OneArmHerdazion Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 So I've been thinking ,If mankind was really the void bringers and took Roshar from the Parshmen (Their shell like skin also proves this ). Did not the void bringers drive mankind out of the Tranquline Halls ? and also why does the Parshmen have everything to do with the void bringers and void spren , they also refer to them as their gods? this doesn't make sense to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 36 minutes ago, OneArmHerdazion said: Did not the void bringers drive mankind out of the Tranquline Halls ? Sort of. Voidbringers is a term with far to many religious connotations to be used exactly. It can refer to the singers, voidspren, the fused or humans depending on the context. The human exodus from Ashyn is currently believed to have been caused by the use of magic that destroyed most of the habitual areas(so they drove themselves out). However the belief that voidbringers caused the exodus is likely the result of extremely poor record keeping during the desolations. 40 minutes ago, OneArmHerdazion said: and also why does the Parshmen have everything to do with the void bringers and void spren , they also refer to them as their gods? this doesn't make sense to me Odium is the void. Parshmen can bond his spren to gain forms of power or be used by the fused for bodies. The Parshmen or singers worship spren much like the horneaters do referring to them as gods. This is a cultural and biological thing(as by bonding them they gain forms of power). Humans likely began to refer to the singers as voidbringers many years ago after the term lost context and just started to mean "those evil guys." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 44 minutes ago, OneArmHerdazion said: So I've been thinking ,If mankind was really the void bringers and took Roshar from the Parshmen (Their shell like skin also proves this ). Did not the void bringers drive mankind out of the Tranquline Halls ? and also why does the Parshmen have everything to do with the void bringers and void spren , they also refer to them as their gods? this doesn't make sense to me The Tranquiline Halls refers to Ashyn, a neighboring planet where the humans emigrated from. The humans drove themselves out because they used the Surges to trash their planet (although some still live there). The Dawnsingers referred to the humans as "voidbringers" because, as @Karger pointed out, "void" refers to Odium and Odium sort of came with the humans. However, the sides were quickly realigned with the Dawnsingers on Odium's side - thus voidbringers. For more on the history of Roshar, check out the Coppermind page: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Roshar#History. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Q10fanatic Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 Don't worry too much that it doesn't make sense. Brandon loves to use the Unreliable Narrator in his works and he has emphasized over and over that historical records on Roshar are distorted or incomplete. Moreover, this information was released in a way as to cause maximum political damage to Dalinar. There are still many holes that need to be filled in this story and it is likely that some additional context will clarify how the early Desolations came about and what caused the alliances to shift. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 hours ago, OneArmHerdazion said: Did not the void bringers drive mankind out of the Tranquline Halls ? and also why does the Parshmen have everything to do with the void bringers and void spren As mentioned, the story of the Tranquiline Halls is a distorted memory of the world that most Rosharan humans originated from, which is Ashyn, one of the two other planets in the system. Brandon explicitly confirmed that the Halls were a planet and that it was Ashyn, the world that humans fled after their own misuse of magic caused a cataclysm that left it barely habitable. Odium was involved in that cataclysm in some way but we don't know the exact role he played. Also, the singers/listeners/Parsh don't have exclusive claim over voidspren. Amaram's men all get possessed by them at Thaylen City and Amaram himself (and the queen before him) bonded with Yelig-nar. We know that humans fought on Odium's side during Aharietiam and in prior Desolations, even if they never formed the core of his forces. What we currently don't know is how or why the humans and singers wound up essentially swapping gods. This WoB is relevant, if not completely illuminating. Quote Blightsong In Oathbringer it is revealed that the humans who originally came to Roshar were the first ones to be named Voidbringers and that they carried magical powers. The Stormfather also implies that modern Surgebinding didn't exist before the Heralds. Were the original powers that the humans possessed Voidbinding? Brandon Sanderson So, we're getting into lots of interesting definitional problems here. And also the ways that different entities perceive the definitions of different terms. I will answer this question specifically as we do the flashbacks from Ash and Taln's viewpoints. So you've got a long ways to wait. But understand that definitions are not always-- the way that people define things cannot always be trusted. That said, humans were not using powers from Honor originally. Skype Q&A (Oct. 8, 2018) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneArmHerdazion Posted June 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 I think this is what confused me , the fact that they swapped gods and humans served Honor and the Dawnsingers changed to Odium . Why would that happen ? And also if the humans trashed their planet due to surges then it was obviously surges granted by void spren and not normal spren as they served Odium at the time so why was the Radiance so disturbed by this if they werent bonded to void spren anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 hours ago, OneArmHerdazion said: I think this is what confused me , the fact that they swapped gods and humans served Honor and the Dawnsingers changed to Odium . Why would that happen ? And also if the humans trashed their planet due to surges then it was obviously surges granted by void spren and not normal spren as they served Odium at the time so why was the Radiance so disturbed by this if they werent bonded to void spren anymore Honor told them that they would destroy Roshar the way they destroyed their old planet Ashyn. This may or may not have been true as he was dying at the time and more then a little crazy. The Dawnsingers probably went to Odium because he offered them a way to kill humans. The humans most likely turned to Honor because he claimed that he could stop the violence or protect them. This is my interpretation anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 15 hours ago, OneArmHerdazion said: I think this is what confused me , the fact that they swapped gods and humans served Honor and the Dawnsingers changed to Odium . Why would that happen ? And also if the humans trashed their planet due to surges then it was obviously surges granted by void spren and not normal spren as they served Odium at the time so why was the Radiance so disturbed by this if they werent bonded to void spren anymore We don't know what precipitated the god switch (although it's highly likely that future books will address it). We also don't know what the magic system was like on Ashyn before the Cataclysm. Currently there are diseases that people can gain magical powers from while they are sick, but we know that it wasn't always like that. It is unlikely that the Surges that the Ashynites had were from bonding voidspren. The way Brandon describes it, Odium wasn't really the god of the humans, although the singers would have made that assumption. Although he did "kind come along with them" and he was "instrumental in what happened there" (i.e. the destruction of Ashyn), "it wasn't like they necessarily brought him." Quote Hoidonalsium What was the order of the Shards coming to Roshar and changing allegiances? Did humans come with Odium? Brandon Sanderson So... you're talking about on Roshar specifically? So, Odium had visited Roshar. The humans gave him more of an ear... The Dawnsingers would have considered him the god of the people who had come, but-- I mean, it wasn't like they necessarily brought him. He was capable of getting around before that. I mean, he did kinda come along with them, he was instrumental in what happened there. Hoidonalsium Okay, but he was separate, and after Honor and Cultivation had really settled there? Brandon Sanderson Yes, he was after Honor and Cultivation had settled. Oathbringer Glasgow signing (Dec. 2, 2017) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneArmHerdazion Posted June 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 I understand what you saying , All im saying is that what destroyed Ashyn could not be the humans or not entirely, BUT even if this were true it still weren't the same surges or magic system used on Roshar , so why were the KR even bothered by this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, OneArmHerdazion said: I understand what you saying , All im saying is that what destroyed Ashyn could not be the humans or not entirely, BUT even if this were true it still weren't the same surges or magic system used on Roshar , so why were the KR even bothered by this ? Previous generations of the Knights Radiant had discovered it before, but Honor was always there to reassure them. This time, however, he instead "promised the Radiants they would also destroy Roshar. From the Coppermind: Quote Cause “Regardless, I . . . understand now as I never did before. The ancient Radiants didn’t abandon their oaths out of pettiness. They tried to protect the world. I blame them for their weakness, their broken oaths. But I also understand.” —The Stormfather's thoughts on the Recreance[10] The Knights Radiant somehow discovered that Surgebinding had destroyed the world mankind first inhabited and humans then invaded Roshar, the Dawnsingers' land. When previous generations had learned this fact, Honor had counseled them that their cause was just. During the generation of the Recreance, Honor was deteriorating under the onslaught of Odium and did not do so. Instead, he raved about the Dawnshards, ancient weapons responsible for the destruction of the Tranquiline Halls, and promised the Radiants they would also destroy Roshar. In order to save the world, nine Orders decided to give up their powers so that Roshar wouldn't be destroyed like their first world was. [10] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneArmHerdazion Posted June 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 There has to be more to this though , I just feel theres more 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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