aneonfoxtribute Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 He's easily one of the strongest, but could he be the single strongest? I know he took up the power of the Well of Ascension, but that was only temporary, and I don't think he modified his body or powers at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegy Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 The wording of the question is very vague. Like, when is a Shard full? Wouldn't Endowment also be "non-full" because of the Splinters? But I take it you just mean beings that aren't Shards and still want to include Splinters like the Stormfather? It also depends on your definition "strongest", as in, "most Invested", "most powerful", "would win in a fight", a combination of them all? As for an answer to what you're probably asking, I could be wrong, but I feel like Susebron might be more powerful. He'd still lose a fight against the Lord Ruler for obvious reasons. Nightblood is probably highest in the ranking though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 A tenth hightening Vasher might be able to take him with some prep work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnatel Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 Nightblood is definitely the most dangerous thing, not sure if the strongest. That's the problem with what 'the strongest' really means. Because you can have less power but be better at using it. Are you stronger? Well... Are we talking about Vasher with or without Nightblood? Because, well, he is awesome, but tenth heightening Vasher with Nightblood is quite a terrifying idea, isn't it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 We have WoB that say the honorblades were originally fueled by honor directly, and that the heralds had access to levels of investiture no radiant could attain so I think the heralds as they were originally might have been up there with the Lord Ruler, or depending on how powerful their surges could have been, more so than the lord ruler. Imagine soulcasting or using division on an entire city. That is how I picture it at least. But no concrete information yet (other than how the honorblades used to work, and the investiture the heralds had access to), so the rest is conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 I think probably yes. Nightblood is more Invested, but isn't capable of a ton on his own. Hoid has access to lots of different magic systems and tons of knowledge. However, very little compares to a Fullborn (a fan term for a combined Mistborn/Feruchemist). He has access to Compounding for all the Feruchemical abilities. That's got to be more power than even an Honor-fueled Herald. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said: I think probably yes. Nightblood is more Invested, but isn't capable of a ton on his own. Hoid has access to lots of different magic systems and tons of knowledge. However, very little compares to a Fullborn (a fan term for a combined Mistborn/Feruchemist). He has access to Compounding for all the Feruchemical abilities. That's got to be more power than even an Honor-fueled Herald. But in my opinion, what the lord ruler is capable of is by that point he acts as if he is fueled directly by preservation. I know I said that kind of weird but maybe this will help. We see Vin get fueled directly by preservation level Kredik Shaw. We know she is able to due this because she was being fueled by preservation directly. She was leaking mist while doing this. We see the same situation occur when Wax has access to the bands. Leaking mist and everything. So my line of reasoning is the same would happen with the heralds with a direct line to honor. Gravitation, transformation, division, abrasion, illumination, cohesion, tension, progression, adhesion, and transportation at massive scales with no limit coupled with stormlight healing unrestrained. So I think they would be about equal, but this debate went on for awhile on another page. So to each their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Pathfinder said: Gravitation, transformation, division, abrasion, illumination, cohesion, tension, progression, adhesion, and transportation at massive scales with no limit coupled with stormlight healing unrestrained. So I think they would be about equal, but this debate went on for awhile on another page. So to each their own. I thought each Herald got two surges same as Radiants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Karger said: I thought each Herald got two surges same as Radiants. They do (assuming of course they are only holding one honorblade). I was mentioning the surges as an for example. Writing each pairing and how it would work against the lord ruler would bring us back to that other thread. So I just mentioned that I felt unrestrained use of those surges I think would be equal to the lord ruler. But to each their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) They got what their blades gave them, so yes two, but I think the point was more that each/any of the surges at those levels of power are..very powerful. Now I’m wondering what Honor fueled Division vs. Compounded Gold healing would look like. Edited June 18, 2019 by Green Hoodie Mistborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 Just now, Pathfinder said: They do (assuming of course they are only holding one honorblade). I was mentioning the surges as an for example. Writing each pairing and how it would work against the lord ruler would bring us back to that other thread. So I just mentioned that I felt unrestrained use of those surges I think would be equal to the lord ruler. But to each their own. Ahh thank you. I would give the advantage to Reshek though because of F speed. Kind of hard to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnatel Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said: Hoid has access to lots of different magic systems and tons of knowledge. At first I thought of putting Hoid here, but with him being incapable of hurting anyone, he would be rather useless in a fight. Although talking just about the amount of power, he is definitely up there. Also, I am sure I heard once Hoid could have access to the Feruchemy, but went searching through WoBs and found nothing, at least no confirmation. Only that he tried to figure it out (source: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/390/#e12754). But there is also this WoB: Quote Steeldancer Hoid. Does he have more unkeyed metalminds? Brandon Sanderson Hoid has access to lots of different things, so, yes he does. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/117/#e1571 What would also give him abilities of a Compounder (if I understand the mechanics correctly). Well, sorry for getting so hard into Hoid (it almost got me off topic) but he is amazing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wander89 Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 I'd agree that as it stands it's either TLR or Vasher, if we're talking in terms of full magical ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, Karger said: Ahh thank you. I would give the advantage to Reshek though because of F speed. Kind of hard to deal with. I can't remember, weren't you in that thread where I already put forward my reasoning? Because I already replied to that there, and I do not want to derail this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneonfoxtribute Posted June 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 8 hours ago, Elegy said: The wording of the question is very vague. Like, when is a Shard full? Wouldn't Endowment also be "non-full" because of the Splinters? But I take it you just mean beings that aren't Shards and still want to include Splinters like the Stormfather? It also depends on your definition "strongest", as in, "most Invested", "most powerful", "would win in a fight", a combination of them all? As for an answer to what you're probably asking, I could be wrong, but I feel like Susebron might be more powerful. He'd still lose a fight against the Lord Ruler for obvious reasons. Nightblood is probably highest in the ranking though. Yeah, I do mean to include Splinters, because without including them, we technically couldn't include any of the Returned, and at least two of the likeliest candidates for being stronger than the Lord Ruler are Returned. As for what "strongest" means, I was thinking "most powerful", or maybe "who would win in a 100% fight". Though I am a bit hesitant to say who would win in a fight because The Lord Ruler has a really massive fatal flaw in his Metalminds, his most important of which he wears in plain view of his arms. If they could take off his atiumminds, the fight is over right there. The fight was over when Vin did that, and that was when she was new to being a Mistborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Pathfinder said: I can't remember, weren't you in that thread where I already put forward my reasoning? Because I already replied to that there, and I do not want to derail this thread. What reasoning? We are arguing about who could be stronger the TLR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Karger said: What reasoning? We are arguing about who could be stronger the TLR? Both to tap speed for the Lord Ruler, and to use gravitation on an object requires thought activation. Assuming both parties are standing a part, looking at each other, and a time flashes down to zero. The lord ruler taps speed the same time gravitation herald increases the gravity on the ground (touching it with their feet) enough to squish the lord ruler and all his metal minds. Same scenario, but with transformation the herald can make the area for miles around the lord ruler encased in stone. Again the herald does not have to reach out to the lord ruler, nor touch him. Just transform everything. Then transport to cognitive and soulcast the metal minds to smoke. Lord ruler can no longer compound. soulcast lord ruler to smoke. This went on for awhile on that other thready awhile back which is why I didn't want to go into it. was just saying i think being fueled by honor would put them on par with the lord ruler. to each their own. Edited June 18, 2019 by Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Pathfinder said: Both to tap speed for the Lord Ruler, and to use gravitation on an object requires thought activation. Assuming both parties are standing a part, looking at each other, and a time flashes down to zero. The lord ruler taps speed the same time gravitation herald increases the gravity on the ground (touching it with their feet) enough to squish the lord ruler and all his metal minds. Same scenario, but with transformation the herald can make the area for miles around the lord ruler encased in stone. Again the herald does not have to reach out to the lord ruler, nor touch him. Just transform everything. Then transport to cognitive and soulcast the metal minds to smoke. Lord ruler can no longer compound. soulcast lord ruler to smoke. This went on for awhile on that other thready awhile back which is why I didn't want to go into it. was just saying i think being fueled by honor would put them on par with the lord ruler. to each their own. Good points but one minor nitpick. I would not put it past TLR to tap speed of thought constantly thus giving him a slight advantage. Also soulcasting him does not seem particularly practical considering how much investiture is likely in his system. I also don't think even a Herald can do miles of soulcasting at a time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneonfoxtribute Posted June 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 Just now, Karger said: Good points but one minor nitpick. I would not put it past TLR to tap speed of thought constantly thus giving him a slight advantage. Also soulcasting him does not seem particularly practical considering how much investiture is likely in his system. I also don't think even a Herald can do miles of soulcasting at a time. Tapping thought speed is a thing? I don't recall that. I thought you could only increase your physical speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Karger said: Good points but one minor nitpick. I would not put it past TLR to tap speed of thought constantly thus giving him a slight advantage. Also soulcasting him does not seem particularly practical considering how much investiture is likely in his system. I also don't think even a Herald can do miles of soulcasting at a time. Quick and then I have to run. As we have established before, what I envision is both parties starting combat a la mortal kombat. An defined area to fight in, timer ticks down, then combat begins so it wouldn't be fair for characters to have powers already in play prior to combat beginning, but as we said before, we disagree on this so it is what it is. I said the metalminds themselves would be soulcasted first, which a normal radiant can soulcast as per WoB. Once those are soulcasted away, the lord ruler has no means to continue to compound, and thus becomes a "normal" person that is easily soulcasted away especially by someone with a heralds power level. Edited June 18, 2019 by Pathfinder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, aneonfoxtribute said: Tapping thought speed is a thing? I don't recall that. I thought you could only increase your physical speed? It is possible, look at the coppermind or the back of one of the era 2 mitborn books. 3 minutes ago, Pathfinder said: Quick and then I have to run. As we have established before, what I envision is both parties starting combat a la mortal kombat. An defined area to fight in, timer ticks down, then combat begins so it wouldn't be fair for characters to have powers already in play prior to combat beginning, but as we said before, we disagree on this so it is what it is. I said the metalminds themselves would be soulcasted first, which a normal radiant can soulcast as per WoB. Once those are soulcasted away, the lord ruler has no means to continue to compound, and thus becomes a "normal" person that is easily soulcasted away especially by someone with a heralds power level. Under the scenario you have outlined I imagine things would happen as you describe them. The only thing is I can't realy imagine that scenario ever happening in the cosmere(I almost said real life). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 59 minutes ago, Karger said: It is possible, look at the coppermind or the back of one of the era 2 mitborn books. Under the scenario you have outlined I imagine things would happen as you describe them. The only thing is I can't realy imagine that scenario ever happening in the cosmere(I almost said real life). For me its the only way to accurately (as much as we can) measure abilities. Otherwise I could say a normal elsecaller would set up shop in the cognitive realm. Find the lord ruler. Wait till he is sleeping, soulcast the metal minds to smoke from the cognitive realm and then the lord ruler dies of old age. So normal radiant beats lord ruler. Does that mean the normal radiant is stronger in investiture than the lord ruler? Nope. Just means there is a sneaky way to use an ability that would unfairly favor one party. We could go back and forth making up scenarios till the end of time. It wouldn't in my mind teach us anything about the abilities. But to each their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Pathfinder said: Wait till he is sleeping I am not sure that he sleeps for more then a few seconds at a time but I see your point. Edited June 18, 2019 by Karger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 Just now, Karger said: I am not sure that he sleeps for more then a few seconds at a time. Lol, then wait till he rests in his little house as an old man. Which vin got to see. To which ull reply "well he wouldn't do that". Then I'll come up with something. Then you with something. Then back and forth not answering who is more powerful with investiture. That's why I see it as pointless to argue what the person "might" do. Take their powers as they stand and place them in a neutral situation and see what happened. That's how I view it at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 Silence Montane is obviously stronger than the Lord Ruler, even if the Lord Ruler had Nightblood and ate the Yelig-nar crystal at the same time. PROOF: Silence is the only main character in a Cosmere story, whose name is in the title. Well OK the same goes for SotD but that's not really a name. Actually, the city of Elantris is obviously alive and is biding its time before it comes the New Adonalsium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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