aneonfoxtribute

Only three Bondsmiths?

51 posts in this topic

So, there can only be three Bondsmiths, bonded to the Stomfather, the Nightwatcher, and one other related to them. Makes sense, until you consider the Honorblades. There should be an Honorblade for Bondsmith as well, so why did they say there can only ever be three in existence when there can, in fact, be four?

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28 minutes ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

Oh no why did it triple post how do I delete these

I got ya covered. :)

Sometimes internet glitches happen. Report one of the extra posts, pop in a reason, and one of us Moderators will take care of the extras.

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Just now, Kaymyth said:

I got ya covered. :)

Sometimes internet glitches happen. Report one of the extra posts, pop in a reason, and one of us Moderators will take care of the extras.

I actually reported both of them already after looking around a bit for a button to delete the topic :)

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Just now, aneonfoxtribute said:

I actually reported both of them already after looking around a bit for a button to delete the topic :)

Yep! Which was exactly right.

And to answer the actual question posed - for the most part, the Heralds aren't actually Knights Radiant themselves. Nale is kind of a weird exception to this in that he actually went to the trouble of bonding a spren and swearing the Ideals. But that is separate and distinct from the powers inherent in his Honorblade; he doesn't technically need his anymore.

The Honorblades allow the holder to wield Knight Radiant powers without swearing the Ideals. They're magic cheat code items.

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But would they not still be considered Bondsmiths, even if they weren't properly bonded to a spren? I guess it could mean only proper Bondsmiths, but I would personally still consider someone holding Ishar's Honorblade as a Bondsmith. But at that point, it's just fussing over details :P

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7 minutes ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

But would they not still be considered Bondsmiths, even if they weren't properly bonded to a spren? I guess it could mean only proper Bondsmiths, but I would personally still consider someone holding Ishar's Honorblade as a Bondsmith. But at that point, it's just fussing over details :P

They would not be, just as Szeth was never a Windrunner despite carting around the Windrunner Honorblade for a book. And I imagine the spren would have something to say about that.

The nahel bond with a Radiant spren is vital to being a Knight Radiant; you cannot belong to an Order without taking the Oaths. So no, someone picking up Ishar's Honorblade does not make them a Bondsmith.

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I see. I considered Szeth a Windrunner in WoR, even after learning that his powers came from the Honorblade rather than a spren, and I attributed that to the Heralds as well (particularly considering that they led the Orders before they left, so it would be a good assumption that they would be considered a part of their respective Orders). I suppose I was just mistaken in that assumption.

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4 minutes ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

I see. I considered Szeth a Windrunner in WoR, even after learning that his powers came from the Honorblade rather than a spren, and I attributed that to the Heralds as well (particularly considering that they led the Orders before they left, so it would be a good assumption that they would be considered a part of their respective Orders). I suppose I was just mistaken in that assumption.

We all get something wrong now and then. :)

I'm imagining the deeply insulted fit Syl and the other Honorspren would throw if Szeth had ever claimed to be a Windrunner. His bootlaces would never, ever behave for him ever, ever again.

I think the Heralds were arranged to be exempt from their Orders' Oaths because of the greater importance of adhering to the Oathpact; that wasn't a thing they could risk coming into conflict with any other bonds. Nale didn't start swearing the Skybreaker Oaths until he'd broken with the Oathpact, and I think that bonding a Highspren and swearing the oaths is his way of trying to make amends and redeem himself for that.

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Poor Szeth.

Yeah, I figured that the Oathpact was the reason, at least, why they didn't bond any spren despite the fact that they would be stronger and more cost-effective with their Stormlight and why Honor created the Honorblades for them. 

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The Stormfather made it pretty clear when discussing Jezrien that the heralds and their abilities were distinct from the orders. "He was before Windrunners.  He was Jezrien, a man who's powers bore no name.  They were simply him. The Windrunners were named only after Ishar had founded the orders."

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3 hours ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

So, there can only be three Bondsmiths, bonded to the Stomfather, the Nightwatcher, and one other related to them. Makes sense, until you consider the Honorblades. There should be an Honorblade for Bondsmith as well, so why did they say there can only ever be three in existence when there can, in fact, be four?

I'd say it was because while Ishar would hold the powers of Tension and Adhesion, he wasn't actually bonded to a spren. So he didn't count as one of the "three." Plus, he'd only be there during the most desperate of times (until Aharietiam) so people would probably not quibble about it.

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18 hours ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

So, there can only be three Bondsmiths, bonded to the Stomfather, the Nightwatcher, and one other related to them. Makes sense, until you consider the Honorblades. There should be an Honorblade for Bondsmith as well, so why did they say there can only ever be three in existence when there can, in fact, be four?

I see no reason there could not be a 4th quasi-Bondsmith. That person would not technically be a Knight Radiant, but they would be filling a very similar role, and that is probably what they would call him/her. 

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I'd be curious to know how many times there have been 3 Bondsmiths + Ishar. We know that it was possible, if rare, to have only 1 bondsmith at a time. Were 2 the norm or 3?

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1 hour ago, Q10fanatic said:

I'd be curious to know how many times there have been 3 Bondsmiths + Ishar. We know that it was possible, if rare, to have only 1 bondsmith at a time. Were 2 the norm or 3?

There has been times where there has been only 1 Bondsmith however there has never been more than 3 at any given time.

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44 minutes ago, Wander89 said:

There has been times where there has been only 1 Bondsmith however there has never been more than 3 at any given time.

I would guess that the time right before the Recreance, there was only one, since the Stormfather and Nightwatcher aren't dead (assuming they work the same as other spren), and the Stormfather seems very protective of the third one. If the third spren was dead, or almost died but lost his Bondsmith right before (like what happened with Syl), I could believe that he would be so protective that he wouldn't even tell Dalinar who it is.

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We know that there was only one, Melishi (sp?), at the time of the Recreance. I think the in-world Words of Radiance mentions that it was considered odd for there to only be one bondsmith then. I can imagine that two bondsmiths was the norm and that times with one or three were considered especially discordant or harmonious for the rest of the orders.

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I do wonder what Ishar's blade does though.  The bondsmith powers that come from there respective spren are amazingly powerful but the surges of tension and adhesion are fairly limited without all of the wired spiritual stuff.

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2 hours ago, Karger said:

I do wonder what Ishar's blade does though.  The bondsmith powers that come from there respective spren are amazingly powerful but the surges of tension and adhesion are fairly limited without all of the wired spiritual stuff.

I don’t remember specifically where it is in the books, but there are several mentions of how powerful Ishar is. He made the Orders, for crying out loud 

I don’t pretend to know how, but he could do some crazy stuff 

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17 hours ago, Karger said:

I do wonder what Ishar's blade does though.  The bondsmith powers that come from there respective spren are amazingly powerful but the surges of tension and adhesion are fairly limited without all of the wired spiritual stuff.

What makes you think that the Honorblade wouldn't grant the Spiritual powers as well?  

Edited by Scion of the Mists
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32 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

What makes you think that the Honorblade wouldn't grant the Spiritual powers as well?  

Nothing I am just wondering what kind of spiritual powers it gives.

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My only nitpick, is Brandon would consider the Heralds members of their respective orders. WoB below:

 

Cemci

Have we-- I think you mentioned in a previous signing that we'd already met one member of every Order of the Knights Radiant.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, I think you have.

Cemci

My question is, have we met two Edgedancers? And is one of the Dustbringers a viewpoint character?

Brandon Sanderson

One of the Dustbringers is eventually a point-of-view character.

Cemci

Haven't been yet?

Brandon Sanderson

No, not yet, I don't think. But it depends if you count the Heralds as members of their order.

Cemci

I don't.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, see I would, because they're kind of heads of their Order. If you don't count them you have not met some from every Order.

Cemci

Have we met someone from the Dustbringers?

Brandon Sanderson

Well-- Dustbringers are really complicated. Really complicated. So that's the weird one. Okay? So let's shelve that one. You'll see why it's really weird later on.

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4 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

My only nitpick, is Brandon would consider the Heralds members of their respective orders. WoB below:

Not exactly true.

4 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

No, not yet, I don't think. But it depends if you count the Heralds as members of their order.

He says some people could consider Heralds members of their order not that he personally does.

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9 minutes ago, Karger said:

Not exactly true.

He says some people could consider Heralds members of their order not that he personally does.

Please re-read the quote again. I had bolded it for ease, but now I will now highlight it on top of that. He asked if Cemci would consider the heralds members. Cemci said they wouldn't. Brandon then says but he would:

 

Brandon Sanderson

No, not yet, I don't think. But it depends if you count the Heralds as members of their order.

Cemci

I don't.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, see I would, because they're kind of heads of their Order. If you don't count them you have not met some from every Order

Edited by Pathfinder
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1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

Please re-read the quote again. I had bolded it for ease, but now I will now highlight it on top of that. He asked if Cemci would consider the heralds members. Cemci said they wouldn't. Brandon then says but he would:

Wow.  My single minded focus has taken to new levels.  Please accept my apologies.

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