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The 4th Ideal of the Windrunners


The Wanderer

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There has been a lot of theories on this, so I'm sorry if this is either completely wrong or said already, but I just had some thoughts.

We already know Kaladin has problems with accepting the deaths of those he tried protect, which we see multiple times throughout the books

We can also theorize that this is a big problem for not just Kaladin, but for other Windrunners as well, judging from the gemstone entry from the unnamed Windrunner, who states that he is unsure that he can progress along the Ideals, because he can't get past something about the fourth ideal.

He says that he is supposed to help people, which gives a clue that the next Ideal has something to do with not helping some people

One key thing we see with Kaladin is his recklessness when it comes to protecting people. he constantly risks his own life so that others can survive, such as Bridge 4, the Singer's human prisoners in the highstorm, trying to fight a chasmfiend alone and with no weapon but a broken spear just to give Shallan a chance of making it back to the warcamps. we even see it when he volunteers to join the army, just to try and find and help Tien.

With these three points:

1. Kaladin cannot put the deaths of those he failed to protect past him.

2. Windrunners in general seem to have a difficult moral decision to process with the 4th Ideal

3. Kaladin is reckless to the point of self-destruction when it comes to protecting others

Based off of these points, this is what I think the fourth Ideal (at least when it comes to Kaladin) will be:

"Before I can save others, I will first save myself"

This would force Windrunners to get other the deaths of those they failed in the past, but would also mean coming to terms with the simple fact that they just can't save everyone.

This, alongside Kaladin's depression, could explain why Kaladin and the unnamed Windrunner had so much trouble stating it.

Please tell me if you agree or disagree, or why

Thanks for reading!

Edited by The Wanderer
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Not bad and well reasoned.  My current belief is that Kaladin's fourth ideal will be somewhat closer to "I will hold others responsible for doing the work I cannot" or "I will trust others to protect those I can't."  My assumptions are based on the responsibilities of a leader.  A leader must except responsibility for the well being of his followers but he must also be willing to hold others responsible.  This is called delegation and a leader does have to learn it to be effective.

(and yes none men can be leaders but we are discussing Kaladin)

Edited by Karger
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7 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

This, alongside Kaladin's depression, could explain why Kaladin and the unnamed Windrunner had so much trouble stating it.

Please tell me if you agree or disagree, or why

The problem with that is the recording in the gem. It specifically talks about "wanting" to protect everybody. Not the grim acceptance of practicality to live and fight another day, but that there are people you should just not want to protect. Now this could be just imprecise phrasing on the part of the ancient Windrunner. But then we saw Kaladin's crisis and his failure to swear the 4th oath were not caused by a situation where he disregarded his own safety. It was caused by people killing each other.

He wanted them to stop. Yet in a war you cannot just stop killing your enemies. If you alone do that, you lose. If both sides do it, the status quo is kept and one side loses. The Knights Radiant exist ultimately to contain and fight Odium and his forces. The Singers did not deserve to die. You cannot blame slaves for revolting, indeed they may be worthy of praise. Yet they are fighting for Odium.

You can take the moral viewpoint. That is what the Skybreakers are doing. Or you can take another viewpoint. But that will require you to abandon justice as your ultimate guidance. Honor being about keeping your oath no matter what, it looks like if you swear allegiance, your orders will take priority over justice.

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I am rather to something like 'I will not try to save everyone' (because of the moment he failed to swear it - and I only hope I remember correctly when it was) or a personal favourite 'I will live though other have died'. Although I also like those about trusting others mentioned above, I feel like it's actually a huge problem of Windrunners. 

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“You have to learn when to care, son,” Lirin said softly. “And when to let go. You’ll see. I had similar problems when I was younger. You’ll grow calluses.” 

'And this is a good thing? Kal thought, another tear trickling down his cheek. You have to learn when to care … and when to let go. …' 

WoK ch 20

 

'You have to learn when to care. … As if he could choose. Banish it, like snuffing a lantern. Kaladin bowed beneath the weight. I should have saved him, I should have saved him, I should have saved him.' 

... 

'You were wrong, Father, he thought. You said I’d learn to deal with the deaths. And yet here I am. Years later. Same problem.' 

WoK ch 57

 

My personal theory is that it'll be along the lines of "I'll protect those I can, and abandon those I cannot." 

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My theory is that the fourth ideal will have something to do with leadership or taking charge. The divine attributes are protecting/leading. I think that the first two paths were protecting. “I will protect those who cannot protect themselves.” and “I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.” 

The fourth oath probably deals with taking charge and responsiblity- for protecting others. “I will take responsibility for the protection of others, but let them go when I can’t.” Kaladin has issues with realizing that he can’t protect everyone. I think that’s an issue that many wind runners struggle with, and that’s why the fourth oath is so hard to swear. What seems to attract honorspren is a willingness to self-sacrifice for the good of others. But in Kaladin, this translates to self-sacrifice to the point of self-destruction. 

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