roshar? 

No. Surgebinding didn't exist on Ashyn, because it was a different planet. Different planet = different magic system. They used a similar enough system that the Singers could say they used Surges

[Scion of the Mists]

Check out this post by @Deathwielded or the history section of Roshar's Coppermind page.  

On 4/4/2019 at 1:47 PM, Deathwielded said:

1. Singers lived peacefully on Roshar with spren and Highstorms. Fabrial's could have existed and be in use.

2. Humans lived on Ashyn and based on what we know of the Silence Divine they had a virus/bacteria based Investiture that granted powers. (it wasn't always planned to be that type of magic)

3.  Honor and Cultivation are on Roshar.

4. Odium was traveling the Cosmere Splintering shards starting with Ambition whome he wounded and chased after then took out Devotion and Dominion. (he could have ended up on Ashyn and pushed them along to destroy the planet, but we dont know if a shard was there or not and I dont see Odium needing to destroy a planet that doesnt have a shard there already)

5. the humans from Ashyn destroyed the planet using what we are calling the Dawnshards or a form of Surgebinding. (could just be using known words to refer to a lost magic system)

6. the Humans were transferred from the destroyed planet to Roshar using a not fully explained process that Brandon is still working on the mechanics of.  

7. the gods (Honor and Cultivation) told the Singers to allow the humans to live in Roshar and the Singers granted them the land now know as Shinovar.

8. we know many of the Heralds were alive on Ashyn and they were still alive when the first desolation started. 

9. Odium Invested some of the Singers to become the fused making the war un-winnable for the Humans/Voidbringers as they could essentially possess new bodies and continue fighting. Plus Thunderclasts would be difficult to defeat pre-shardblades

10. Honor Created the Honorblades (and thus the Stormlight Surges we know today that are used by the Heralds and proto-knights Radiant. Referring to the 10 pairings of powers and insuffion of Stormlight directly) and the Heralds and the Oathpact is forged. (unsure if the Honorblades were made for the first desolation or after they broke pact the first time. I think before)

11. The fused are bound to Braize by the Heralds and Odium is also bound partially by the Oathpact but largely from Honor directly. (I think Odium being invested in the fused being a part of the reason)  

12. The Oathpact doesn't hold forever as Heralds give in to the torture and the loophole in the Oathpact allows the heralds to leave thus freeing the Fused to to the same. However once the Fused are killed again the Heralds can take up the Oathpact again and the cycle of Desolations continue. the line defining sides and who is now called the voidbringers are blurred 

13. during the Desolations the Fused learn how to use voidbinding to combat the Herald's use of Surges and the first non-herald humans starting bonding True Spren who mimicked the Honorblade's use of Surges to help in the fight.

14. the Knights Radiant were formally organized by Ishar and the Heralds became the begrudging patrons for the 10 orders. 

15. the Knight Radiant would discover the truth that the humans were the invaders and the Singers were the Original inhabitants and fear their powers could destroy Roshar just like their Ancestors destroyed Ashyn, but Honor would console them and encourage them thus keeping them in line.

16. Honer getting weaker and starts dying. This is likely due to Odium attacking Honor or the Oathpact being broken so much. Probably both.

17. the "Final" Desolation occurs were the 9 Heralds who miraculously survived this time decide leave Taln to suffer alone for 4000+ years since he was the only one of them to never break once.

18. the False desolation happens were Odium and Taln were still sealed on Braize, but Ba-Ado-Mishram started providing voidlight and forms of power to the Singers before being sealed by a strike team of Radiants. 

19. the Day of Recreance happens once the Knights Radiant once again discover the truth of their alien origins, but Honor is raving mad instead of helping them understand or reassuring them. 

20. Honor creates the Visions and charges the Stormfather to grant them to someone worthy and then fully dies. 

[Renen]

And what's the deal with the last legion? What did they do for the past... forever? The Alethi seem to only learn of them recently. 

[Unhinged]

On 6/19/2019 at 11:55 PM, Invocation said:

They showed up from Ashyn bringing Odium with them because they messed Ashyn up pretty bad. It's technically still inhabitable but not on the surface, and very much not the same way (we may eventually get a story set there that might be called Silence Divine, with sickness-based Investiture). Honor/Cultivation also ordered them to let the humans settle.

I'm not sure but there was a WOB (i can't find it right now) that said that the first wave of humans came to Roshar before Honor and Cultivation so possibly pre shattering cross bred with the parsh people and the Horneaters and the Herdazians  are their descendants 

[+Invocation]

3 hours ago, Renen said:

And what's the deal with the last legion? What did they do for the past... forever? The Alethi seem to only learn of them recently. 

They were there to be commanded by Odium's forces and as a reserve to test new forms before they abandoned the forms for dullform while composing their history songs.

1 hour ago, Unhinged said:

I'm not sure but there was a WOB (i can't find it right now) that said that the first wave of humans came to Roshar before Honor and Cultivation so possibly pre shattering cross bred with the parsh people and the Horneaters and the Herdazians  are their descendants 

This one?

Quote

Lirins hand

On Roshar, do the humans predate the two Shards coming there, or did they come with the Shards?

Brandon Sanderson

The humans were...not created by Honor, Cultivation or Odium.

Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016)

If so, this just means it isn't a Scadrial situation, where the Shards created the humans. Adonalsium did create the entire Rosharan system and everything in it very specifically, so yes, there were humans in the system before the Shattering, and technically the humanoid strains were there before the Ascension of the relevant Shards, but I doubt it happened on the planet of Roshar. Odds are there was some form of Oathgate-ish transport between Ashyn and Roshar and humans/singers/Aimians (maybe Aimians) could cross back and forth, with all the requisite relationships that would come from that.

However, the footnote and last section of the below WOB seems to contradict some of those exact things, so I'm suitably confused.

Quote

HorseCannon

I didn't realize horneaters had parshmen blood, didn't even realize that was possible. How closely are humans and parshmen related, do they have a common ancestor? Or is one an artificially created version of the other?

Brandon Sanderson

There was intermixing long ago. Horneaters and Herdazians are both a result. (Signs of this are the stone carapace on Herdazian fingernails and the Horneater extra jaw pieces--in the back of the mouth--for breaking shells.)

Humans and parshmen don't have a common ancestor. And as a side note, both of these strains of humanoids predate the ascension of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium.

ccstat

Are there Aimian-Human hybrids as well? (Either type of Aimian) If so, are the Thaylen people one of these?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Blightsong

*via private message*

Some of us believe that you are saying that humans and listeners existed pre-Shattering while some of us believe that you are saying that Horneaters and Herdazians existed pre-Shattering (you have mentioned that humans had been on Roshar since before the Shattering recently). What were you trying to say here?

Brandon Sanderson

Humans (other than those on Yolen) existed pre-Shattering, as did parshmen.

Footnote: Blightsong's parenthetical statement is mistaken; there is no source claiming that humans had been on Roshar since before the Shattering.
General Reddit 2015 (Nov. 16, 2015)

 

[bxcnch]

Do we also have information on when Sadees and Nohadon ruled? I think it was heavily implied if not explicitly stated that Radiants were still around during Nohadon's reign, which almost certainly was after, or maybe during the Final Desolation. I don't think we know anything about Sadees though. 

[Solant]

5 hours ago, bxcnch said:

Do we also have information on when Sadees and Nohadon ruled? I think it was heavily implied if not explicitly stated that Radiants were still around during Nohadon's reign, which almost certainly was after, or maybe during the Final Desolation. I don't think we know anything about Sadees though. 

It's been awhile, but I thought it implied that Nohadon's book was the basis for the KR. I was always under the impression that he was alive during an earlier Desolation, not a later one.

[Karger]

On 7/6/2019 at 6:20 AM, bxcnch said:

Do we also have information on when Sadees and Nohadon ruled? I think it was heavily implied if not explicitly stated that Radiants were still around during Nohadon's reign, which almost certainly was after, or maybe during the Final Desolation. I don't think we know anything about Sadees though. 

I believe that Sadees's rule began immediately after the rule of the Heirocracy(as in he was the one who overthrew them in the war of loss).  Nohadon ruled during the Heraldic epochs prior to the founding the the knights radiant(we think) although surgebinding was already a thing.

[Stark]

On 6/19/2019 at 11:46 PM, Invocation said:

6. The False Desolation, with Ba-Ado-Mishram Connecting to the parsh and giving them forms again and making them fight.

7. The Recreance.

8. The Vorin Heirocracy.

I'm heavily invested on figuring out where in this block of time the Shin Invasion happened.  A major theory of mine hinges on it occurring after the Recreance.