Oltux72

Silence serving venison

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Posted (edited)

So a few things I am going on recollection so I would have to pull up the quotes to be sure, but if I recall correctly.....

1. You can live in a town without being surrounded by silver. Many places do exactly that. The shades cannot walk right through solid objects (if i recall correctly there was a back and forth over that awhile back, and the sentence "through the trees" meant to me travel, not actually phasing through the trees). The issue with living without a silver circle is during the day, it is almost impossible to see shades, so you have no idea how many could have wandered in when going from outside the gates to inside, or outside the house to inside. Silence's place was so beloved because it was guaranteed safety due to the silver circles. 

2. I do not believe deer is a luxury because otherwise every single individual would have to be a vegetarian/vegan. Deer are abundant in a forest without any natural predators (which went extinct because they cannot learn the rules and work with them like humans can). 

3. If I recall correctly the spilling blood rule was spilling blood in violence. Now as to the comment about her going back for the corpse in the forest, personally I think it is because cutting off a human head is sweaty, rough, loud work. Not the kind of thing you want to do when shades who have recently been riled up are moving around. And Silence has said, you never ever assume you are safe. You always take full precautions in everything you do, even when you don't have to. The landlord being a prime example. he thought he was well safe behind the barriers and had no problem shedding blood, yet he didn't know that Silence had a pocket shade. 

 

But again, going on recollection and its been awhile since I read it. Will try to look up stuff to answer better later

 

edit: additional thought, going to need to confirm this, but weren't these rules inspired by the rules for the sabbath or some other religious rite? So when Brandon says butchering at the right time and the right way, could mean you can shed blood, but it has to be in a certain manner and time of day for it to be truly safe. Maybe we just haven't seen that process yet, and in the corpse's situation, it wasn't the right time of day and she did not have the means to do it the right way. 

 

edit 2: brief look at WoB hasn't found anything yet, so could have been a thread I read, but I will keep looking

Edited by Pathfinder
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13 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

2. I do not believe deer is a luxury because otherwise every single individual would have to be a vegetarian/vegan.

Yes. But what does that mean? You have to adapt to your environment. Casually lighting a pipe in the Forests is also not an option.

13 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Deer are abundant in a forest without any natural predators (which went extinct because they cannot learn the rules and work with them like humans can).

I doubt it. The state of the Forest looks healthy. And deer will run at night.

13 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

3. If I recall correctly the spilling blood rule was spilling blood in violence.

That is not compatible with the crossbow dropping incident. Even accidentally spilled blood would break the rules.

13 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Now as to the comment about her going back for the corpse in the forest, personally I think it is because cutting off a human head is sweaty, rough, loud work. Not the kind of thing you want to do when shades who have recently been riled up are moving around.

Then why not wait for daylight?

 

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2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes. But what does that mean? You have to adapt to your environment. Casually lighting a pipe in the Forests is also not an option.

What I mean is terming something a luxury is not only concerning the danger to get it, but the ease of access.  If something is the only way you can get meat, then the danger becomes worth it especially if it is easily accessible. Hunting animals back in the stone age without advance tools was very dangerous and led to many deaths yet it was the primary way of attaining food for a very long time

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

I doubt it. The state of the Forest looks healthy. And deer will run at night.

Finding WoB for that short story seems to be rather difficult. I could have sworn I read one that confirmed all natural predators were killed off as result. Without natural predators, deer would have no evolutionary reason to be nocturnal. Graze during the day, sleep at night 

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

That is not compatible with the crossbow dropping incident. Even accidentally spilled blood would break the rules.

That would still be in violence towards another living being. 

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Then why not wait for daylight?

 

Again I am going on recollection, when I have a chance i will re read the story today,  but wasn't it because she didnt want to leave the body just sitting there to potentially be stumbled upon by someone else to discover that she is the bounty hunter, or have someone else claim her kill (which is what nearly happened didnt it?)

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Posted (edited)

Copy pasting a bunch of quotes from my phone and then will edit with my computer below.

making my comments in blue so it is easy to tell which is a quote, and which is me talking. my version of the short story is in the compilation dangerous women, so page number won't help.

 

He grinned. “You have a bounty! Delightful. I have always wondered how you tracked them. Poke a pinhole in that, attach it to the underside of the saddle, then follow the dripping trail it leaves? Hmmm? You could probably track them a long way, kill them far from here. Keep suspicion off the little waystop?”
 
So I included this one because this shows part of the reasoning why Silence kills the way she does and leaves the corpse where she does/doesn't cut off its head. She doesn't want evidence to come back to her
 
Silence listened, then turned to face them. You could tell fortfolk by the way they refused to face the Forests. They averted their eyes, never looking into the depths. Those solemn trees covered almost every inch of this continent, those leaves shading the ground. Still. Silent. Animals lived out there, but fort surveyors declared that there were no predators. The shades had gotten those long ago, drawn by the shedding of blood.
 
This is the quote showing all predators in the forest are dead. deer and such have no fear of anything save man and given the rules, it appears traps are used instead for the most part. that comes up in a later quote below
 
“We have visitors, Aunt Silence,” Sebruki said in a cold, monotone voice. The crossbow’s winding crank sat next to her. She had managed to load the thing and cock it, all on her own. “I coated the bolt’s tip with blackblood. I did that right, didn’t I? That way, the poison will kill him for sure.” “Child . . .” Silence stepped forward. Sebruki turned the crossbow in her lap, holding it at an angle to support it, one small hand on the trigger. The point turned toward Silence. Sebruki stared ahead, eyes blank. “This won’t work, Sebruki,” Silence said, stern. “Even if you were able to lift that thing into the common room, you wouldn’t hit him—and even if you did, his men would kill us all in retribution!” “I wouldn’t mind,” Sebruki said softly. “So long as I got to kill him. So long as I pulled the trigger.” “You care nothing for us?” Silence snapped. “I take you in, give you a home, and this is your payment? You steal a weapon? You threaten me?” Sebruki blinked. “What is wrong with you?” Silence said. “You’d shed blood in this place of sanctuary? Bring the shades down upon us, beating at our protections? If they got through, they’d kill everyone under my roof! People I’ve promised safety. How dare you!” Sebruki shook, as if coming awake. Her mask broke and she dropped the crossbow. Silence heard a snap, and the catch released. She felt the bolt pass within an inch of her cheek, then break the window behind. Shadows! Had the bolt grazed Silence? Had Sebruki drawn blood? Silence reached up with a shaking hand, but blessedly felt no blood. The bolt hadn’t hit her.
 
The first reason SIlence was so concerned about the accidental firing of the arrow drawing blood was because the girl coated it in blackblood, which is lethal even if the shot itself isn't. Later Silence's daughter comes in concerned seeing the hole in the window. Silence says its ok no blood was shed. The reason was as we see later in the story, the bolt went well beyond the edge of the silver protection. If it had drawn blood, then a bloody bolt would be outside the way stop attracting shades. Silence admonishes the child because even if the way stop could hold to such a mass of shades when blood is shed in anger (quote later on), it is still foolish to risk it. No matter how safe you think you are, you always obey the rules (another quote later on)
 
“I heard it all,” Sebruki whispered. “Mother never cried out. She knew I was there. She was strong, Aunt Silence. That was why I could be strong, even when the blood came down. Soaking my hair. I heard it. I heard it all.” Silence closed her eyes, holding Sebruki tight. She herself had been the only one willing to investigate the smoking homestead. Sebruki’s father had stayed at the waystop on occasion. A good man. As good a man as was left after the Evil took Homeland, that was. In the smoldering remains of the homestead, Silence had found the corpses of a dozen people. Each family member had been slaughtered by Chesterton and his men, right down to the children. The only one left had been Sebruki, the youngest, who had been shoved into the crawl space under the floorboards in the bedroom. She’d lain there, soaked in her mother’s blood, soundless even as Silence found her. She’d only discovered the girl because Chesterton had been careful, lining the room with silver dust to protect against shades as he prepared to kill. Silence had tried to recover some of the dust that had trickled between the floorboards, and had run across eyes staring up at her through the slits. Chesterton had burned thirteen different homesteads over the last year. Over fifty people murdered. Sebruki was the only one who had escaped him.
 
We see here that Chesterton was able to lay down silver dust around a house, go in, and murder people bloody. So much blood that it trickled down the floor boards onto the child's face. So there are clearly ways to kill people in violence and still be safe, nonetheless butchering dead animals for food. 
 
No woman, not even a Forescout, looked upon shades without feeling a coldness inside of her. The shades were about during the day, of course; you just couldn’t see them. Kindle fire, draw blood, and they’d come for you even then. At night, though, they were different. Quicker to respond to infractions. At night they also responded to rapid motions, which they never did during the day.
 
Shades are about during the day, but not as trigger happy.
 
Each touch like that cost Silence money. The touch of a shade ruined silver. That was what her patrons paid for: a waystop whose boundary had not been broken in over a hundred years, with a long-standing tradition that no unwanted shades were trapped within. Peace, of a sort. The best the Forests offered.
 
This quote and another further down shows you don't have to have silver to protect where you live and still function, but the extra security makes people feel better
 
The grains grown out in Forest clearings were richer, tastier than what could be produced up in the mountains. Rabbits and turkeys caught in snares or raised in hutches could be sold for good silver.
 
Deer are not the only animals butchered and eaten. We see here rabbits and turkeys as well. 
 
Shades slid through the trees nearby, almost invisible with nothing to illuminate them. She kept her distance, but even so, she occasionally turned to see one of the things drifting past her. Stumbling into a shade could kill you, but that kind of accident was uncommon. Unless enraged, shades moved away from people who got too close, as if blown by a soft breeze. So long as you were moving slowly—and you should be—you would be all right.
 
Shows you can live among shades. Dangerous, but still possible as long as you know how to use the rules.
 
Silence slammed her hammer into his arm, causing him to scream. Then she brought it down on his face with a crunch. She ripped off her sweater as he groaned and thrashed, somehow wrapping it around his head and the hammer. “William Ann!” she screamed. “I need a bag. A bag, girl! Give me—” William Ann knelt beside her, pulling a sack over Chesterton’s head as the blood soaked through the sweater. Silence reached to the side with a frantic hand and grabbed a stone, then smashed it into the sack-covered head. The sweater muffled Chesterton’s screams, but also muffled the rock. She had to beat again and again.
 
Copied this quote because the blood was leaking enough to drench the sweater, but that by itself did not attract the shades. Then after the sweater was already soaked, they covered it with the tar lined bag
 
Blood, though . . . blood shed in anger, exposed to the open air . . . a single drop could make the shades slaughter you, and then everything else within their sight.
 
So according to this it is blood shed in anger, exposed to open air is what does it. Butchering a dead deer does not come across to me as in anger, and draining it directly into a container (for instance hanging it upside down, slitting the throat, and then covering the head and neck with a bag for the blood to drain into) prevents the shades from reacting
 
They were from the forts. The nice clothing, the way they kept looking into the Forests at the shades . . . Fortfolk for certain. Silence stepped forward, wishing she had her hammer to look at least a little threatening. That was still tied in the sack around Chesterton’s head. It would have blood on it, so she couldn’t get it out until that dried or she was in someplace very, very safe.
 
Dried blood no longer incites the shades
 
Her arms stung, weakened from having hauled the corpse so far. The corpse . . . she couldn’t lose it! No. She couldn’t think on that. The shades would have it, as warm enough flesh, soon after Red was gone. There would be no bounty. She had to focus on William Ann.
 
Second reason she didn't want to leave the corpse out. In this case the shades were riled up, but in general there is a chance a shade might wither it beyond recognition, which means no bounty
 
It had lodged into the tree after being fired from the waystop earlier in the day. She remembered facing down that bolt earlier, staring at its reflective end. Silver.
 
This is the quote showing the bolt fired by the child earlier reached beyond the safety of the boarder
 
So she went downstairs to the kitchen to think difficult thoughts. She’d lost the bounty. The shades would have had at that body; the skin would be dust, the skull blackened and ruined. She had no way to prove that she’d taken Chesterton.
 
Another quote showing about why she didn't want to leave the body for daylight
 
She licked her lip, feeling the pain of his slap. She lifted her hand to her face. A single drop of blood colored her fingertip when she pulled it away. “You expect me to be frightened?” Theopolis asked. “I know we’re safe in here.” “Fort city fool,” she whispered, then flipped the drop of blood at him. It hit him on the cheek. “Always follow the Simple Rules. Even when you think you don’t have to. And I wasn’t opening the pantry, as you thought.”
 
Silence saying how you always follow the rules, even when you don't have to. 
 
“How is it you’re still here?” Daggon asked. “I traveled all the way to Lastport. I hardly expected to find you here on my path back.” “I hired on at a homestead nearby,” said the slender-necked man. “Good work, mind you. Solid work.” “And you pay each night to stay here?” “I like it. It feels peaceful. The homesteads don’t have good silver protection. They just . . . let the shades move about. Even inside.” The man shuddered.
 
Quote showing people living with shades without protections and existing fine. 
 
 
 
Edited by Pathfinder
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4 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

He grinned. “You have a bounty! Delightful. I have always wondered how you tracked them. Poke a pinhole in that, attach it to the underside of the saddle, then follow the dripping trail it leaves? Hmmm? You could probably track them a long way, kill them far from here. Keep suspicion off the little waystop?”

 
So I included this one because this shows part of the reasoning why Silence kills the way she does and leaves the corpse where she does/doesn't cut off its head. She doesn't want evidence to come back to her
 

She will still leave a camp site. And that is vital. If they are killed at unknown places somebody may track the last waystop they visited. If they have no need to do so, this is less likely. So she may just as well leave most of a corpse.

4 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

This is the quote showing all predators in the forest are dead. deer and such have no fear of anything save man and given the rules, it appears traps are used instead for the most part. that comes up in a later quote below

 

 

Deer, however, startle easily. And then they run.

4 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

The first reason SIlence was so concerned about the accidental firing of the arrow drawing blood was because the girl coated it in blackblood, which is lethal even if the shot itself isn't. Later Silence's daughter comes in concerned seeing the hole in the window. Silence says its ok no blood was shed. The reason was as we see later in the story, the bolt went well beyond the edge of the silver protection. If it had drawn blood, then a bloody bolt would be outside the way stop attracting shades. Silence admonishes the child because even if the way stop could hold to such a mass of shades when blood is shed in anger (quote later on), it is still foolish to risk it. No matter how safe you think you are, you always obey the rules (another quote later on)

 

 

Fair enough, but it makes the case against hunting.

4 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

We see here that Chesterton was able to lay down silver dust around a house, go in, and murder people bloody. So much blood that it trickled down the floor boards onto the child's face. So there are clearly ways to kill people in violence and still be safe, nonetheless butchering dead animals for food.

Chesterton is a wanted man with a price on his head. His standards of safety are unlikely to be universal. Still he is bound by economics. If his loot is worth less than the silver he has used up, he will go broke.

 

4 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

No woman, not even a Forescout, looked upon shades without feeling a coldness inside of her. The shades were about during the day, of course; you just couldn’t see them. Kindle fire, draw blood, and they’d come for you even then. At night, though, they were different. Quicker to respond to infractions. At night they also responded to rapid motions, which they never did during the day.

 
Shades are about during the day, but not as trigger happy.

Again, that makes the case for planning to leave the bodies where they are till dawn.

4 hours ago, Pathfinder said:
Silence slammed her hammer into his arm, causing him to scream. Then she brought it down on his face with a crunch. She ripped off her sweater as he groaned and thrashed, somehow wrapping it around his head and the hammer. “William Ann!” she screamed. “I need a bag. A bag, girl! Give me—” William Ann knelt beside her, pulling a sack over Chesterton’s head as the blood soaked through the sweater. Silence reached to the side with a frantic hand and grabbed a stone, then smashed it into the sack-covered head. The sweater muffled Chesterton’s screams, but also muffled the rock. She had to beat again and again.
 
Copied this quote because the blood was leaking enough to drench the sweater, but that by itself did not attract the shades. Then after the sweater was already soaked, they covered it with the tar lined bag

Again, this makes a case for planning to leave the bodies where they are for a few hours until at least dawn. The blood would have dried. And day time is safer in general. As Silence is well aware of that, you need to explain why she tried to carry back the whole body immediately.

4 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

So according to this it is blood shed in anger, exposed to open air is what does it. Butchering a dead deer does not come across to me as in anger, and draining it directly into a container (for instance hanging it upside down, slitting the throat, and then covering the head and neck with a bag for the blood to drain into) prevents the shades from reacting

I doubt the ghost of the deer would agree with that sentiment. And if have to point to the contradiction in that statement and the other statements. Either you keep to the Simple Rules, always, or you shed an animal's blood.

4 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Her arms stung, weakened from having hauled the corpse so far. The corpse . . . she couldn’t lose it! No. She couldn’t think on that. The shades would have it, as warm enough flesh, soon after Red was gone. There would be no bounty. She had to focus on William Ann.

 
Second reason she didn't want to leave the corpse out. In this case the shades were riled up, but in general there is a chance a shade might wither it beyond recognition, which means no bounty

While this is technically true, I have to point out that if you are carrying the corpse and enrage the Shades, there won't be a bounty either. And you would be too shady to collect the bounty.
And what is likelier to enrage the Shades, a dead body safely wrapped up and cooling down or two women walking through a dark forest toting said body?

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On 6/8/2019 at 2:17 PM, Oltux72 said:

She will still leave a camp site. And that is vital. If they are killed at unknown places somebody may track the last waystop they visited. If they have no need to do so, this is less likely. So she may just as well leave most of a corpse.

Please re-read the quotes. She didn't want to leave the corpse out because the shades could walk over the body withering it further which prevent a person from identifying the head. It is literally stated in the book

On 6/8/2019 at 2:17 PM, Oltux72 said:

Deer, however, startle easily. And then they run.

That's great. They can startle all they want during the day. Shades do not react the same way during the day. Running at night incites green eyes (earth sight according to the novel). Deer no longer have natural predators. They were wiped out by the shades. Any animals that are overly skittish would have been killed by the shades and over time learned to adapt. Baring forest creature learning to feed on blood and using their mouth as a perfect seal, predators are going to get withered just from hunting. 

On 6/8/2019 at 2:17 PM, Oltux72 said:

Fair enough, but it makes the case against hunting.

Traps are still considered hunting, and there are snares that trap animals alive, maim them, or kill them outright. Shades go for who shed the blood first. No one actively shed the blood with anger, no source for the shades to attack.

On 6/8/2019 at 2:17 PM, Oltux72 said:

Chesterton is a wanted man with a price on his head. His standards of safety are unlikely to be universal. Still he is bound by economics. If his loot is worth less than the silver he has used up, he will go broke.

Standards or not, he was in the forest, and slaughtered multiple families. Enough blood to trickle down the floor boards and cover the little girl. Yet he and his gang were fine. They knew the rules and how to operate within them. If chesterton can kill people with impunity in the middle of the forest, then joe schmo can butcher deer. All that matters is you keep to the rules.

On 6/8/2019 at 2:17 PM, Oltux72 said:

 

Again, that makes the case for planning to leave the bodies where they are till dawn.

And again she was concerned the shades would wither it to beyond recognition. I am not sure if I put in the quote, but Silence has a place away from the waystop she stores the corpses till she is ready to behead them, and collect her bounties

On 6/8/2019 at 2:17 PM, Oltux72 said:

Again, this makes a case for planning to leave the bodies where they are for a few hours until at least dawn. The blood would have dried. And day time is safer in general. As Silence is well aware of that, you need to explain why she tried to carry back the whole body immediately.

If the blood was not properly secured, then it doesn't matter that it will eventually be dried, the shades will be running around withering the corpse. If someone stumbles across the corpse, there goes her bounty. if there are any signs left, people can figure out it was silence's  waystop that the person was at last (a fear silence mentions). 

On 6/8/2019 at 2:17 PM, Oltux72 said:

I doubt the ghost of the deer would agree with that sentiment. And if have to point to the contradiction in that statement and the other statements. Either you keep to the Simple Rules, always, or you shed an animal's blood.

Not sure what a ghost  of a deer has anything to do with it. I re-read the short story and there is no mention of animal shades. You can keep to the simple rules, and still shed blood. You just have to do it the right way, as shown in the quotes I posted

On 6/8/2019 at 2:17 PM, Oltux72 said:

While this is technically true, I have to point out that if you are carrying the corpse and enrage the Shades, there won't be a bounty either. And you would be too shady to collect the bounty.
And what is likelier to enrage the Shades, a dead body safely wrapped up and cooling down or two women walking through a dark forest toting said body?

If the blood leaks out, the shades will attack and wither the body. if the body sits out and someone finds it, silence is in danger and out of a bounty. 

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15 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Please re-read the quotes. She didn't want to leave the corpse out because the shades could walk over the body withering it further which prevent a person from identifying the head. It is literally stated in the book

That was after she regained the body. It does not explain the initial planning.

15 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

That's great. They can startle all they want during the day. Shades do not react the same way during the day. Running at night incites green eyes (earth sight according to the novel). Deer no longer have natural predators. They were wiped out by the shades. Any animals that are overly skittish would have been killed by the shades and over time learned to adapt. Baring forest creature learning to feed on blood and using their mouth as a perfect seal, predators are going to get withered just from hunting.

That still does not explain how a Forest can grow if all herbivores can reproduce unchecked.

15 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Standards or not, he was in the forest, and slaughtered multiple families. Enough blood to trickle down the floor boards and cover the little girl. Yet he and his gang were fine. They knew the rules and how to operate within them. If chesterton can kill people with impunity in the middle of the forest, then joe schmo can butcher deer. All that matters is you keep to the rules.

Ehm, no. Chesterton had the silver it took to keep the Shades out. That is a possibility, but it limits you to targets that are worth the expenditure.

15 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

If the blood was not properly secured, then it doesn't matter that it will eventually be dried, the shades will be running around withering the corpse.

If the blood is not properly secured, carrying the corpse will not help you either. You will just die next to it.
She could just wait or ward it with silver. She does not do so because she cannot be seen with the corpses. She could avoid that by cutting off the heads. A head will fit into a sack. She does not plan to do so. Therefore cutting off a head in the Forest is suicidal. Hence butchering an animal in the forest is suicidal.

15 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

If someone stumbles across the corpse, there goes her bounty. if there are any signs left, people can figure out it was silence's  waystop that the person was at last (a fear silence mentions).

People can anyway. You just have to ask where they were seen last.
Again, do the logic. Silence tracks those people for a long time. Why? So that they do not vanish near her waystop. If they vanished without a trace, that all makes no sense. Nobody would know where they vanished, just when. She could give them poison which would make them drop dead within a short time after they have gone. On the contrary Silence depends on their camps eventually being found, far away from her waystop.

15 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Not sure what a ghost  of a deer has anything to do with it. I re-read the short story and there is no mention of animal shades.

If you die by withering, you become a shade. The Shades have killed the predators. Hence they are shady now.

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

That was after she regained the body. It does not explain the initial planning.

The original plan was to hide the bodies in the cold cellar by the stable:

 

"She trudged, exhausted, back to the waystop and hid Chesterton's corpse in the cold cellar out behind the stable, beside where she'd put theopoli's remains. She hiked back into the kitchen"

Quote

That still does not explain how a Forest can grow if all herbivores can reproduce unchecked.

Silence's mother was among the first to settle "hell". We do not know for how long "hell" was the way it was. As it is a short story and our only peek at this world, there is going to be a lot of info we just do not know yet. 

Quote

Ehm, no. Chesterton had the silver it took to keep the Shades out. That is a possibility, but it limits you to targets that are worth the expenditure.

That is conjecture on your part. In the book, and i will quote this as well, he killed multiple people in multiple houses. The child's (I keep calling her child cause it is difficult to spell her name) home was not the only one in that village that he did that too. 

 

"I heard it all" Sebruki whispered "Mother never cried out. She knew I was there. She was strong Aunt Silence. That was why I could be strong, even when the blood came down. Soaking my hair. I heard it. I heard it all"

She herself had been the only one willing to investigate the smoking homestead. Sebruki's father had stayed at the waystop on occasion. A good man. As good a man as was left after the Evil took Homeland, that was.

In the smoldering remains of the homestead, SIlence had found the corpses of a dozen people. Each family member had been slaughtered by Chesterton and his men, right down to the children. The only one left had been Subruki, the youngest, who had been shoved into the crawl space under the floorboards in the bedroom. 

She'd lain there, soaked in her mother's blood, soundless even as Silence found her. She'd only discovered the girl because Chesterton had been careful, lining the room with silver dust to protect against shades as he prepared to kill. Silence had tried to recover some of the dust that had tricked between the floorboards, and had run across eyes staring up at her through the slits.

Chesterton had burned thirteen different homesteads over the last year. Over fifty people murdered. Sebruki was the only one who had escaped him.

Quote

If the blood is not properly secured, carrying the corpse will not help you either. You will just die next to it.
She could just wait or ward it with silver. She does not do so because she cannot be seen with the corpses. She could avoid that by cutting off the heads. A head will fit into a sack. She does not plan to do so. Therefore cutting off a head in the Forest is suicidal. Hence butchering an animal in the forest is suicidal.

She does not cut the head off in the forest. She brings it to her cellar and stores it to such time that she can return, and behead it there. 

Quote

People can anyway. You just have to ask where they were seen last.
Again, do the logic. Silence tracks those people for a long time. Why? So that they do not vanish near her waystop. If they vanished without a trace, that all makes no sense. Nobody would know where they vanished, just when. She could give them poison which would make them drop dead within a short time after they have gone. On the contrary Silence depends on their camps eventually being found, far away from her waystop.

I am confused by what you are saying here. Sounds like we are in complete agreement. Silence tracks them away from the waystop. Kills them. Hides them. Then turns in the bounty later so she cannot be connected to their death. 

Quote

If you die by withering, you become a shade. The Shades have killed the predators. Hence they are shady now.

 

Could you point to me where in the short story it mentioned shade animals? Because I re-read it, and I didn't see any mention whatsoever. Only people

Edited by Pathfinder
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On 6/10/2019 at 9:41 AM, Oltux72 said:

That still does not explain how a Forest can grow if all herbivores can reproduce unchecked.

Well first of all humans hunt them.  Second of all I believe that many herbivores become territorial or agressive if forced to live to close with others of their own species.  Both of these will lead to blood being shed and that will keep the population stable.

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On 6/10/2019 at 8:47 AM, Pathfinder said:

Could you point to me where in the short story it mentioned shade animals? Because I re-read it, and I didn't see any mention whatsoever. Only people

I don't recall Shade animals either, myself.

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9 hours ago, RShara said:

I don't recall Shade animals either, myself.

I wonder if it has to do with people having a stronger cognitive presence or effect on the cognitive realm? Because it does mention that shades that have been that way longer begin to lose their form, and look less cohesive. So overtime they are unable to maintain the shape possibly because the awareness of who they were degrades over time? Silence's grandmother is recent enough that she remembers SIlence. Perhaps animals could be turned into shades, but because they lack that sapience, they degrade so quickly, they do not last, and are never seen?

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On 6/10/2019 at 4:47 PM, Pathfinder said:

The original plan was to hide the bodies in the cold cellar by the stable:

 

"She trudged, exhausted, back to the waystop and hid Chesterton's corpse in the cold cellar out behind the stable, beside where she'd put theopoli's remains. She hiked back into the kitchen"

Yes, meaning she always meant to take the whole body home. Why? For the bounty that is not necessary. The head alone would do.

 

On 6/10/2019 at 4:47 PM, Pathfinder said:

Silence's mother was among the first to settle "hell". We do not know for how long "hell" was the way it was. As it is a short story and our only peek at this world, there is going to be a lot of info we just do not know yet.

At least 100 years. Too long for a healthy forest. And that raises the next question. How do deer avoid shades during the day? As far as we can tell random animals do not repel shades. Silence specifically keeps pigs.

On 6/10/2019 at 4:47 PM, Pathfinder said:

That is conjecture on your part. In the book, and i will quote this as well, he killed multiple people in multiple houses. The child's (I keep calling her child cause it is difficult to spell her name) home was not the only one in that village that he did that too. 

"She'd only discovered the girl because Chesterton had been careful, lining the room with silver dust to protect against shades as he prepared to kill."

On 6/10/2019 at 4:47 PM, Pathfinder said:

She does not cut the head off in the forest. She brings it to her cellar and stores it to such time that she can return, and behead it there.

Exactly. Why? Does she like carrying large load through nocturnal forests? Hardly. She does so, because it is the only option.

On 6/10/2019 at 4:47 PM, Pathfinder said:

I am confused by what you are saying here. Sounds like we are in complete agreement. Silence tracks them away from the waystop. Kills them. Hides them. Then turns in the bounty later so she cannot be connected to their death.

Yes, the point was the connection between her way of killing and butchering animals.

On 6/10/2019 at 4:47 PM, Pathfinder said:

Could you point to me where in the short story it mentioned shade animals? Because I re-read it, and I didn't see any mention whatsoever. Only people

The book only says the shades kill. We have however this:
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/9-calamity-philadelphia-signing/#e7445

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Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, RShara said:

I don't recall Shade animals either, myself.

Brandon has said that there are animal Shades, but given how weakly aware the human Shades are compared to other Cognitive Shadows and how they do seem to fade over time, I imagine they don't last that long. The fact that Silence doesn't even mention them suggests that they're very rare and not a matter of serious concern.

7 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

At least 100 years. Too long for a healthy forest. And that raises the next question. How do deer avoid shades during the day? As far as we can tell random animals do not repel shades. Silence specifically keeps pigs.

Given that the Forests of Hell cover a large part of an entire continent, I don't see how reduced predation is going to lead to possible herbivore overfeeding having a visibile impact in only a century. Also, you have no way of demonstrating that Shades don't retreat from other living beings during the day, all we know for certain is that they do drift away from living humans. That's not enough to say conclusively that they don't retreat from animals.

Edited by Weltall
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3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes, meaning she always meant to take the whole body home. Why? For the bounty that is not necessary. The head alone would do.

Already asked and I already answered. If that doesn't work for you, then guess at the end of the day you will have to wait till the next Threnody novel/short story to get your answers

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

At least 100 years. Too long for a healthy forest. And that raises the next question. How do deer avoid shades during the day? As far as we can tell random animals do not repel shades. Silence specifically keeps pigs.

100 years? Her grandmother settled "hell". Silence said her grandmother was among the first to settle. Her grandmother was alive long enough for Silence to know her and grow up with her. That doesn't sound like 100 years to me. As to how do deer handle the shades during the day, again already asked and answered. Shades drift away during the day. They do not react to running. There are whole settlements open to shades where people go about their normal business among the shades no problem. Again quoted for your reference already. 

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

"She'd only discovered the girl because Chesterton had been careful, lining the room with silver dust to protect against shades as he prepared to kill."

Exactly. Why? Does she like carrying large load through nocturnal forests? Hardly. She does so, because it is the only option.

Again already asked and again already answered. I wish you luck with your....not theory? I guess I wish you luck finding the answers you seek?

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes, the point was the connection between her way of killing and butchering animals.

And again, i feel I have covered all the issues brought forward with quotes. If they don't work for you, then i wish you luck when further novels/short stories come out that will hopefully satisfy you. 

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

The book only says the shades kill. We have however this:
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/9-calamity-philadelphia-signing/#e7445

Weltall says what I was pretty much thinking

3 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Brandon has said that there are animal Shades, but given how weakly aware the human Shades are compared to other Cognitive Shadows and how they do seem to fade over time, I imagine they don't last that long. The fact that Silence doesn't even mention them suggests that they're very rare and not a matter of serious concern.

Great minds think alike!

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20 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Given that the Forests of Hell cover a large part of an entire continent, I don't see how reduced predation is going to lead to possible herbivore overfeeding having a visibile impact in only a century.

Exponential growth without predation. Deer can reproduce just one year after birth. Something must be keeping their populations in check. And what about rodents and other small animals?

20 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Also, you have no way of demonstrating that Shades don't retreat from other living beings during the day, all we know for certain is that they do drift away from living humans. That's not enough to say conclusively that they don't retreat from animals.

True.

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