Godmetal Alloys

[Karger]

I believe(correct me if I am wrong) that each of the three godmetals that we know about (atium, lerasium, and harmonium) can be alloyed with each of the existing 16 metals for various effects.  What do you think they all do in terms of Allomancy, and Feruchemy?

We know that atium and gold show other people's pasts and I believe there is a WoB stating that all Atium alloys had temporal effects allomanticaly.

[Aluminum]

Lerasium alloys might give the burner a large increase in the alloys power. Larger then if they had burned pure lesarium but limited to one metal 

[Halyo_Alex]

1. Atium alloys seem to flip the internal/external-ness of the metal it's alloyed with (gold becomes external and shows other people's pasts instead of your own) so Electrum Atium would show you other people's futures. ...wait a minute, that sounds like pure Atium. Interesting.

2. Lerasium alloys would turn you into a misting of the alloyed metal, but Lerasium and it's alloys also have a "proper" allomantic effect (which I believe in Lerasium's case is that you can burn it for any allomantic effect, as if it was any metal)

3. Harmonium explodes when it touches water, so... Don't eat it. Maybe you can Feruchemy with it, but your sweat can set it off enough to burn your skin. You're better off making a Primer Cube and using that to put your allomantic and feruchemic effects at range (Or making an ultra Hemalurgy spike that simultaneously spikes multiple people in a radius when Pushed into someone from far away).

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

3. Harmonium explodes when it touches water, so... Don't eat it. Maybe you can Feruchemy with it, but your sweat can set it off enough to burn your skin. You're better off making a Primer Cube and using that to put your allomantic and feruchemic effects at range (Or making an ultra Hemalurgy spike that simultaneously spikes multiple people in a radius when Pushed into someone from far away).

Alloys often have different properties then their component metals so eating an alloy of say gold and harmonium may be OK.  Via your pattern do you think it would give you ferring abilities?

Edited May 30, 2019 by Karger

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

We know that atium and gold show other people's pasts and I believe there is a WoB stating that all Atium alloys had temporal effects allomanticaly

Yes, but that tells us nothing about its feruchemical properties. For atium itself feruchemy and allomancy show little connection.
 

1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

1. Atium alloys seem to flip the internal/external-ness of the metal it's alloyed with (gold becomes external and shows other people's pasts instead of your own) so Electrum Atium would show you other people's futures. ...wait a minute, that sounds like pure Atium. Interesting.

That is dubious. You may see it also like gold directing the power of atium into the past.

[Karger]

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Yes, but that tells us nothing about its feruchemical properties. For atium itself feruchemy and allomancy show little connection.

Never said it did.  I was just noting what we do know.

[+Oltux72]

Just now, Karger said:

Never said it did.  I was just noting what we do know.

Sorry, that was not intended as criticism. The relationship between feruchemy and allomancy has overlaps. Tin and pewter are very close. Zinc and aluminium show a certain similarity. If you consider how Cosmere healing actually works, even gold makes some sense.
But others, like cadmium, seem totally unrelated. Thus I would love to know what malatium stores feruchemically. Is it possible that Sazed failed because it stores something Sazed did not have? Could malatium store external healing?

[Halyo_Alex]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Thus I would love to know what malatium stores feruchemically. Is it possible that Sazed failed because it stores something Sazed did not have? Could malatium store external healing?

I have a slightly dubious hypothesis that Atium alloys feruchemically are all weird, and actually store the attribute by drawing it out of OTHER people (with a net loss, because they're mixed with Atium, the god metal of Ruin) So Malatium would steal someone else's health and fill your metalmind, which you could then tap to heal yourself. in theory.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Alloys often have different properties then their component metals so eating an alloy of say gold and harmonium may be OK.  Via your pattern do you think it would give you ferring abilities?

Perhaps, if the alloy was say 90% gold 10% harmonium, that could be safe. The thing is about Harmonium is that it's Spiritually at odds with itself due to the mixture of Intents, and that's what causes it's strange physical properties.

[+Harrycrapper]

3 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

1. Atium alloys seem to flip the internal/external-ness of the metal it's alloyed with (gold becomes external and shows other people's pasts instead of your own) so Electrum Atium would show you other people's futures. ...wait a minute, that sounds like pure Atium. Interesting.

I seem to remember somewhere that Brandon said that "Atium" as we know it in Mistborn Era 1 is not pure, so you may have cracked exactly what it is, an alloy of Electrum. 

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Harrycrapper said:

I seem to remember somewhere that Brandon said that "Atium" as we know it in Mistborn Era 1 is not pure, so you may have cracked exactly what it is, an alloy of Electrum. 

Atium is not impure it came directly from the pits, which pulled Ruin's power from his Perpendicularity. 

As to the OP. We have confirmation that Lerasium alloys make you a misting of the corresponding metal. 

Quote

Chaos

I really want to know what the last two metals are. I always thought the bead Elend ate was one of them, but perhaps they are just things of Preservation, not meant to be understood

Brandon Sanderson

The metal chunk that Elend ate is intended to be something of a mystery. Much like atium, actually. Suffice it to say that atium isn't, and never was, what people thought it was.

I intended Allomancy to be much like a real science. People investigate and put things into boxes, trying to describe and understand the world around them. That doesn't mean they always get things right, however.

Let me say this, as I don't want to spoil too much. If that metal Elend ate were fused into specific alloys with certain metals, it could have instead created Mistings of each of the different Allomantic powers. Atium's abilities are not entirely explored yet either.

Footnote: The metal in question in this exchange is Lerasium
Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)  

And Atium alloys are all Temporal or Mental powers. 

Quote

Maru Nui

What would an atium-electrum alloy do in Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

The alloys of atium have various temporal effects.

Footnote: The Allomancy chart poster reveals that atium alloys have various temporal and mental effects.
Tor.com Q&A with Brandon Sanderson (Jan. 10, 2011)

As to Harmonium... While it should theoretically have alloys, I'm not sure attempting to make them would be entirely safe. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Calderis

[Karger]

8 minutes ago, Calderis said:

As to Harmonium... While it should theoretically have alloys, I'm not sure attempting to make them would be entirely safe. 

It is reactive but plenty of reactive substances can be safely heated under the right circumstances provided the correct steps are taken.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Karger

[Calderis]

Just now, Karger said:

Why mental powers he said Temporal no?

You apparently ignored the footnote. 

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

You apparently ignored the footnote. 

Thank you

[lu-tze]

Is Harmonium itself an alloy? As Harmony consists of the combined powers of ruin and preservation; could one have 'created' Harmonium as an Atium+Lerasium alloy? 

(WoB says no; but posting it in case anyone happened to wonder):

 

Quote

Questioner

If I were to alloy atium and lerasium, would I get harmonium? Or is harmonium different after the Shards combined?

Brandon Sanderson

It's different after the Shards combined.

Questioner

If I was to take harmonium and separate it out through distillation, would I get lerasium and atium or something that functions similarly?

Brandon Sanderson

No, you would-- It actually has become a different--

Questioner

Can't be split?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. I mean, you could find a way, but you're not going to get it through normal, mechanical means.

Skyward Houston signing (Nov. 19, 2018)

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/374/#e12145

[+Oltux72]

8 hours ago, Calderis said:

As to the OP. We have confirmation that Lerasium alloys make you a misting of the corresponding metal.

Technically the WOB leaves room open. It supposes that a muggle burn it. What if a mistborn did so? Could a misting do it? If you are an atium misting, can you burn malatium? How about gold mistings?

8 hours ago, Calderis said:

And Atium alloys are all Temporal or Mental powers.

"And"  or "or"? Technically malatium grants a mental power. You see something that is not real. As the Cosmere has a distinction between animate and inanimate there may well be an alloy of atium that shows you the past of an object. The alloy of tin and atium would be a suspect.

8 hours ago, Calderis said:

As to Harmonium... While it should theoretically have alloys, I'm not sure attempting to make them would be entirely safe. 

You would do so in a vacuum chamber or in an inert atmosphere (argon or SF6 for example). Era 2 Scadrial has the level of technology to liquify and distill air.

[Calderis]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Technically the WOB leaves room open. It supposes that a muggle burn it. What if a mistborn did so? Could a misting do it?

Lerasium is additive, so a Mistborn would become stronger in the one metal, and lerasium being lerasium would still allow anyone to burn it. That's why it allows dual mistings which is only otherwise possible via Hemalurgy. 

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Could you become a double misting if you took two lerasium/metal alloy beads (I think the example was iron and steel) at the same time?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Footnote: This contradicts what Brandon has previously established, that there is no canonical way of being able to burn more than one metal without being Mistborn or using Hemalurgy.
Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

Quote

Shardlet

If Vin and Elend hypothetically each blindly ingested equivalently sized beads of lerasium, would Vin be a stronger Mistborn than Elend, or would they be equal?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Vin would be stronger. It is additive, not just an overwrite.

Firefight Seattle UBooks signing (Jan. 6, 2015)

Quote

If you are an atium misting, can you burn malatium? How about gold mistings?

I don't see why you would? Save for lerasium, which seems to be a property of that metal itself, none of the metals function that way. 

 

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

You would do so in a vacuum chamber or in an inert atmosphere (argon or SF6 for example). Era 2 Scadrial has the level of technology to liquify and distill air.

The reaction when Harmonium explodes is not a purely chemical reaction. It draws power from the Spiritual Realm to amplify its energy release. 

We have no way of knowing what could trigger that, and seeing as state changes can cause an energy transfer, until they are able to test this in world or someone asks Brandon (and he actually answers) we don't know if it is possible to Alloy Harmonium without triggering it's non-physical reactive properties. 

[Aluminum]

I don't think it would be that hard to burn Harmonium. All you have to do is surround the harmonium with another metal and swallow. The harmonium shouldn't touch water and you can burn it. Just be careful not to burn the surrounding metal first

[Calderis]

39 minutes ago, Aluminum said:

I don't think it would be that hard to burn Harmonium. All you have to do is surround the harmonium with another metal and swallow. The harmonium shouldn't touch water and you can burn it. Just be careful not to burn the surrounding metal first

Doesn't work that way unfortunately. To burn it you'd need to burn the surrounding metal. 

It's the same thing that Zane tricked Vin with the atium coated ball of lead. It seemed like atium until the atium burned away. 

[Aluminum]

8 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Doesn't work that way unfortunately. To burn it you'd need to burn the surrounding metal. 

It's the same thing that Zane tricked Vin with the atium coated ball of lead. It seemed like atium until the atium burned away. 

Well Mistborn can't burn lead so I don't understand how this would correspond. If you can burn metals in your stomach I imagine that you can burn all metals regardless of where they are

[Arith Matic]

1 hour ago, Aluminum said:

I don't think it would be that hard to burn Harmonium. All you have to do is surround the harmonium with another metal and swallow. The harmonium shouldn't touch water and you can burn it. Just be careful not to burn the surrounding metal first

Actually, even the allomantic metals have to be the correct alloy and composition, or else they have a possibility of not burning.  Like an alternate version of pewter that uses silver instead of lead, like most modern pewter.  And since lead is not an allomantically burnable metal, it would have to sit in the stomach.  Even though something like pewter contains lead, it is a different metal at the point where a misting/mistborn swallows it.

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Aluminum said:

Well Mistborn can't burn lead so I don't understand how this would correspond. If you can burn metals in your stomach I imagine that you can burn all metals regardless of where they are

They can burn lead. Mistborn can burn all metals. Burning one that's not allomantic is just harmful to them. This is the first thing that Kel teaches Vin. 

And as to the way this functions... 

Quote

Lurcher

Can you burn a metal wrapped in another metal, if both are Allomantic? Like, the inner metal, could you just burn that before?

Brandon Sanderson

No, you're gonna have to work your way through the outer one.

Lurcher

And what if it was a non-Allomantic metal? The same?

Brandon Sanderson

It's gonna depend on how thick it is, and stuff. But I would say, if you wrap it in a non-Allomantic metal, that's not good for getting to the metal. It's viable, but it just depends on how thick it is, and things like that. Like, sometimes things have been plated to keep the access to the metal off, but usually you would want to do that in aluminum, to make sure.

Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 22, 2017)

If anything, this implies the opposite, that you'd want to wrap the harmonium in a purely non-allomantic metal that somehow allows access to the metal but can't provide a power itself (which is weird considering the way Mistborn work, but whatever.)

[+ILuvHats]

Duralumin might work for burning harmonium. You coat the harmonium in some duralumin, then you swallow a bunch of extra duralumin so that you can sustain the burn after the coating has been burned through. It depends on how quickly the duralumin burns other metals compared to how quickly harmonium reacts with water.

Another possible way to burn harmonium would be surgically implanting it in someone's bone. And yes, I realize there's water everywhere in your body. The estimates I found placed the water content of the average bone at around 30%. However, the bone mineral layer has a much lower water content than that (though I couldn't find an estimate during my quick google search), so it might be possible to implant some harmonium there. You'd still have to coat the harmonium in some dissolvable substance for the duration of the surgery and the time it takes for the patient to recover from anesthesia. But hopefully, whoever has the harmonium inside them could wait for the moment the coating starts dissolving and try to burn the harmonium before the it comes in contact with water diffusing through the mineral bone layer.

[Karger]

40 minutes ago, ILuvHats said:

Duralumin might work for burning harmonium. You coat the harmonium in some duralumin, then you swallow a bunch of extra duralumin so that you can sustain the burn after the coating has been burned through. It depends on how quickly the duralumin burns other metals compared to how quickly harmonium reacts with water.

I think I like this idea better.  Especially if you shape the Duralumin so that you can keep burning it along with the harmonium making it burn instantly and allow you to not die.